List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[TheBlueCampaigner]

We need a sad little kid down on their luck to send TDK the last 20c from their piggy bank and ask that he stays.

It’s worth a shot. That shit worked on Chris Grant.

 

[Coops93]

Plenty of people on only ~ $200k try to recover every single penny from work related expenses and are tight in general.

It’s easy to be generous/play down importance of money with other peoples income.

Let’s get real…

$1.1M v $1.7M is a hugely huge difference.

I've tried to make this point too but people don't care to accept it. It's a life changing difference no matter which way you look at it. It's not like he's taking an extra 50k and gone pure mercenary going to who's paying the most, you're talking a difference of an entire AFL contract.

600k a year is a decent B grader range of pay, we've offered an A graders contract, but with them he's getting the A graders contract with an extra B graders contract on top. Just crazy money, he'd be crazy not to take it.

If he chooses to stay he may just be the most loyal player in the competition, and potentially the most loyal the games seen.

 

[Coops93]

You're projecting as a fan who doesn't actually have to make the decision.

You want happiness and success to be his motivating factor. Maybe a flag just isn't that important to him. Fun little tidbit - there are 139 players currently active on AFL lists who have won a premiership. There are 765 total players active on club lists. So less than 20% of current players have had "success".

Found some historical research from back in 2012 that someone had done up to that point. From 1897 to 2011, the figure was around 12% of total players had won a premiership during their career.

So from a success perspective - not only is there never a guarantee, but the odds are stacked very much against any given player winning a flag. I don't think TDK could definitively say that he'd have a better chance with one or the other of Carlton and St Kilda - both clubs are very much in a precarious position with regards to their prospects over the next 5-10 years. Maybe TDK isn't hellbent on a flag regardless, maybe he just enjoys getting paid to play footy.

And happiness? Come off it - he's not gonna get blacklisted by any of his mates at Carlton if he takes a stupidly good offer from another club. The players all know how the league works, and aren't going to begrudge him cashing in on the biggest offer the league has yet seen. Not only that...you know what, he's probably got good mates outside the club, and would easily make new friends at St Kilda too. He's not going to become some lonely old spinster as a result of moving clubs for a massive payday.

Further to all that, who's to say he's choosing money over success, anyway?

Is it really a guarantee that he's more successful staying here? What are we basing that off? We've fallen off a cliff since our 1 good finals run 2 years ago, who are we to say we're the side that'll give him success?

I remember Adelaide making exactly the same criticism publicly of Lever. How did that work out? Lever got the money and the premiership. Adelaide flopped to the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Red Bull]

NWM will either stay at the saints or go to SA

Nice of him to let you know that.
Regardless, if TDK leaves, we’ll have $1m handy to have a chat about with him and his manager.
At the very least it puts more heat on Silvagni and the Saints salary cap …

 

[juzza316]

It does not matter how the deal is cut it is a ridiculous amount of $, he could potentially be paid double what Marshall is earning, that is bound to cause disharmony in the group & implications for future list management decisions.

One player is not going to make them go bottom mid-lower tier team to a top four team.

Of course it matters how the deal is cut, they need to spend the money they have been building. HereComesJuddy's post is spot on.

Also, don't think this will cause disharmony - it will probably motivate them as a group even more knowing they are bringing talent in the door!

Currently they are a middle of the road team, the addition of TDK plus growth in their young players will see them go up the ladder in the coming years (IMO).

We are going to be sad watching him tear it up for those peasants for 7 years

 

[JJBagger]

Nice of him to let you know that.
Regardless, if TDK leaves, we’ll have $1m handy to have a chat about with him and his manager.
At the very least it puts more heat on Silvagni and the Saints salary cap …

Sorry, I forgot that every player in the comp wants to come to Carlton. My bad

 

[ctwenty1]

Is the 1.7m offer over the duration or is it front loaded? I assume the numbers are fact and not rumour

 

[The Bighouse]

You're projecting as a fan who doesn't actually have to make the decision.

You want happiness and success to be his motivating factor. Maybe a flag just isn't that important to him. Fun little tidbit - there are 139 players currently active on AFL lists who have won a premiership. There are 765 total players active on club lists. So less than 20% of current players have had "success".

Found some historical research from back in 2012 that someone had done up to that point. From 1897 to 2011, the figure was around 12% of total players had won a premiership during their career.

So from a success perspective - not only is there never a guarantee, but the odds are stacked very much against any given player winning a flag. I don't think TDK could definitively say that he'd have a better chance with one or the other of Carlton and St Kilda - both clubs are very much in a precarious position with regards to their prospects over the next 5-10 years. Maybe TDK isn't hellbent on a flag regardless, maybe he just enjoys getting paid to play footy.

And happiness? Come off it - he's not gonna get blacklisted by any of his mates at Carlton if he takes a stupidly good offer from another club. The players all know how the league works, and aren't going to begrudge him cashing in on the biggest offer the league has yet seen. Not only that...you know what, he's probably got good mates outside the club, and would easily make new friends at St Kilda too. He's not going to become some lonely old spinster as a result of moving clubs for a massive payday.

Don’t know about that…he’ll be straight out of the WhatsApp group chat!

 

[2blue4u]

Is the 1.7m offer over the duration or is it front loaded? I assume the numbers are fact and not rumour

My guess is these are numbers leaked by TDKs management. Media have hyped it up. As far as I am aware Saints haven't confirmed or denied this offer. Wouldn't be a good management team if they weren't out there inflating their clients worth.

Edit. I am pretty sure that would make TDK the highest paid player in the AFL by quite a margin. Which seems a bit ridiculous to me.

The highest paid players in the AFL as rich list revealed

More players than ever before were paid more than $1 million last year

www.afl.com.au

 

[Red Bull]

Sorry, I forgot that every player in the comp wants to come to Carlton. My bad

Drivel … and nobody ever suggested it …

 

[macky99]

Of course it matters how the deal is cut, they need to spend the money they have been building. HereComesJuddy's post is spot on.

Also, don't think this will cause disharmony - it will probably motivate them as a group even more knowing they are bringing talent in the door!

Currently they are a middle of the road team, the addition of TDK plus growth in their young players will see them go up the ladder in the coming years (IMO).

We are going to be sad watching him tear it up for those peasants for 7 years

Gee l would love you to sell that story to Rohan Marshall, we actually think TDK is worth double your current pay rate, you seriously have to be joking.

lf you were in a workplace and someone with similar qualifications to yourself and you found out they were being paid double your rate, you would accept that, absolutely no way be accepting of that.

 

[The Bighouse]

My guess is these are numbers leaked by TDKs management. Media have hyped it up. As far as I am aware Saints haven't confirmed or denied this offer. Wouldn't be a good management team if they weren't out there inflating their clients worth.

Edit. I am pretty sure that would make TDK the highest paid player in the AFL by quite a margin. Which seems a bit ridiculous to me.

The highest paid players in the AFL as rich list revealed

More players than ever before were paid more than $1 million last year

www.afl.com.au

Don’t think any club comments on their offers to players through the media or in public.

 

[Coops93]

Is the 1.7m offer over the duration or is it front loaded? I assume the numbers are fact and not rumour

It's the average per year over the contact.

It has been rumoured to be front loaded which would probably make the first year or 2 over $2m a year. I remember reading an article suggesting he'd be over $2m next yr if he accepts it.

 

[2blue4u]

Don’t think any club comments on their offers to players through the media or in public.

Exactly so these numbers come from somewhere which is why I believe it came from TDKs management.

 

[Garters]

Not sure how much my life would be different if I had $10M instead of $6M dollars?

The marginal benefit of each additional dollar actually decreases the higher things get.

How many ivory backscratchers can you buy until you are sick of it?

It's an interesting point you raise and a valid one. It is called the Easterlin Paradox. The correlation between money and happiness. It is a relationship that is poorly defined and while richer people are happier than poorer people, rich needs to be clearly defined and in relationship to happiness we are talking very different notion of 'rich' to what we are discussing in this thread. Think of developed country v 3rd world country per capita income levels. This is due to the stress of basic needs not being met.
Same within developed countries like us just a higher dollar need, in terms of having enough to put a roof over your head, kids in activities, capacity for social outlets, etc.
Once basic needs are met the relationship breaks down much quicker than people think. The way we are wired, hedonistic tendency, security of gains and other hard wired response mechanisms cause commensurate levels of stress, cancelling out the perceived happiness provided by said wealth.
It is a bell curve. Happiness rises lock step with income to a point but never past it. Personal behaviours, social structures, optimistic v pessimistic personality types then take over again regardless of the wealth once needs are met.
The number is much lower than most think. Numerous studies and research papers while not conclusive all arrive at a bell curve with increase in happiness v increase in wealth plateauing out at between just below 100k out to bit less than 200k per year. Variances being to the fact it is an inexact science, different personality types have different thresholds etc, however those that have tried modelling the economics of happiness all arrive at a similar destination

Beyond that the relationship breaks down materially. In my line of work I manage a lot of miserable buggers worth fortunes, and lovely old guys and girls commensurately cashed up.

Your approach to how you live your life, mental health etc, strong social networks, interests determines one's happiness, not balance sheet.

Have seen a lot learn this the hard way. Working 100 hr weeks, multiple marriages, kids with little respect bar for the platinum Amex. They sell the business, come to us with a 25m cheque only to find out that personal relationships remain torched, they get bored, also frustrated without purpose as they don't have the business. But hey they have 25m invested. Rinse repeat. You basically become their psychologist more so than their investment team! Not all cases but is a common theme.

Its a fascinating topic. If TDK in intrinsically happy and a commensurate alternative offer is on the table by CFC that I am sure is there abouts. It is not a simple case of take additional cash and run.
The risks to happiness and career satisfaction are stacked against him leaving for a dollar based amount when its only in the vicinity being talked about.

New environment, stress of having to perform, new colleagues/ relationships, post move regret etc. Lot to weigh up. Hope he has some good people in his corner that don't let his manager cloud his judgement whereby his manager is just chasing a clip of the ticket under the guise of 'getting the best outcome for Tom'.. Please.

 

[Benaly28]

Something from left field.

With the pick we get for TDK and money we save ‘could’ we chase someone like a Butters?

 

[juzza316]

Gee l would love you to sell that story to Rohan Marshall, we actually think TDK is worth double your current pay rate, you seriously have to be joking.

lf you were in a workplace and someone with similar qualifications to yourself and you found out they were being paid double your rate, you would accept that, absolutely no way be accepting of that.

So Marshall is on $850k so we can't spend more than that otherwise he will get annoyed? LOL what a load of tripe! that isn't how the AFL works and paying NOTHING in terms of draft or trade for a potential superstar.

And since when has the AFL been a normal workplace? Ridiculous comparison.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Something from left field.

With the pick we get for TDK and money we save ‘could’ we chase someone like a Butters?

Yes, but it would take more than the compo pick. We'd need to keep our 2026 first rounder for Cody Walker, so best we'd be offering Port as a starting point would be the compo pick this year (5-15, who knows) and our 2027 first rounder. They'd likely want more, so then we'd be having to look at a player for them, or a player to go elsewhere for another pick.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Now ask Brett Ratten..

Brett would be an ideal ex-player to ask about the CFC networking opportunities.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Gee l would love you to sell that story to Rohan Marshall, we actually think TDK is worth double your current pay rate, you seriously have to be joking.

lf you were in a workplace and someone with similar qualifications to yourself and you found out they were being paid double your rate, you would accept that, absolutely no way be accepting of that.

There's an understanding that FAs get a premium $, because 0 draft picks.

Zac Williams hasn't played as well as other players on $900k, but he cost us 0 draft picks so got a premium.

 

[juzza316]

There's an understanding that FAs get a premium $, because 0 draft picks.

Zac Williams hasn't played as well as other players on $900k, but he cost us 0 draft picks so got a premium.

And Jack Martin.

 

[macky99]

So Marshall is on $850k so we can't spend more than that otherwise he will get annoyed? LOL what a load of tripe! that isn't how the AFL works and paying NOTHING in terms of draft or trade for a potential superstar.

And since when has the AFL been a normal workplace? Ridiculous comparison.

Absolutely same logic applies why would it not, the rumoured $ 1.7k is inflated no way is TDK worth remotely close to that number.

The strong clubs don't do rubbish deals like this, you are missing the point if St Kilda pay TDK $1.7m with Marshall approx $850k they are valuing his worth double that of Marshall anyone that thinks that is good list management has no idea.
The players that go to teams like Geelong go for much broader reasons than $, tell me where the two ruckman combo has actually worked at all.

 

[macky99]

There's an understanding that FAs get a premium $, because 0 draft picks.

Zac Williams hasn't played as well as other players on $900k, but he cost us 0 draft picks so got a premium.

Zac Williams great example of overpaying for a overrated player that has caused challenges with our salary cap.

 

[Coops93]

The strong clubs don't do rubbish deals like this,

Not really true. They do probably just as much as anyone else.

Melbourne brought in Lever & May in on big money from other clubs, won a flag. Richmond targeted Tom Lynch on big money and despite already have Riewoldt. Sydney brought in Tippett (at the time was an expensive inclusion) and Buddy.
Hawthorn brought in many players, Brian Lake was huge, Tom Mitchell (past their prem years but still the same group). Brisbane brough in Neale & Daniher in particular on big money at the time.

Successful clubs spend big money on acquisitions too.

 

[The Bighouse]

And Jack Martin.

Was going to cost us picks so a different scenario.
PSD due to GCFC stance on our “inadequate” trade offer/s.