List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[dragonsblues]

Big offseason changes afoot.

Almost all players outside of perhaps O hollands, Silvagni and Cerra have regressed.

Elijah doesn’t look like he will make it. We desperately need a smart coach who can formulate a game plan that meets or exceeds the quality of the list - like Collingwood has.

I want to be able to pluck duds like membrey and Cox, put them in a Carlton system and make them look afl standard.

 

[DollarsandSense]

Personally, if it came down to choosing between the two, I’d be more inclined to shop Charlie over McKay. While he's obviously a gifted goal-scorer, his lack of effort outside of hitting the scoreboard is pretty concerning — especially considering he’s our vice-captain and a supposed leader in the forward line. The pressure just isn’t there, and that’s hard to ignore.

As for Walsh, it’s a tough one. I absolutely wouldn’t want to see him traded, but I do wonder if his body is starting to let him down. If that’s the case, there might be a conversation to be had about whether we capitalise on his value while it’s still relatively high.

X2. He was putrid yesterday and has been for a while now. He just looks like he couldn’t gave 2 sh!ts about having a go.

 

[DollarsandSense]

Our footy club is at a real fork in the road moment

Sack the coach blow up the list ?
Sack the coach keep the list ?
Keep the coach blow up the list ?
Keep the coach keep the list ?

The problem we have is no one knows which way to go…..does Wright ?

Hopefully he does and hopefully he sacks the entire coaching group, moves the right players on and resets this place.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not at all, you take 100 game foot soldiers every day of the week with rookie picks. Jamison was a great rookie defence pick a while back.

My... annoyance, I suppose, is with posts that list players to build the next flag assault around in 5-10 years including a vast array of these sorts of players.

Idk, I look at our list/youth presently and just don't see it, maybe that's because the picks we've had have been predominantly late round picks and not premium talent.

Where to from here?

Blowing it up from top to bottom (head of football to ageing players) seems to be the play.

Yeah this has pretty much been my stance for a while with this group.

I get people not liking the idea of bottoming out again, saying there's no guarantee with draft picks etc.

But the facts are, with better draft picks comes a better chance at picking a gun player. Multiple top picks give you multiple opportunities at that.

All this talk about finding msd picks, rookies, 3rd/4th round picks... all while hanging onto the current crop... it's not a reliable strategy to build a premiership team.

The only to get the better picks is to get rid of some of the millionaires club who have it way to easy at Carlton. The players themselves should get us really good picks and losing them means we'll finish lower, leading to more better picks.

Tassie is coming in 2 years time, if we don't act right now we will be in for another 10 years+ of pain.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So much is going to come down to Walsh’s body. If he gets 100% fit again then I don’t see any major issues with the list.
We just gave up two first rounders for Smith so you have goto have faith that he will be a player. They both fit our needs perfectly.
TDK will leave a massive hole which I think we will have to try and fill cheaply.

It’s hard to know but you would expect that Williams, Gov, Saad, Doc and TDK are going to free up enough cap space over the next couple of years that we don’t have to force players out for financial reasons and should actually be able to target some. Next year there would be 15 half realistic options for us to pursue but the big problem is this season outside of Bergman there is little available.
Drafting our way out of this just isn’t going to work imo. We will have the TDK pick this year in a weak draft, then 26 will be wiped out with Walker and 27 is Tassie.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

X2. He was putrid yesterday and has been for a while now. He just looks like he couldn’t gave 2 sh!ts about having a go.

I agree that Charlie seems to be a problem but it also seems that Harry maybe needing a new environment and it’s been mentioned a bit that Sydney are right into him.

If Harry says he wants out, what do we do?

 

[SolGoodman]

I know it's been a tumultuous year, cemented by yesterdays game, however, maybe this needed to happen?

I honestly think the club was too timid to make any major change because of previous overreactions.

I know some of our fans are worried about us bottoming out again, but I honestly believe Graham Wright would want it this way, he now gets to mould the club in his image entirely, no questions asked.

and, as incomplete as our list is we are in so much of a better place than recent "rebuilds", this team can bounce back and be better than ever with some very smart list management that I believe we have the perfect man for the job to oversee such decisions.

I wanted Vossy to succeed, likeable bloke, champion player, however I think it's safe to say this journey is at its finish line.

This time however, I hope we make some major calls on our senior leaders, I was not just disappointed in them yesterday, I was disgusted.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Our footy club is at a real fork in the road moment

Sack the coach blow up the list ?
Sack the coach keep the list ?
Keep the coach blow up the list ?
Keep the coach keep the list ?

The problem we have is no one knows which way to go…..does Wright ?

Don't we?

Let's look at it...

Sack the coach keep the list ?
Been there done that... twice now pretty much.. it hasn't worked.

Keep the coach keep the list ?
We've done this for 4 years... missed finals, prelim, scraped finals and got humiliated, missed finals (looks like). It's not going to magically improve.

Keep the coach blow up the list ?
Doing this would put all the accountability on the players... Voss' track record suggests keeping him would be futile, he had his shot at adding to our list when he took over and he requested durable runners... that's what he got and now we're stuck with that decision... a midfield with too many similar types.

Sack the coach blow up the list ?
So this would be the way to go imo. Not all in one off season, but this year, we should start off with letting go of TDK and Harry. Doc, Acres... thanks very much, services no longer required. Brad Lloyd don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Saad, Williams and Gov bye bye next year. Walsh FA next year. Voss contract is over, services no longer required. Get the best coach we can possibly get and surround him with proper assistants... sack all existing, either this year or next, but they can't survive beyond 2026.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I agree that Charlie seems to be a problem but it also seems that Harry maybe needing a new environment and it’s been mentioned a bit that Sydney are right into him.

If Harry says he wants out, what do we do?

We trade him. No point keeping him, it would be almost untenable at that point. I think there's more to his knee injury too... it's speculation only on my part... but it seems very sus to me.

 

[branedotorg]

I will say that Charlie riding a bike to the MCG yesterday was emblematic of the 'just having a laugh' 'its only a job' vibe a lot of our fans think our player have.

 

[AB_Blue]

Don't we?

Let's look at it...

Sack the coach keep the list ?
Been there done that... twice now pretty much.. it hasn't worked.

Keep the coach keep the list ?
We've done this for 4 years... missed finals, prelim, scraped finals and got humiliated, missed finals (looks like). It's not going to magically improve.

Keep the coach blow up the list ?
Doing this would put all the accountability on the players... Voss' track record suggests keeping him would be futile, he had his shot at adding to our list when he took over and he requested durable runners... that's what he got and now we're stuck with that decision... a midfield with too many similar types.

Sack the coach blow up the list ?
So this would be the way to go imo. Not all in one off season, but this year, we should start off with letting go of TDK and Harry. Doc, Acres... thanks very much, services no longer required. Brad Lloyd don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Saad, Williams and Gov bye bye next year. Walsh FA next year. Voss contract is over, services no longer required. Get the best coach we can possibly get and surround him with proper assistants... sack all existing, either this year or next, but they can't survive beyond 2026.

Hmmm so a little of 4 in that…might be the way to go

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

The VFL ruckman Flynn Riley? looked eye opening good and special. List please

We have had a local lad that plays ruck for the Essendon Reserves. Lachie Monteath. Played first game last week and second this week and was best on. Amazing athletic ability but needs some size. Huge Carlton supporter too. Would be worth a look.

 

[DangerousD]

The compo pick for losing TDK is not going to bring in a player with >= value to TDK. So we will be WORSE off next year like it or not.

We have gone over your other points enough so I’ll just quote the above and say I disagree.

A compo pick is currently 10 but I think we will slip and it’ll be 7-8.

I think we can get better output than what TDK offers.

I thinks realistic to trade 8 down to 13 and get a pick in the 20s.

13 should be enough for Bergman and the 20s pick for Florent.

A trade like this, or similar would improve the team

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We have gone over your other points enough so I’ll just quote the above and say I disagree.

A compo pick is currently 10 but I think we will slip and it’ll be 7-8.

I think we can get better output than what TDK offers.

I thinks realistic to trade 8 down to 13 and get a pick in the 20s.

13 should be enough for Bergman and the 20s pick for Florent.

A trade like this, or similar would improve the team

Except, 13 will slip to mid 20's...

pick in the 20's will probably be in the 40's...

Bergman is not going to improve us much, certainly won't make up for the loss of TDK...

Plus, Bergman will likely be a 7 year contract... no way would I be willing to take that on...

 

[95blues]

We trade him. No point keeping him, it would be almost untenable at that point. I think there's more to his knee injury too... it's speculation only on my part... but it seems very sus to me.

I like Harry, nice guy.

But he doesnt want it bad enough. Straight legged jumping into packs, so careful in his approach. Big man with little man movement. Nobody cares if hes coming up behind the pack, he'll gently reach over everyone.

This and his concussion history.

 

[Baxter Wolf]

Its so frustrating looking at our list and just thinking what if SPS Dow & Obrien picks hadnt of been pissed away and we got something out of them. But anyway here we are.

Could of had LDU instead of Dow, but the real kicker is Fogarty for O'Brien. Even Peter Street had more balance and poise than him. I can't remember who we could have for SPS - I think it may have been Scharenberg, who was also a bust. Please correct if I'm wrong on the last observation

 

[JJBagger]

Could of had LDU instead of Dow, but the real kicker is Fogarty for O'Brien. Even Peter Street had more balance and poise than him. I can't remember who we could have for SPS - I think it may have been Scharenberg, who was also a bust. Please correct if I'm wrong on the last observation

If we are lamenting picking Lochie O’Brien over Darcy Fogarty, then we are a lost cause as a fanbase

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Best way to get out of this mess is to go to the draft over the next 2-3 years. Plus bring in a coach that is up to it. Yeah I know this years draft is compromised but trading in 1 or 2 players just won’t cut it.

The problem is much deeper than 1-2 middling players we may bring into the club. We need at least 10 players over the next couple of years, plus some savvy trades to sort this sinking ship.

If everyone is comfortable with Durdin, Motlop, Docherty, Acres, Pittonet, Binns, Fogarty, Fantasia and Carroll to a degree types taking up more than a 1/3 of our game day team, then sure, let’s just pretend like we are still in the window.

 

[Beyond Blue]

If we are lamenting picking Lochie O’Brien over Darcy Fogarty, then we are a lost cause as a fanbase

Could of had LDU instead of Dow, but the real kicker is Fogarty for O'Brien. Even Peter Street had more balance and poise than him. I can't remember who we could have for SPS - I think it may have been Scharenberg, who was also a bust. Please correct if I'm wrong on the last observation

Dow and Samo were consensus top 10 picks. The fact they didn’t come along was a club development issue not talent ID. The one that sucked during the SOS reign was the first round pick swap to get Stocker and miss out on Sering or Young the year after. The sort of deal you do to get a gun midfielder yielded us a bloke no other club rated very highly and is currently at his second club struggling to run out games as a back pocket. Then to add insult to injury splitting the downgraded pick and bypassing Bergman, Day, Flanders, Pickett and Weightman to get Kemp and Philp.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I will say that Charlie riding a bike to the MCG yesterday was emblematic of the 'just having a laugh' 'its only a job' vibe a lot of our fans think our player have.

Its ridiculous. Drop him.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Best way to get out of this mess is to go to the draft over the next 2-3 years. Plus bring in a coach that is up to it. Yeah I know this years draft is compromised but trading in 1 or 2 players just won’t cut it.

The problem is much deeper than 1-2 middling players we may bring into the club. We need at least 10 players over the next couple of years, plus some savvy trades to sort this sinking ship.

If everyone is comfortable with Durdin, Motlop, Docherty, Acres, Pittonet, Binns, Fogarty, Fantasia and Carroll to a degree types taking up more than a 1/3 of our game day team, then sure, let’s just pretend like we are still in the window.

As depressing as it is... it is the truth.

People just can't accept it... it's hard sometimes to accept reality.

But the club needs to have the ability to see the forest from the trees...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Could of had LDU instead of Dow, but the real kicker is Fogarty for O'Brien. Even Peter Street had more balance and poise than him. I can't remember who we could have for SPS - I think it may have been Scharenberg, who was also a bust. Please correct if I'm wrong on the last observation

It was Ed Richards who we were into... until he didn't turn up on time...

 

[Aphrodite]

I will say that Charlie riding a bike to the MCG yesterday was emblematic of the 'just having a laugh' 'its only a job' vibe a lot of our fans think our player have.

 

[btdg]

I will say that Charlie riding a bike to the MCG yesterday was emblematic of the 'just having a laugh' 'its only a job' vibe a lot of our fans think our player have.

Something very wrong with Charlie at the moment.

He has kicked 14.7 in first quarters this year. If he sustained that for the game it is good enough to win the Coleman by a mile and close to 100 goals for the year, with good accuracy.

He is kicked 13.10 after quarter time in 13 matches this year. That is the equivalent of a 30 goal season = bog average.

In his last 4 games Curnow has 5.4 in the first quarter, and has not kicked a goal after quarter time. That's in matches against 8th, 13th, 16th and 18th on the ladder.

FOr what it is worth, Carlton players other than Curnow have 14 first quarter goals in those games, and 26 afterwards. Still a slightly higher first quarter rate but not that big a discrepancy. We piled on 5.4 to no score in the last quarter against North and Curnow did not score, did not take a mark, and had only 3 touches.

EIther he is carrying an injury or there is something else bizarre going on. The bike has to be related to that imo.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Cripps & ___ for Harley Reid?

Trading Cripps is more about clearing cap space to get 2 x best 22 players than it is what we get for him in a direct trade as we probably won’t get much for him due to his age, certainly not Harley Reid, who in any event is not what we need. Getting 2 good players like Bailey (or Bergman) and Florent for an aging star is the purpose of the trade.

Obviously TDK may decide to take the money in which case the decision is out of our hands but my preference is to keep him provided it’s on our terms as he is in his prime and could be part of a flag winning team still. Sadly I think that moment has passed Cripps so at his age and salary he is the most expendable of the core senior group.

I also think the decision to move a star player has more power if it comes from the club rather than than the player. It will put others on notice. This playing group seem to have too much power and that needs to addressed. I reckon the penny will drop if Cripps is traded. It’ll send a very clear message to the group. Let the Captain emerge from preseason.

In the background I’d also like to see us make a call on Voss one way or all other. Either tell him he’s safe or sack him so whoever is coaching is under no pressure to play players who are injured. Spells Walsh, McKay and even Curnow for the rest of this year to get them right for 2026.

Do all this and IMO we could be competing next year and beyond for an extended period. If we blow up the list and get a new coach then we are 5-6 years way from being competitive. The new coach will want time to bed down a game plan that’ll be highly reliant on draftees taken in highly compromised drafts so there will a minimum of 3-4 years of utter misery on field to get through before we’d be remotely close to competing.