List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[Flaggers22]

The Saints have leverage knowing we couldn't pay up the 1.7mil contract.

I think the plan is to match the offer and force a trade. We have something like 18 players coming out of contract this year, so we'll clear out enough cap space to match the offer. To do this we'll probably have to come to in-principle extensions with players we'd otherwise retain, so guys like Kemp, Silvagni, Motlop, Newman, McGovern. In short, they'll sign after we resolve the TDK situation.

If Tom decides to accept the offer there's four potential outcomes as I see it, ranked in order of likelihood:

1) Carlton matches the offer and forces a trade. There's a culture in the AFL of players looking after their former clubs. Chris Judd, Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield all did it. Last year Liam Baker stressed to West Coast that he was prepared to stay if Richmond weren't adequately compensated. I don't think we'll try and take St Kilda to the cleaners, because I think if we do, we could scare them off. However, two first rounders (I think they'll both be top 10) and some late picks to help us match bids for Harry Dean and Cody Walker would be a great deal for us.

2) St Kilda walks away from the deal, I think this is definitely possible given Silvagni's track record. In doing so he'll incur the wrath of Connors Sports Management (the most powerful agency) and Robbie D'Orazio. The player managers hold all the leverage in the league, if you deny CSM their commission on a 12 million dollar deal, perhaps they'll decide to screw you over the next time one of their five St Kilda players comes out of contract. However, St Kilda might come to the conclusion that pissing off CSM is preferable to trading away 3 first rounders for TDK (I know I would in their shoes).

Now if this happens there's a loophole that will enable us to renegotiate the terms of Tom's contract, so we won't have to pay 12 million across 7 years, if St Kilda indicate that they're not willing to trade. Source

3) Carlton accept the compensation package. This is the route most clubs take, given how generous the AFL are with compensation. There's been just over 50 free agency moves since it's been introduced, and there's only been two deals where the compensation package wasn't going to be anywhere near the players actual value. In both cases - Dangerfield and Cameron - the players wered traded, and in Dangerfield's case the Cats didn't even bother lodging a free agency offer. Given TDK's current form and the offer being tabled to him, I think he sits comfortably in that group, so it'd take a top 3 compensation pick for us to even consider it, and that's just not happening.

4) He enters the draft. Obviously this would only happen if the relationship between player and club had soured, and there is a risk that he wouldn't get to the Saints. At this stage the relationship between Tom and Carlton is fantastic, it's just that he'd be mad to leave an extra 4 million dollars (before tax) on the table.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Would be the worse possible outcome for us imo....they'll offer him less than the Aints which may or may not secure us band 1 compensation, depending on what they're offering.

And good luck trying to trade with that flog Mackie though....he's fast becoming the new Dodoro. He successfully screwed over Collingwood in the Henry trade, and last year the Dogs in the Smith trade. Don't expect he'll be offering up anything much - and even then, their 1st round pick this year may end up somewhere in the 30's anyway.

If St Kilda offer $1.7m
and Carlton offer say $1m

Then he goes to Geelong for less than those, resulting in band 2 combo.

Then I reckon that's enough for the AFL to say 'enoughs enough' to Geelong and have a good proper look at what they're up to, and probably block the move - because that would be absolutely absurd if they pulled that off.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If St Kilda offer $1.7m
and Carlton offer say $1m

Then he goes to Geelong for less than those, resulting in band 2 combo.

Then I reckon that's enough for the AFL to say 'enoughs enough' to Geelong and have a good proper look at what they're up to, and probably block the move - because that would be absolutely absurd if they pulled that off.

TDK ain't going anywhere for anything less than what Carlton deem fair value.

Hopefully its just TDK ain't going anywhere.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

TDK ain't going anywhere for anything less than what Carlton deem fair value.

Hopefully its just TDK ain't going anywhere.

Yeah Geelong will offer:

$200k salary - courtesy of the actual football club.
$1.2m house & land package - courtesy of Simonds.
0% interest mortgage - courtesy of Morris Finance
$1.2m worth of clothes - courtesy of cotton on
Vintage Ford Mustang - courtesy of Ford
Free enrolment in a certificate 3 in woodwork & carpentry - courtesy of Deakin uni

 

[Red_man2008]

If Carlton beat Geelong on Sunday I’d expect a TDK signature pretty soon after.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

If Carlton beat Geelong on Sunday I’d expect a TDK signature pretty soon after.

TDK Cup!

 

[carlton_99]

If Carlton beat Geelong on Sunday I’d expect a TDK signature pretty soon after.

Specifically Geelong or just our next win?

 

[TENACIOUS]

Some names I think would be gettable for a cheapish price. All depends on our draft picks and cap situation though.

1. Decent small forwards (X-Factor) - Nathan Wardius (Trade), Kade Chandler (Trade) Malcolm Rosas (DFA), Massimo Raso (MSD)
2. HBF (speed & Ball use) - Josh Sinn (Trade), Joe Fonti (Trade), Dylan Williams (DFA) Tom Evans (MSD)
3. Mid (speed & Ball use) - Jagga is the best we can hope for unless we come across some good draft picks by moving players on.
4. Ruck (Ready to go) - Flynn Riley, big bastard we had playing VFL for us this year but have seemingly hidden away back in the bush leagues (C4 alluded to us doing this)
5. KPD (Ready to go) - Jordan Butts (Trade), Wade Derksen (Trade), Jedd Busslinger (Trade) Charlie McCartin (MSD)

If TDK and Harry or Walsh move on like discussed. I’d hope we chase Rowell and go hard at Rachelle.

I’d rather go after known commodities, instead of 50/50 draft picks.

Raso and Rosas would be upgrades over Fantasia, Evans & Fogarty.. Don’t know much about Warrius and Chandler.

Riley would be good, turn O’Keeffe into a full time KPF/Ruck.

Butts and Busslinger are good options.

I like what I saw of Stumpf on the MSD thread and wouldn’t be opposed giving a third for JUH if Harry left…

 

[Red_man2008]

Specifically Geelong or just our next win?

This is not insider information. I know it’s hard to tell sometimes. It’s just a theory I have. No source.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I think the plan is to match the offer and force a trade. We have something like 18 players coming out of contract this year, so we'll clear out enough cap space to match the offer. To do this we'll probably have to come to in-principle extensions with players we'd otherwise retain, so guys like Kemp, Silvagni, Motlop, Newman, McGovern. In short, they'll sign after we resolve the TDK situation.

If Tom decides to accept the offer there's four potential outcomes as I see it, ranked in order of likelihood:

1) Carlton matches the offer and forces a trade. There's a culture in the AFL of players looking after their former clubs. Chris Judd, Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield all did it. Last year Liam Baker stressed to West Coast that he was prepared to stay if Richmond weren't adequately compensated. I don't think we'll try and take St Kilda to the cleaners, because I think if we do, we could scare them off. However, two first rounders (I think they'll both be top 10) and some late picks to help us match bids for Harry Dean and Cody Walker would be a great deal for us.

2) St Kilda walks away from the deal, I think this is definitely possible given Silvagni's track record. In doing so he'll incur the wrath of Connors Sports Management (the most powerful agency) and Robbie D'Orazio. The player managers hold all the leverage in the league, if you deny CSM their commission on a 12 million dollar deal, perhaps they'll decide to screw you over the next time one of their five St Kilda players comes out of contract. However, St Kilda might come to the conclusion that pissing off CSM is preferable to trading away 3 first rounders for TDK (I know I would in their shoes).

Now if this happens there's a loophole that will enable us to renegotiate the terms of Tom's contract, so we won't have to pay 12 million across 7 years, if St Kilda indicate that they're not willing to trade. Source

3) Carlton accept the compensation package. This is the route most clubs take, given how generous the AFL are with compensation. There's been just over 50 free agency moves since it's been introduced, and there's only been two deals where the compensation package wasn't going to be anywhere near the players actual value. In both cases - Dangerfield and Cameron - the players wered traded, and in Dangerfield's case the Cats didn't even bother lodging a free agency offer. Given TDK's current form and the offer being tabled to him, I think he sits comfortably in that group, so it'd take a top 3 compensation pick for us to even consider it, and that's just not happening.

4) He enters the draft. Obviously this would only happen if the relationship between player and club had soured, and there is a risk that he wouldn't get to the Saints. At this stage the relationship between Tom and Carlton is fantastic, it's just that he'd be mad to leave an extra 4 million dollars (before tax) on the table.

1) a. Carlton matches and SOS says no worries, pay up Carlton and he walks away.
SOS doesnt need to trade, if we match, we pay simple as the that. SOS would do it just to f$%# us over mark my words.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If TDK and Harry or Walsh move on like discussed. I’d hope we chase Rowell and go hard at Rachelle.

I’d rather go after known commodities, instead of 50/50 draft picks.

Raso and Rosas would be upgrades over Fantasia, Evans & Fogarty.. Don’t know much about Warrius and Chandler.

Riley would be good, turn O’Keeffe into a full time KPF/Ruck.

Butts and Busslinger are good options.

I like what I saw of Stumpf on the MSD thread and wouldn’t be opposed giving a third for JUH if Harry left…

If TDK and Harry or Walsh were moved on I'd rather us hit the draft hard

 

[JustOneTime]

If TDK, Harry or Walsh were moved on, I'd wanna shoot the club for stupidity.

Recency bias and supporter stupidity.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If TDK, Harry or Walsh were moved on, I'd wanna shoot the club for stupidity.

Recency bias and supporter stupidity.

TDK may be out of our hands. Harry or Walsh would be on our terms at least.

Personally think someone will go, but don't think we need to move multiple to balance the list appropriately.

I do wonder how much value our 2027 picks would hold though, we just need a few spare picks to make some moves imo.

 

[JustOneTime]

TDK may be out of our hands. Harry or Walsh would be on our terms at least.

Personally think someone will go, but don't think we need to move multiple to balance the list appropriately.

I do wonder how much value our 2027 picks would hold though, we just need a few spare picks to make some moves imo.

I tend to think it has been in our hands 'indirectly'. If we werent a joke at times he wouldnt be looking. Other LM like SoS will be saying Carlton are going nowhere and look how Saad wasted his time moving.

Obv Saints are going nowhere either but that doesnt stop the innuendo.

 

[Juice030103]

Harry to me just feels like a goner to me. No intel just vibe. Not saying he’s crap or anything, just feels like he’s the most obvious answer to fixing the salary cap

 

[Forty3]

I think the plan is to match the offer and force a trade. We have something like 18 players coming out of contract this year, so we'll clear out enough cap space to match the offer. To do this we'll probably have to come to in-principle extensions with players we'd otherwise retain, so guys like Kemp, Silvagni, Motlop, Newman, McGovern. In short, they'll sign after we resolve the TDK situation.

If Tom decides to accept the offer there's four potential outcomes as I see it, ranked in order of likelihood:

1) Carlton matches the offer and forces a trade. There's a culture in the AFL of players looking after their former clubs. Chris Judd, Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield all did it. Last year Liam Baker stressed to West Coast that he was prepared to stay if Richmond weren't adequately compensated. I don't think we'll try and take St Kilda to the cleaners, because I think if we do, we could scare them off. However, two first rounders (I think they'll both be top 10) and some late picks to help us match bids for Harry Dean and Cody Walker would be a great deal for us.

2) St Kilda walks away from the deal, I think this is definitely possible given Silvagni's track record. In doing so he'll incur the wrath of Connors Sports Management (the most powerful agency) and Robbie D'Orazio. The player managers hold all the leverage in the league, if you deny CSM their commission on a 12 million dollar deal, perhaps they'll decide to screw you over the next time one of their five St Kilda players comes out of contract. However, St Kilda might come to the conclusion that pissing off CSM is preferable to trading away 3 first rounders for TDK (I know I would in their shoes).

Now if this happens there's a loophole that will enable us to renegotiate the terms of Tom's contract, so we won't have to pay 12 million across 7 years, if St Kilda indicate that they're not willing to trade. Source

3) Carlton accept the compensation package. This is the route most clubs take, given how generous the AFL are with compensation. There's been just over 50 free agency moves since it's been introduced, and there's only been two deals where the compensation package wasn't going to be anywhere near the players actual value. In both cases - Dangerfield and Cameron - the players wered traded, and in Dangerfield's case the Cats didn't even bother lodging a free agency offer. Given TDK's current form and the offer being tabled to him, I think he sits comfortably in that group, so it'd take a top 3 compensation pick for us to even consider it, and that's just not happening.

4) He enters the draft. Obviously this would only happen if the relationship between player and club had soured, and there is a risk that he wouldn't get to the Saints. At this stage the relationship between Tom and Carlton is fantastic, it's just that he'd be mad to leave an extra 4 million dollars (before tax) on the table.

Saint's cannot walk away from the deal if he agrees to it. We cannot renegotiate the deal if we match it.

We have a 3 day window to try and negotiate a different deal before submitting the paperwork of matching. Which would require a tremendous game of poker to convince St Kilda that we were going to match the deal to the point that they make some outrageous remark that results in TDK and his management deciding to renegotitiate a seperate lessor deal with Carlton within 3 days of siging a contract with St Kilda.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Saint's cannot walk away from the deal if he agrees to it. We cannot renegotiate the deal if we match it.

We have a 3 day window to try and negotiate a different deal before submitting the paperwork of matching. Which would require a tremendous game of poker to convince St Kilda that we were going to match the deal to the point that they make some outrageous remark that results in TDK and his management deciding to renegotitiate a seperate lessor deal with Carlton within 3 days of siging a contract with St Kilda.

Any word on anyone else involving us 43?

 

[Forty3]

Any word on anyone else involving us 43?

Real holding pattern for two reasons.

1: Waiting on TDK

2: Waiting on the AFL to finalise what the NGA and Father son rules are going to look like going forward.
We have Dean, Ison and Clarke this year and Cody next.
Dean is a top 30, Ison is to if he can stay fit enough for more than 2 quarters. Clarke could be anywhere from 3rd to rookie.
The following year Cody could go anywhere from pick 1 to pick 3. So lots of balls in the air, but until we know more its a of a wait and see.
No matter how many times you read that Cody is a Carlton F/S and a Richmond NGA, he's a Carlton F/S. It's not even in question.

Club is hoping to have a pretty clear idea of TDKs decision before the MSD as we now have 2 picks available. If we know hes gone, a Ruck on an 18 month Rookie contract will allow us a lot more flexibility that having to go through the circus at seasons end.
If TDK leaves, whilst wanting to add mature talent, the club is loathed to chase a FA as it will ofset the compo pick.

I'm not sure where the Walsh stuff has come from, but I haven't heard even a whisper about it.

Will have some more MSD info in a couple of weeks.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Real holding pattern for two reasons.

1: Waiting on TDK

2: Waiting on the AFL to finalise what the NGA and Father son rules are going to look like going forward.
We have Dean, Ison and Clarke this year and Cody next.
Dean is a top 30, Ison is to if he can stay fit enough for more than 2 quarters. Clarke could be anywhere from 3rd to rookie.
The following year Cody could go anywhere from pick 1 to pick 3. So lots of balls in the air, but until we know more its a of a wait and see.
No matter how many times you read that Cody is a Carlton F/S and a Richmond NGA, he's a Carlton F/S. It's not even in question.

Club is hoping to have a pretty clear idea of TDKs decision before the MSD as we now have 2 picks available. If we know hes gone, a Ruck on an 18 month Rookie contract will allow us a lot more flexibility that having to go through the circus at seasons end.
If TDK leaves, whilst wanting to add mature talent, the club is loathed to chase a FA as it will ofset the compo pick.

I'm not sure where the Walsh stuff has come from, but I haven't heard even a whisper about it.

Will have some more MSD info in a couple of weeks.

Thanks 43!

 

[JustOneTime]

Real holding pattern for two reasons.

1: Waiting on TDK

2: Waiting on the AFL to finalise what the NGA and Father son rules are going to look like going forward.
We have Dean, Ison and Clarke this year and Cody next.
Dean is a top 30, Ison is to if he can stay fit enough for more than 2 quarters. Clarke could be anywhere from 3rd to rookie.
The following year Cody could go anywhere from pick 1 to pick 3. So lots of balls in the air, but until we know more its a of a wait and see.
No matter how many times you read that Cody is a Carlton F/S and a Richmond NGA, he's a Carlton F/S. It's not even in question.

Club is hoping to have a pretty clear idea of TDKs decision before the MSD as we now have 2 picks available. If we know hes gone, a Ruck on an 18 month Rookie contract will allow us a lot more flexibility that having to go through the circus at seasons end.
If TDK leaves, whilst wanting to add mature talent, the club is loathed to chase a FA as it will ofset the compo pick.

I'm not sure where the Walsh stuff has come from, but I haven't heard even a whisper about it.

Will have some more MSD info in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for sharing.

Please don't overpay for TDK. Anything even close to the media number. That type of money is reserved for a generational talent and TDK is good but can be beat easily enough in games. He is what you call a good ruck...

I dont even know the real numbers but Young, Mcgovern, Pitto and Williams have all been overpaid im sure.

 

[Forty3]

Thanks for sharing.

Please don't overpay for TDK. Anything even close to the media number. That type of money is reserved for a generational talent and TDK is good but can be beat easily enough in games. He is what you call a good ruck...

I dont even know the real numbers but Young, Mcgovern, Pitto and Williams have all been overpaid im sure.

We've set our price, we aren't changing it. It would make him the highest paid player at the club, but it is $600k a season less than St Kilda's offer. End of the day, loyalty can only stetch so far. His heart wants to stay, his head, his wallet, his management and just about anybody in the world is telling him he can't stay.

I would love for him to stay. It's hard for us normal folk to comprehend considering I'm pretty confident that most of us would be happy with the Carlton offer if one compares it to relative earnings outside of professional sport, which is fair, I can put my hand up and say I work a lot more hours for a lot less. But at the same time, I have (hopefully) more than 12 years in my career, and whilst sometimes I like to put a bit of mayo on how dangerous my mundane job is, I'm not really at a particular high risk of a career ending injury.

So there is a bit more to it than just eye boggling figures, not all AFL players, or should I say, not many AFL players have the.... world acumen... to put it nicely, to transition into another career post football.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

We've set our price, we aren't changing it. It would make him the highest paid player at the club, but it is $600k a season less than St Kilda's offer. End of the day, loyalty can only stetch so far. His heart wants to stay, his head, his wallet, his management and just about anybody in the world is telling him he can't stay.

I would love for him to stay. It's hard for us normal folk to comprehend considering I'm pretty confident that most of us would be happy with the Carlton offer if one compares it to relative earnings outside of professional sport, which is fair, I can put my hand up and say I work a lot more hours for a lot less. But at the same time, I have (hopefully) more than 12 years in my career, and whilst sometimes I like to put a bit of mayo on how dangerous my mundane job is, I'm not really at a particular high risk of a career ending injury.

So there is a bit more to it than just eye boggling figures, not all AFL players, or should I say, not many AFL players have the.... world acumen... to put it nicely, to transition into another career post football.

Thanks for sharing this info 43.

Can I ask you opinion on player earnings beyond player contracts - as discussed by a few?

The thought being - if he stays with us, his earnings after playing will be considerably higher through club connections, than St Kilda.

Is that real, or a pipe dream?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

If TDK, Harry or Walsh were moved on, I'd wanna shoot the club for stupidity.

Recency bias and supporter stupidity.

Well they need to perform and live up to the expectations - which is contend for flags, or they’ll be moved on.

Pretty simple.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

The thought being - if he stays with us, his earnings after playing will be considerably higher through club connections, than St Kilda.

Is that real, or a pipe dream?

Read between the lines.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Read between the lines.

Meaning what exactly ….