bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
Tigers were going nowhere before Nank showed up. Massively important to their dynasty.
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Big call I like it.
4flagsin5yrs
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Gawn was the main reason they got to the GF.
Bletch
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- Dec 8, 2020
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Harry Madden. Constantly underrated, but a huge part of our success in '87 and '95.
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- Jun 4, 2016
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Meaningless... Any players salary that isn't indexed with cap increasing should fire their manager immediately because they'd be one of not many.
You’ve got at least 2 clubs (+80 players) that roll that way.
- Mar 20, 2017
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In the grand final (which the Dogs looked like they were going to run all over the dees at one stage) Gawn had 21 disposals and 30 hit outs. Gawn & Jackson literally force fed their midfield in the third and fourth quarters when they kicked 16 goals to 3.
It was about the most dominant rucking display I've ever seen.
PenskeFile
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The Crows used to boast about their spare cap after a TV deal increase because they didn’t index. It creates problems I reckon, they have had major retention issues (though obviously other factors involved as well).
PenskeFile
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These deals that get quoted by the journalists often have a lot of mayo included and are the absolute maximum the player can earn with bonuses
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You don't think the Dogs stopping had anything to do with that?
I can't see the Dees losing that game with a couple of lesser ruckman.
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Yeah, let's pretend that there weren't a host of other players in that team that played high level football.
Face the facts, whilst Gawn obviously helped their cause, they would have won it without him.
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JustOneTime
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Let's clean this argument up on rucks.
The essence of what Blue is trying to say is that paying ruckman big salaries is fraught with danger. Anyone remember Corey mckernan. Won a brownlow one year then ran under the ball the whole next season and was invisible. Hero to almost zero. A few rucks are consistent (generational rucks), the rest are up and down and not worth big dollars.
Of course an elite ruckman can impact a game or final. We have even seen with TDK, his huge impact vs Brissy last year....but then again, i've seen Witts destroy TDK and hand GC the game because of his destruction of TDK.
IMO, it must be 60-75%+ of the rucks add little game in game out each season.
So the wider point Blue Fusion is making is valid because TDK hasnt shown the consistency to match the dollars. He has a high ceiling and low floor right now. And other posters are right in that we just have to pay it and there really isnt any choice, not really. We just have to hope he franks the quality that goes with the contract. Who really wants to contemplate Pitto...I hear silence to that one for sure.
So it is right right mostly...obviously, people want to turn it into a generational elite ruck debate but that really isnt central to what outcome we want to realise. The outcome is, He isnt worth it, not really, and we have to pay it regardless.
The essence of what Blue is trying to say is that paying ruckman big salaries is fraught with danger. Anyone remember Corey mckernan. Won a brownlow one year then ran under the ball the whole next season and was invisible. Hero to almost zero. A few rucks are consistent (generational rucks), the rest are up and down and not worth big dollars.
Of course an elite ruckman can impact a game or final. We have even seen with TDK, his huge impact vs Brissy last year....but then again, i've seen Witts destroy TDK and hand GC the game because of his destruction of TDK.
IMO, it must be 60-75%+ of the rucks add little game in game out each season.
So the wider point Blue Fusion is making is valid because TDK hasnt shown the consistency to match the dollars. He has a high ceiling and low floor right now. And other posters are right in that we just have to pay it and there really isnt any choice, not really. We just have to hope he franks the quality that goes with the contract. Who really wants to contemplate Pitto...I hear silence to that one for sure.
So it is right right mostly...obviously, people want to turn it into a generational elite ruck debate but that really isnt central to what outcome we want to realise. The outcome is, He isnt worth it, not really, and we have to pay it regardless.
WCE’s were 1 club & when Vosso moved to ESS, they implemented it as well.
I’d like to think that our big $ deals are set figures which then gives us wriggle room as the cap expands.
Harry was a terrific player, spot on played a huge part of our success…
Dean Cox and Simon Madden for me are the best two ruckman in my lifetime, both sit above all others..
Or possibly the SSP decision?
- Mar 20, 2017
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See there's two parts to the argument here.
The first is whether ruckmen have played significant roles in getting their teams to grand finals and then winning them.. clearly the answer to this is yes there have been some examples including Gawn (and Jackson) in 2021. Saying simply that the Bulldogs stopped is palpably wrong.
However there are significantly more examples of teams winning premierships in recent times without a dominant ruckman . That is clearly the case. There is no requirement to have a dominant ruck to win a premiership.
The second part of the equation is - what's the maximum you should pay a ruckman? The Grundy situation was a good example of a team getting burned by wanting to keep a ruck on board. Ironically though it actually didn’t hurt the Pies. We all laughed at the time when the were paying part of his salary to play elsewhere but they just made the adjustment, moved on and pretty much won a flag straight away.
So to summarise, top match ruckmen can help you win a flag but far more often than not aren't required (a genuine workhorse that remains injury free can do the job). We need to make TDK an offer that works for us but shows that we are keen to keep him and the fabric of the team together. If that's not enough for him then we say goodbye, bank the extra salary cap and draft pick and identify our next workhorse (and probably get active in the free agency space with the salary cap we have leftover)
There’s no reason we can’t sign TDK and then in a couple years he asks for a trade and we get fairer value when HOK is ready to take over. Pick 10-18 in comp is not enough.
Normally, I don't really rate ruckman that highly, and in the last 2 decades perhaps only Cox and Gawn would be ranked as elite, winning flags
I think TDK has the potential to be one of the best ruckmen in the league, who will also get better resting forward
Given the likely FA compensation, a team still with a strong age profile, and the current cap, 1.1 mil isn't unreasonable
I think TDK has the potential to be one of the best ruckmen in the league, who will also get better resting forward
Given the likely FA compensation, a team still with a strong age profile, and the current cap, 1.1 mil isn't unreasonable
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Agree with both but Gawn IMO, has now passed them.
4flagsin5yrs
Norm Smith Medallist
Some people have very short memories....
Without Max, they finish third and face Port in Port...
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Absolutely spot on we are not in a strong position with any compensation for TDK, a compensation pick 10-20 is a poor outcome the club knowing his capabilities and upside it is absolute no brainer to lock him away, he is a key piece of any potential premiership challenge in the next 2-3 years whilst we have this list.
As for the comments from some ruckman are not important, would rather have a good one than have to find another 2nd tier ruck, similar to others TDK adds so much more a real point of difference.
Bfevola
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I dont think TDK is just a pure ruckman. This is a point no one is making here.
He can easily be a key forward, or a back as well. Something we are lacking - a swingman..
I would argue he is another midfielder as a ruck too.
He is not your normal lumbering ruckman. He is a modern day one.
Different from Grundy right there. He is more similar to Gawn in these traits than grundy.
He can easily be a key forward, or a back as well. Something we are lacking - a swingman..
I would argue he is another midfielder as a ruck too.
He is not your normal lumbering ruckman. He is a modern day one.
Different from Grundy right there. He is more similar to Gawn in these traits than grundy.
Fair enough
He’s in the conversation, but imo hasn’t surpassed both of them…
Magnificent ruckman though, you would take any of the three in a heartbeat…
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Sorry mate might be obvious but what's the link between TDK potentially re-signing and Lemmey needing to have made progress?
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