List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[Soapy V]

This makes sense. The form of Weitering and Cripps especially has nose dived.

I always feel things are getting bad when the leaks get louder and louder. I have had more messages in last week than last 3 months and all the same

My gut feel is we are in the edge now and if things don’t change quickly it could get ugly

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

mate- the commentators were even smart enough to figure out why the game style changed

1. We lost two talls in Charlie and O'Brien ( did you notice that?) and Williams was actually playing FF for a half FFS; and
2. It was a defendable lead

what exactly do you think the mission was and then morphed into because of the injuries?

PS take 4 points and run - preservation mode was switched on for very obvious reasons - I don't understand the nuffie commentary on here during game and after - as if the reality of who was playing and what the options were - are irrelevant considerations to Caaaarlton supporters -ENTITLEMENT SYNDROME - disease.

Partly agree that the loss of our two big boys up front, had a lot to do with our change in game plan.

However, HOK and Charlie on one leg, were not really setting the world on fire. Yes, I do understand that structurally, we had to change things up.

Now the season is as good as gone, their are positives that I can see from our injuries. Getting plenty of games into our kids, is now really important. Young players can only improve so much at the VFL level. Time to now bring Billy in to create some run and carry off half back, which is desperately needed. Lemmey may play this week as well, he deserves a chance now that he has found a bit of mongrel at last. Moir has improved his fitness and is close to selection as well.

Things are not as bad as they seem. G.W. is exactly the right man for us now, he will not be afraid to make tough calls and if that means trading one or two of our best, then so be it. Crippa deserves a premiership medallion and G.W. needs to do whatever it takes to make this a real possibility.

 

[BlueJet]

If we can keep Tom for unders and trade Harry thats probably a better outcome then vice versa. TDK is younger and a better player, plus we'll get more for Harry in a trade then we will fir Tom as FA compensation.

We won't keep him for unders, discussion seems to reflect that we've table around 1m, which is already overs.
Better player is also very much debatable given he's around a 50:50 proposition to beat his direct opponent any given week.
H despite playing out of position, being down form/fitness has probably been more of a matchwinner, yet some of our fans are seemingly determined to have him head for the exit.

 

[marcmurphy3]

If the TDK rumour is true it is consistent with what has happened (and I have posted over last 6 months or more) Senior group like Voss but are very concerned with game plan and direction. Feel they do everything asked but get picked apart against good opposition. Many feel coaches have no answers

Meetings have been held and coaches have adjusted but it’s been minimal

Players feel they have the talent just not the structure and plan. There have been many comments from other players and coaches about how basic our game plan is

It is a massive issue internally and I feel it’s eating away at our group. They are trying to stick together but it’s getting hard.

Players such as Cripps Walsh Weitering are really struggling with staying positive and getting up each week

The hope is Wright will step in and address some issues and quickly

They're only human. It'd be tough continuing to commit when you know you dont have the right plan.

 

[marcmurphy3]

We won't keep him for unders, discussion seems to reflect that we've table around 1m, which is already overs.
Better player is also very much debatable given he's around a 50:50 proposition to beat his direct opponent any given week.
H despite playing out of position, being down form/fitness has probably been more of a matchwinner, yet some of our fans are seemingly determined to have him head for the exit.

Not keen for his exit but I think we need both $ and picks to make some list changes so if TDK stays someone has to go.

Id personally rather trade Charlie then Harry but it seems the latter is more likely.

 

[blues4flag]

Our development is awful and has been for 30 years

It has been, is it still?

It's an indictment that we didn't field our own standalone club until 2021 (and affiliated with one of the worst clubs in the VFL comp), when clubs like Essendon, Richmond, the Bulldogs, Collingwood and Geelong had standalone teams for years prior.

There's clearly been a renewed focus on development in the Cook/Sayers era. Results aren't necessarily going to be evident overnight.
Likely teething pains early on after splitting from the Bullants, attracting good quality VFL players to complement our AFL players (especially given how poor we've been historically), injuries in recent seasons meaning we were fielding a skeleton crew of kids in the 2s.

Having said that, for the first time we're seeing real strides from numerous players in the reserves. We've had an MSD pick in Lord play all but one games at AFL level this year, and a delisted rookie who missed all of last season in Carroll play most weeks.

Lemmey has gone from a potential bust to banging down the door for a debut. Austin was heavily criticised after Wilson's first two games this season, though he's been arguably our best over recent weeks. HOK was by Voss's own admission not AFL standard 2 months ago but has shown huge growth and earned a debut. HOF looked 2 years away in preseason but has already debuted and more than held his own. Charleson has fitted in seamlessly, Ben Camporeale playing solid footy at the level. Moir is starting to impact for longer. Even Monahan has shown real improvement in recent weeks.

Personally feel the state of our development is the best it's been, but these things are measured over years.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

I always feel things are getting bad when the leaks get louder and louder. I have had more messages in last week than last 3 months and all the same

My gut feel is we are in the edge now and if things don’t change quickly it could get ugly

Thanks soap.
Are u able to elaborate at all on the above?
Do u mean change in the way Voss is coaching the team? Structural/ game plan ect

Sorry mate, I didn’t go back far enough and read your initial post.
All good

 

[Flaggers22]

1. Boyd is not Carltons 'best kick'. Carroll a 5 gamer has him covered (which is why Carroll is playing) as does McGovern, Williams, McKay, Curnow as field kicks who do damage as does Fantasia when he is playing...
2. Who would you drop for the too many inside mids- Walsh has dropped himself through injury ..and the Club looked deep and found Motlop as a 'faster' option who is adept at running over the ball and out of any contest or just coming in aa tad late - every time or just being run around - every time...
3. Who plays on the wing is who is available to play - wanna go with Binns week in week out- good luck with that
4. Carlton switches the ball least because it has the worst field kicking ability in the competition- not that Voss hasnt encouraged them - the WC showed they cant even hold a standard kick to kick when unmarked ...


Trying to shovel Carlton's faults all on to Voss ...yeah nahhh not. buyer of this BS.

1) To my eye Boyd is the best, from a technical standpoint. There's also data to back that up. Champion Data had him rated in the top 10 kicks in the competition last year. Matthew Carroll operates at 68% kicking efficiency. I think Carrol is likely better than this output, but it takes new players time to adjust to the level. Boyd was at 80% last year when he was playing. Zac Williams was operating in the low 70s when he was playing as a defender. If these guys are better kicks, why is Boyd hitting targets with more accuracy in a similar role? The only one who you listed that I think might actually challenge him for that mantle is McGovern. Charlie excels at one particular kick, a 50-60m pass when he's swinging onto his right foot, he struggles sometimes when he's not sinking his foot into the ball. McKay is a good kick by key position standards, but when he blunders, it's bad.

2) I wouldn't drop any of those 3. They are far too good for VFL. I'd probably end up flipping Cerra over to a wing (probably not ideal, but he's more suited than Lord, and a better player than Binns) or HB. Or I'd ask Cripps to spend more time up forward. They're not ideal solutions but we desperately need alternative skill sets around the ball.

3) I'd put Hollands back on the wing and bring Boyd back to fill his defensive role. I don't think Binns is AFL standard.

4) Players institute the coach's game plan. If they didn't there would be no need for a coach. Do you actually think Voss doesn't have any input in the way they transition the ball from D50 to F50? You see this in every sport, when a new coach comes in the players adapt to their method.

5) I never blamed "all" of our faults on Voss. Did you just skim through the post? I conceded that the list has issues, and talked about them at length. This is not a black or white argument, it's not list management or coaching. Anyone who places the blame entirely on a single department is an idiot.

 

[Coops93]

1) To my eye Boyd is the best, from a technical standpoint. There's also data to back that up. Champion Data had him rated in the top 10 kicks in the competition last year. Matthew Carroll operates at 68% kicking efficiency. I think Carrol is likely better than this output, but it takes new players time to adjust to the level. Boyd was at 80% last year when he was playing. Zac Williams was operating in the low 70s when he was playing as a defender. If these guys are better kicks, why is Boyd hitting targets with more accuracy in a similar role? The only one who you listed that I think might actually challenge him for that mantle is McGovern. Charlie excels at one particular kick, a 50-60m pass when he's swinging onto his right foot, he struggles sometimes when he's not sinking his foot into the ball. McKay is a good kick by key position standards, but when he blunders, it's bad.

I like Carroll, but it's a little hyperbolic to suggest he's our best kick, or is indeed better than Boyd.

The stats you talk about are pertinent, but even to the eye, Boyds kicks travel faster through the air and have more punch and a flatter trajectory. Carroll also, to my eye so could be incorrect, does have a slightly awkward ball drop and I find it's quite high. He's still a good kick, but that's just one minor technical flaw that prevents some of that punch. Compare to Boyd has a nice low-ball drop.

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

I always feel things are getting bad when the leaks get louder and louder. I have had more messages in last week than last 3 months and all the same

My gut feel is we are in the edge now and if things don’t change quickly it could get ugly

Even from the outside it’s evident that change is coming. I imagine the club would already know enough from the members survey, volume of members cancelling direct debits and crowd numbers to be very nervous about what next year may look like. Cook gave me that impression in an interview I heard somewhere last week.

 

[marcmurphy3]

If the TDK rumour is true it is consistent with what has happened (and I have posted over last 6 months or more) Senior group like Voss but are very concerned with game plan and direction. Feel they do everything asked but get picked apart against good opposition. Many feel coaches have no answers

Meetings have been held and coaches have adjusted but it’s been minimal

Players feel they have the talent just not the structure and plan. There have been many comments from other players and coaches about how basic our game plan is

It is a massive issue internally and I feel it’s eating away at our group. They are trying to stick together but it’s getting hard.

Players such as Cripps Walsh Weitering are really struggling with staying positive and getting up each week

The hope is Wright will step in and address some issues and quickly

Do you think the administration (ie Wright) see it the same way as the players Soap? Clearly the coaches dont?

 

[Soapy V]

Do you think the administration (ie Wright) see it the same way as the players Soap? Clearly the coaches dont?

I honestly don’t know.

My gut feel is Wright has assessed everything and knows some significant changes are needed. What they will be I would only be guessing BUT if he is listening to players I then see significant changes to coaching group

Going to be an interesting 3-4 months

 

[Accidental genius]

This (below) backs up what Soapy has been saying for a while now...

From a fox footy report by Jon Ralph...(June 17th, 2025 11:00 am)

"McClure was asked if that meant De Koning believed change was necessary at Carlton."

“I think that there is a senior group of Carlton players who believe that they have enough talent at the club’s disposal to get them closer to a flag than what they are, but clearly ... there is change needed,” he said.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

If the TDK rumour is true it is consistent with what has happened (and I have posted over last 6 months or more) Senior group like Voss but are very concerned with game plan and direction. Feel they do everything asked but get picked apart against good opposition. Many feel coaches have no answers

Meetings have been held and coaches have adjusted but it’s been minimal

Players feel they have the talent just not the structure and plan. There have been many comments from other players and coaches about how basic our game plan is

It is a massive issue internally and I feel it’s eating away at our group. They are trying to stick together but it’s getting hard.

Players such as Cripps Walsh Weitering are really struggling with staying positive and getting up each week

The hope is Wright will step in and address some issues and quickly

Déjà vu for the last 60 million coaches. It runs deeper than that.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

This (below) backs up what Soapy has been saying for a while now...

From a fox footy report by Jon Ralph...(June 17th, 2025 11:00 am)

"McClure was asked if that meant De Koning believed change was necessary at Carlton."

“I think that there is a senior group of Carlton players who believe that they have enough talent at the club’s disposal to get them closer to a flag than what they are, but clearly ... there is change needed,” he said.

Closer but not close enough. It's just adding to the whitewashing. The club needs to attack the competition with vigor, not just do all the standard 'nice' things.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

I always feel things are getting bad when the leaks get louder and louder. I have had more messages in last week than last 3 months and all the same

My gut feel is we are in the edge now and if things don’t change quickly it could get ugly

Ugly as in Voss gets sacked or players leaving?

 

[DamoESP]

Déjà vu for the last 60 million coaches. It runs deeper than that.

Yep, pretty much the exact same things I remember reading here about the playing group back when Bolton and Teague were shown the door. And to be fair, a few of those "core" players are still on the list.....

 

[zeggie]

Think it's clear TDK is yet to make up his mind. Don't blame him.

Not unlike several RFAs last year who waited until August to re-sign.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Yep, pretty much the exact same things I remember reading here about the playing group back when Bolton and Teague were shown the door. And to be fair, a few of those "core" players are still on the list.....

I know this will be controversial but who of the coaches that we have let go, has gone on to be successful?
Ratten was the closest and unfortunately fell at StKilda.
Maybe we just don’t choose well!!!

 

[DangerousD]

mate- the commentators were even smart enough to figure out why the game style changed

1. We lost two talls in Charlie and O'Brien ( did you notice that?) and Williams was actually playing FF for a half FFS; and
2. It was a defendable lead

what exactly do you think the mission was and then morphed into because of the injuries?

PS take 4 points and run - preservation mode was switched on for very obvious reasons - I don't understand the nuffie commentary on here during game and after - as if the reality of who was playing and what the options were - are irrelevant considerations to Caaaarlton supporters -ENTITLEMENT SYNDROME - disease.

If this was a once off and we looked at the game in isolation sure, but our form and style from 1st quarters or 1st halves to second halves across the season has been huge, its not a once off. I’ve seen you mention this before and put it on the players which is fine, i struggle to understand how a group can perform a certain way in a quarter across multiple games, then turn to absolute crap the next.

By us not being able to cope with injuries to key players, shows to me we have a game plan that relies too heavily on these players. Not just this year but the past few, as soon as a key players goes down, the whole set up seems to tank, i know i dont watch as much opposition matches as i used to but im not dumb enough to think other teams dont get injuries to important players.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Yep, pretty much the exact same things I remember reading here about the playing group back when Bolton and Teague were shown the door. And to be fair, a few of those "core" players are still on the list.....

In fairness, I dont recall the sacking of Bolton being player driven. More club driven. The weight of losses just became to much. Most our current senior group had barely started playing.

Teague was a bad hire. Completely unqualified. Way out if his depth. Not surprising some players agreed. Even then a group of senior players tried to save him so hard to call it a mutiny.

Everyone has always known Voss is weak tactically (which makes you question the hire in the first place) so not surprising players have an issue with gameplan. Nothing I have seen suggests they are wrong.

 

[DangerousD]

If you or anyone else can glean that already, it becomes a very sad indictment of our development coaches.

Monahan was wasted forward of the ball for most of his first season, despite the tried and true method of introducing the Irish boys to our game from behind the ball. His output has improved of late, if it is enough to continue his career remains to be seen.

Duffy has played, I think three games after a delayed start and hasn’t done too much wrong despite having limited game time to date.

Put your list management cap on. Come seasons end if Gresham and Clarke go undrafted at the ND, do you push one of the Irish boys of the Cat B list to make way for one of them?

Monaghan if the club thought he still had something to offer could play VFL to continue his development.

 

[JustaBattler]

If this was a once off and we looked at the game in isolation sure, but our form and style from 1st quarters or 1st halves to second halves across the season has been huge, its not a once off. I’ve seen you mention this before and put it on the players which is fine, i struggle to understand how a group can perform a certain way in a quarter across multiple games, then turn to absolute crap the next.

By us not being able to cope with injuries to key players, shows to me we have a game plan that relies too heavily on these players. Not just this year but the past few, as soon as a key players goes down, the whole set up seems to tank, i know i dont watch as much opposition matches as i used to but im not dumb enough to think other teams dont get injuries to important players.

What you say is just a fact of life.

Every team in the competition has the same problem - there are only so many match winners that any club can afford to have or have on its books- however if you live in a world where the two talls in a game are subbed out and it makes no difference to how the team performs- you are welcome to live in it - and do have fun.

If yu think that no Charlie or Harry in the forward line should be replaced by Young and Lemmey and perform the same way - send a letter to Santa Claus and ask for the Lotto numbers.

 

[JustaBattler]

Partly agree that the loss of our two big boys up front, had a lot to do with our change in game plan.

However, HOK and Charlie on one leg, were not really setting the world on fire. Yes, I do understand that structurally, we had to change things up.

Now the season is as good as gone, their are positives that I can see from our injuries. Getting plenty of games into our kids, is now really important. Young players can only improve so much at the VFL level. Time to now bring Billy in to create some run and carry off half back, which is desperately needed. Lemmey may play this week as well, he deserves a chance now that he has found a bit of mongrel at last. Moir has improved his fitness and is close to selection as well.

Things are not as bad as they seem. G.W. is exactly the right man for us now, he will not be afraid to make tough calls and if that means trading one or two of our best, then so be it. Crippa deserves a premiership medallion and G.W. needs to do whatever it takes to make this a real possibility.

Things are at the lower level of expectations for obvious reasons - anyone surprised about all this given the givens - is an entitled whisperer. An agent provocateur searching for validations from fellow types.

 

[DangerousD]

What you say is just a fact of life.

Every team in the competition has the same problem - there are only so many match winners that any club can afford to have or have on its books- however if you live in a world where the two talls in a game are subbed out and it makes no difference to how the team performs- you are welcome to live in it - and do have fun.

If yu think that no Charlie or Harry in the forward line should be replaced by Young and Lemmey and perform the same way - send a letter to Santa Claus and ask for the Lotto numbers.

Of course if you have your two tall forward options subbed out mid game it will have a negative affect on how you play, i dont dispute that.

Our second half fade outs have occurred nearly every game this year, it was not a one off against the worst team in the comp but a regular occurrence. Our inability to play consistent football from quarter to quarter can’t be blamed on in game injuries every week, all other teams deal with injuries.