List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[CarmenSandiego]

You've obviously not seen much of Collins play, have you? He's a great KPD and alongside Weiters would be an elite 1-2. Fwiw Weiters is only 195cm.

Though it's a moot point as I highly doubt he'd leave the Suns and they certainly aren't pushing him out the door after winning the last 2 BnF and was in the AA squad last yr.

Either way, he's quality.

Was plucked as a mature age from Werribee, wasn't he?

Can't be that hard to find another one, so many opportunities missed in the state/local leagues.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I don't think talks being put on hold has anything to do with the money.

He knows the offer from St Kilda, the money was always there and he's known that the entire season. If the money was determinative he wouldn't have started talks in the first place.

Carlton's offer is about more than money, it's about getting paid a good wage but being part of a team that is searching for success. The reason he's put contract talks on hold is because he's having concerns about the prospects of achieving success at this point in time. Has to be.

Agree - was thinking the same thing

I think it’s about Carlton’s form but more so what is happening with the coach and the instability around that.

 

[Accidental genius]

What do you mean by this?

European soccer clubs can’t trade contracted players and when a players contract runs out they can choose to play anywhere they want, regardless of how many years played.

Yeah you are right - for some reason I thought players contracts being terminated was a bit more common but probably not

quick google search - can clubs terminate players contracts in European soccer...

"clubs in European soccer can terminate player contracts, but it's not a straightforward process and often depends on the circumstances. Contracts can be terminated upon expiry, by mutual agreement, or with "just cause". "Just cause" generally refers to a situation where one party has breached the contract or there are other serious reasons that warrant termination"

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

There is no 'fair price' to be paid - there should be no RFA or FA nonsense - if a player wants out - then their manager can organise what is fair compensation - decided by the Club that is losing the player - if a CLub wants a player out in conract- then they can organise a money and player swap that suits with another Club that wants the deal - simple.

If players wish to enjoy the benefits of making big money for being an entertainer - then they can wear the fact that they can be traded to ny other Club - as long as their contract payments are met.

Music to my ears JaB....I have no idea why there's free agency when a player can get to the club of his choice when he's out of contract through a trade. Let the clubs/agents work out what is fair compensation, not the ****ing AFL with some formula they love to keep secret.

And while they're at it, get rid of the bullshit pre season draft that list managers can use as a threat when they're offering unders in a trade....like Dodoro loved to do, and the dinosaur SOS still does - re Paddy Dow. It's one of the so called 'equalisation tools' that the AFL argue benefits lower clubs through trade negotiations if a deal can't be struck. The issue with that is that clubs can put a price tag on a player to blow away any potential competition from other clubs, similar to what we did with Jack Martin front ending the contract so others couldn't select him ahead of us.

So if we hypothetically matched the StK bid for TDK forcing a trade, what's to stop ol' mate SOS from offering us a token 3rd round pick, or threatening to walk him through the PSD with a price tag that no one else can get near? They still get their man at the same price, and Carlton walk away with nothing.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Players OOC have the opportunity to move to their required destination far easier, if it’s a RFA then you either match the offer if your able too, or the club can only accept the draft pick applied to the overall offer…
Like the Buddy compensation att which i thought sucked, the way the formulation is set up, it’s basically where you finish on the ladder by the pathetic AFL secret formula in compensation, which enables good/average players to reward clubs with overpriced high draft picks…
Overall I’m still in the camp of clubs not being able to trade players while still under contract…

I think under contract players are the ones who should be traded, like GWS do it, and get good compensation.
If honest dialogue can be maintained between players(with itchy feet), list management and player managers, then attempt to find a new home for them before they walk out for bugger all.
TDK(or others) could have signed a short term contract last year to ensure Carlton received fair compensation.

I also like JaB's idea about a salary cap limit on any individual player, to prevent ridiculous enticements to poach players.

Players still would be free to move around, but clubs would have to pay a fair price.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

You've obviously not seen much of Collins play, have you? He's a great KPD and alongside Weiters would be an elite 1-2. Fwiw Weiters is only 195cm.

Though it's a moot point as I highly doubt he'd leave the Suns and they certainly aren't pushing him out the door after winning the last 2 BnF and was in the AA squad last yr.

Either way, he's quality.

Beg to differ. He's a good average type imo. And I've seen plenty of him, even early doors at the Dockers.

Arguably, slower than Weiters...

Hard at it, granted. After that, ok, reckon he peaked 3 years or so ago...

31 in a few months time...

Dare I say it, need a guy with Young's height/athletic profile as the 2nd KPD....

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Sam Collins?

You're kidding.

A 30 yo undersized KPD (194cm = JSOS height). If we can't do better than that, we'd best pack up and join a bowling club....

Ed Richards... only if cheap.

TDK money at Sam Collins is silly, but he's a seriously underappreciated KPD. Plays well above his height and can wrestle with the big boys, freeing up Weiters to patrol the backline.

Also absolutely 0 chance Ed Richards is cheap, back end of last year into this year he is in borderline AA form, averaging 26 touches and is currently ranked 5th in score involvements and has the 2nd most goal assists league wide this year. Absolute gun and the Doggies would want a small ransom for him.

 

[The Bighouse]

I still reckon someone else will come for TDK aside from the Saints. Hes a good enough player that he doesnt need to accept going to St Kilda, to get a monster deal.

I'm thinking Sydney or Geelong. They might not match St Kilda but if one can go close and offer better hope of success I think they are the real threat.

Don’t think TDK’s being tempted other than the supposed mega deal from STK.

CFC as the club environment is not the problem (a positive actually) and I’m sure he’s been advised on the advantages of 1-club player and corporate reach of the CFC.

 

[David Sylvian]

The whole system is based avoiding a simple court case involving restraint of trade - which could only go one way and the AFL knows it.

As for players I dont give a toss about what their playing life expectancy is - no other worker in the country has the type of guarantees that AFL players get for being a sporting entertainer. a basic AFL player is now on over 400kpa. Compare that to people who actually work for a living .

I'm totally ok with them maximising what they can get - but not ok with the fact that Clubs get manipulated and screwed over by players. Even the playing field.

Carlton has put 7 years into TDK's development and has compensated him whilst doing so - and some other CLub can now come in and pay NOTHING -offset by some arbitrary decision by the AFL as to what draft pick Carlton gets or doesn't - absolute rubbish and nonsense.

Absof****** lutely, spot on. I don’t know of any afl footballer coming out of the system and not falling on their feet/been taken care of.
Doors that are closed to most of the great unwashed magically drift open when an ex player wafts passed.

 

[David Sylvian]

Tha afls “structures” around drafting trading and contracts are designed more and more to cater for the 24/7 365 media cycles.
If a balanced and even outcome is achieved it is usually by luck/coincidence/astrology rather than good management.

 

[David Sylvian]

If TDK goes, so be it. One team member does not make the team.

(Keeps fingers crossed he stays)

 

[bigblueboy]

Don’t think TDK’s being tempted other than the supposed mega deal from STK.

CFC as the club environment is not the problem (a positive actually) and I’m sure he’s been advised on the advantages of 1-club player and corporate reach of the CFC.

Yes. Good points.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

They'll finish around the middle, with a very young list. We'll also finish around the middle, with not as much upside.

The problem is, once Ross Lyon takes hold of a group, the trajectory is nothing but up (until the list ages then he leaves it in shambles) - he seems to have these young blokes firing which isn't something I expected.

I disagree with how bullish you are about the saints.

Their list is pretty bog average & I don’t see the upside you see IMHO.

They’ll finish in the middle? Possibly, or just below. That’s about right for their list from what I can see.

I don’t think TDK would be basing too much weight on the upside of their list or Ross being coach.

$1.7m will give it a good shake however.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I disagree with how bullish you are about the saints.

Their list is pretty bog average & I don’t see the upside you see IMHO.

They’ll finish in the middle? Possibly, or just below. That’s about right for their list from what I can see.

I don’t think TDK would be basing too much weight on the upside of their list or Ross being coach.

$1.7m will give it a good shake however.

I think he will be.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I think he will be.

Noted - there’s a reason St Kilda has thrown money around without any luck the past few years - it’s the only way they can entice A Graders to come across.

Their issue is - nobody’s taken it up as yet

Why is that?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Noted - there’s a reason St Kilda has thrown money around without any luck the past few years - it’s the only way they can entice A Graders to come across.

Their issue is - nobody’s taken it up as yet

Why is that?

Last year Weiters told them to shove their massive offer up their blurters.....over to you TDK.....

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Noted - there’s a reason St Kilda has thrown money around without any luck the past few years - it’s the only way the can entice A Graders to come across.

Their issue is - nobody’s taken it up as yet

Why is that?

They've been rubbish the past few years - a poor club that doesn't win, nothing enticing about that.

However, they look much, much better this year. Ross has changed up the game plan which is exciting & winning games, their drafting looks good - they're even getting more out of players like Stocker.

TDK will be making his decision based off their 2025 performance, not 2023/2024.

If he can get $1.7m out of a club on the rise, why would he take $1m from us who looks to have peaked at a Prelim final?

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Last year Weiters told them to shove their massive offer up their blurters.....over to you TDK.....

It didn’t compute for Weiterbot!

 

[CCurnow3votes]

They've been rubbish the past few years - a poor club that doesn't win, nothing enticing about that.

However, they look much, much better this year. Ross has changed up the game plan which is exciting & winning games, their drafting looks good - they're even getting more out of players like Stocker.

TDK will be making his decision based off their 2025 performance, not 2023/2024.

If he can get $1.7m out of a club on the rise, why would he take $1m from us who looks to have peaked at a Prelim

Peaked at prelim - may be a bit early. Let’s see how things unfold.

Saints playing “much,much better” are 9th and as you say will likely finish mid table.

They are mediocre at best.

There’s a reason they offer the big money - it’s not because they’re nice guys!

 

[Juice030103]

I personally wouldn’t sign TDK for the money he’s being offered

I’d let him walk, not the popular opinion I know but I just don’t think we need to add yet another million dollar player to our list when we have serious depth issues and holes in the list that need fixing

 

[ajs071]

TDK will leave for the cash and will leave his mates in the lurch, who have taken unders to try and keep the list together. Our offer will likely make him our highest paid player yet it probably still wont be enough and he will leave anyway.

IMO, our flag tilt is not over as we still have the quality there. The list needs a re tweek and so does our coaching group. If we can do that, we still have 3 4 years of having a real shot at it.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I'll preface this post by saying that I absolutely love TDK, and think he can go down as one of the greatest Blues ever if he reaches his potential, and 100% makes us a better team when he plays.

We should 100% let him walk.

Not only do we NOT need another highly paid player on an already top heavy list, history has shown that unless you're one of the greatest ruckmen to ever do it (Gawn, Cox), you do NOT need a star ruck to win a premiership. This point has been made 1,000 times on this board at this point, but let's go through the last 10 premiership rucks:

Darcy Fort, Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

29

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

, Rhys Stanley, Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

(outlier), Toby Nankervis

25

Toby Nankervis

Age

30

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

2.9

4star

HO

21.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

6.3

4star

CL

3.0

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

4.4

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

8.4

5star

x2, Scott Lycett

29

Scott Lycett

Age

32

Ht

203cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.3

4star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

19.0

5star

D

11.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.7

3star

CL

4.2

5star

HO

24.7

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

5.0

5star

, Toby Nankervis

25

Toby Nankervis

Age

30

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

2.9

4star

HO

21.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

6.3

4star

CL

3.0

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

4.4

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

8.4

5star

(with Shaun f*cking Grigg pinch hitting), Jordan Roughead/Tom Boyd, David Hale.​

Of that list, only Gawn, Cameron and Nank I'd consider above league average in their position at the time, and the names italicised I'd consider close to bottom 5 in their position in the league at the time. 4 out of the last 10 premiership rucks I would consider weak in their position. That is a crazy stat.

When you consider our list is already lop sided and we need to improve our bottom 4-6 REALLY bad, it just doesn't make sense to sign Tom up on 1m+ over a long term. Love him to bits but it's just not a smart move.

 

[Kruezing]

TDK will leave for the cash and will leave his mates in the lurch, who have taken unders to try and keep the list together. Our offer will likely make him our highest paid player yet it probably still wont be enough and he will leave anyway.

IMO, our flag tilt is not over as we still have the quality there. The list needs a re tweek and so does our coaching group. If we can do that, we still have 3 4 years of having a real shot at it.

From what I’ve heard he wants to stay and it’s a family member urging him to consider other options …

 

[Blueyourmyboy!!]

Think we could build a top shelf best 23 with some shrewd trading and drafting and taking a huge risk.

TDK - If he wants to leave. Then we match and 3 way trade with GC for Rowell (bring him home)

TDK > Rowell (GC) ($1m)
Butts (ADE) > 3rd round pick $400k
Ryan (WC) > 2nd round pick (Brisbane) $600k
Draper (ESS) > UFA $600k / Ladhams (SYD) 4th Rounder $400k / Reidy (FRE) 4th Rounder $250k
JUH (WB) (risky) > F3 $600k
Sinn (PTA) > DFA $250k / Williams (PTA) > UFA $250k
Rosas (GC) > DFA $250k


FB: Saad - Butts - Weitering
HB: Carroll - Silvagni - Sinn
C: Cerra - Cripps - Walsh
F: Draper - Rowell - Smith
HF: E.Hollands - McKay - White
FF: Curnow - JUH - Ryan
B: Newman - Lord - Hewett - Cowan
S: Kemp

Move on:
TDK - $1.2m
Docherty - $500k
McGovern - $500k
Haynes - $300k
Williams - $450k (pay whoever takes him $450k for 1 year)
Fantasia - $200k
Evan’s - $150k

Up for Trade:
Top 5 Pick or 2x Firsts
McKay (If he wants a fresh start)

Mid to Late First
O.Hollands - Don’t have a spot for him in my team.
Kemp - If Saints want him pay up

Second Rounder
Motlop
Moir

Third Rounder
Williams - Plus we pay half his salary
Fogarty
Durdin
Binns

Nice and good work but draper is worth more than 600k more like 900k +. He's a better ruck than TDK id rather have him than TDK.

 

[Soapy V]

Don’t think TDK’s being tempted other than the supposed mega deal from STK.

CFC as the club environment is not the problem (a positive actually) and I’m sure he’s been advised on the advantages of 1-club player and corporate reach of the CFC.

There's more than one club after TDK