List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[St Neil]

Id say its my floor.

Ultimately we have to be reasonable, we can demand whatever we like, we can carry on like pricks and threaten the PSD and all that and all we really do is risk losing face with the AFL and the player managers (which i couldnt really care about) and losing face with NAS (which i do care about).

If its a go home trade for an uncontracted player there has to be a degree of reasonability from the side losing the player, you dont have to like it (ive made it clear i dont) but thats the world we live in.

We wont get fair value for NAS, we have to accept that, what you consider to be something you can live with and something that wont make us look like were being completely pricks to NAS and the footballing world is subjetive.

Bergman and a first (given we were into Bergman) is, IMO at least, something that we will look shitty if we refuse.
Berry and two firsts (or Whitlock and a first i suppose even though i hate it) is getting towards something we look shitty if we refuse.
Three fists is probably the same as the above (although i think its easier to sell three first being shit as theyre more unknown).

If you dont care how we look and how NAS views us then sure, demand Butters and a first, i dont think thats being reasonable personally.

This is why I keep saying that any trade is going to be just as difficult for the nominated club as well as the losing club.

It seems that both the Power and Crows want NWM but neither wants or is able to give up player assets to facilitate it.

Unless they do the whole thing will end up in a stalemate. The notion that Saints only accept Bergman and a F1 for Nas isn’t reasonable, to the point where Saints just wouldn’t accept that unless the first was a top 3 pick. And nor should they.

Both Crows and Power would realise this. My belief is that until NWM nominates a club (if he decides to go home) both clubs will continue to say that none of their players are available for any trade.

But when a club is nominated their attitude will suddenly change. They will move heaven and earth to get a deal done. The dynamics will have changed.

And as I said in a recent post, the draft picks of Richmond or Essendon will possibly be crucial in facilitating any trade. And that will be problematic. The nominated club will have to give up plenty to get a hold of those picks.

Hopefully all of this discussion is irrelevant anyway and Nasiah re-signs with Saints.

 

[SinCitySainter]

Berry, Bergman and a future first probably gets it done.

Saints fans will say it's not enough, but Nas is not contracted, and try as we might we haven't secured his signature.

Port fans will say it's too much, and they can just walk him to the PSD. But Nas is a bonafide star, and I don't think he even nominates without a clear road to the club he wants to get to.

The interesting thing will be if Bergman doesn't actually want to come to us, or if Port are unwilling to let him go. Then they need to find a top 10 picks to go with Berry and their future first. It was an interesting play by Port to secure Bergman f they knew they were going to be making a big play for Nas, but then again Port have made some all round interesting calls in their pursuit of Nas, suggesting that maybe they weren't that interested until his recent spike in form.

It's an interesting year this year as you'd think that all of Gold Coast, Carlton, and Sydney would be looking to move on their first picks in the draft, Brisbane as well but that's probably less relevant here. Could Port move a bunch of B graders on for 2nd and 3rd rounders, and then bundle them up for one of those firsts? Drew, Sinn, Whitlock and Farrell would probably get them picks with points, and they've got their own 2nd and 3rd to play with. Maybe they can, but at the same time, a lot of clubs will be targetting those picks this year.

I actually think signing Bergman was the smart play by Port. At the time they signed him most things were pointing to Nas staying and not signing Miles was tantamount to saying "We want Nas and you are just a bargaining chip." In that situation Miles may have pushed for a trade even without Nas going to Port, now he is not even on the table unless Nas is. They can still trade him if he agrees but now the conversation is far more favourable for Port if they ask if he would consider being part of a trade.

 

[CursingFijian]

Agree, I thought it was a tad disrespectful IMO. Steele playing his 200th who’s been captain of the club for however many games, and all they want to talk about is how he was sub last week (to manage his load).

When Geelong do it it's cutting edge scientific based progressive list management.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Either
1. Bergman + future first + Berry (with something going back to even up the trade)
or
2. Butters + Berry (with something going back to even up the trade)

Why does there always have to be something going back the other way , seems like a catch phrase that everyone pulls out just because they heard it somewhere else and thought it was cool

Why would you need to give them something back on the Butters and Berry deal, Berry was pick 15 so if you go giving something back you're basically saying he is now a top 10 pick which he is nowhere near, your first option is us getting 3 middle of the road players as the future first is most likely going to be just a mid round pick and neither or the other two are stars , Bergman had a few decent games during the year but doubt he improves us a lot, No way would i accept your first option for Nas and not a chance in hell you would give them anything back

 

[CaptainRisky]

Im sure every player sitting in a room with teammates and coaches would say they dont wanna burn them.

Post his exit interview when hes back in SA with family and wants a trade i doubt hell give a rats ass how it all gets done (and nor should he)

The point I'm making is that he has never said it not that any of us have heard anyway, I'm also betting he hasn't said it to his team mates, no way would it be kept secret if he had told them that

 

[phantom13]

This is why I keep saying that any trade is going to be just as difficult for the nominated club as well as the losing club.

It seems that both the Power and Crows want NWM but neither wants or is able to give up player assets to facilitate it.

Unless they do the whole thing will end up in a stalemate. The notion that Saints only accept Bergman and a F1 for Nas isn’t reasonable, to the point where Saints just wouldn’t accept that unless the first was a top 3 pick. And nor should they.

Both Crows and Power would realise this. My belief is that until NWM nominates a club (if he decides to go home) both clubs will continue to say that none of their players are available for any trade.

But when a club is nominated their attitude will suddenly change. They will move heaven and earth to get a deal done. The dynamics will have changed.

And as I said in a recent post, the draft picks of Richmond or Essendon will possibly be crucial in facilitating any trade. And that will be problematic. The nominated club will have to give up plenty to get a hold of those picks.

Hopefully all of this discussion is irrelevant anyway and Nasiah re-signs with Saints.

Yeh thats fair, again, id prefer a US system where players can just get traded so when we say "Bergman, Berry and a first" Port can just make them all go, unfortunately we dont have that system.

To be clear about Bergman and 1 FF. If its 6.55pm on deadline day and its clear Port CANT make anything else work, theres no third party coming to help and no other players want in then id say we blink. Its not prepoustroualy low, by that point we will have courted Bergman etc etc. By that point we lose more and we potentially burn Nas by not being reasonable. You can debate that point if you want, i also wouldnt lose sleep if we said no to it. Its my floor trade and i hope we demand and get more.

 

[phantom13]

Why does there always have to be something going back the other way , seems like a catch phrase that everyone pulls out just because they heard it somewhere else and thought it was cool

Why would you need to give them something back on the Butters and Berry deal, Berry was pick 15 so if you go giving something back you're basically saying he is now a top 10 pick which he is nowhere near, your first option is us getting 3 middle of the road players as the future first is most likely going to be just a mid round pick and neither or the other two are stars , Bergman had a few decent games during the year but doubt he improves us a lot, No way would i accept your first option for Nas and not a chance in hell you would give them anything back

In the Butters and Berry case in particular if its actually Butters and not the picks Butters get then Port are paying a fair way over.

Butters and Nas are about equivalent in value IMO and Berry is a first round pick who looks like a first round pick, we would need to give something back for that to be equitable (especially considering Nas is the one who wants to leave, Butters is likely doing it because were paying him)

 

[Diehard Saint]

The crazy thing about NAS is he's so good that he's changing narratives about us. We haven't had a player be this mainstream and relevant in the national consciousness. I have friends who regularly treat the Saints as a punching bag who all admit how important it is for NAS to stay for the integrity of the competition and for small clubs to be able to believe in building through the draft. It's good to see the people are mostly behind us even if the media isn't. Noone really wants to see NAS leave, otherwise whats the point in even trying?

Actually, a lot of the media is.

Just not the Tom Morris’ of this world who are licking their lips at the thoughts of Saints being smacked down again.

Excluding the Saints media guys, all of King, Cornes, Healey, Lyon, Whateley ( I think) have all expressed a desire to see us retain NAS.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Here's what no one is saying on the Ben Williams bit: it's in Williams' interest to sign the longest, most lucrative deal possible. But it's length is as important as the yearly salary, because it locks in Williams' commission. Any shorter deal increases the risk that Nas changes managers and then any future contract commission goes to that agent and not to Williams.

To me the advice here would be straight forward.

Sign with St Kilda for 8 years if you want to stay. If you choose to leave anytime during that period then we will request a trade.
Contracted players get traded all of the time. Is it more difficult? Yes. Is it uncommon? No.
Everyone wins.

 

[MrFoster]

On other subjects:

1. Collard to West coast for late first round/early second round pick
2. Steele to West coast for late first round pick
3. Aleer ($550k a year for 3 years) to saints for 2nd round pick
4. Marshall to Geelong for late first round pick

The net result is 2 late first round picks + a first from Nas trade.
Could potentially go into the draft with 4 first round draft picks + TDK + Aleer + Bergman or Butters + Berry

Very busy off-season..

 

[stfan]

We may as well ask port for Rozee at that point.

We at least Rozee grew up a St Kilda supporter in a St Kilda supporting family

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

On other subjects:

1. Collard to West coast for late first round/early second round pick
2. Steele to West coast for late first round pick
3. Aleer ($550k a year for 3 years) to saints for 2nd round pick
4. Marshall to Geelong for late first round pick

The net result is 2 late first round picks + a first from Nas trade.
Could potentially go into the draft with 4 first round draft picks + TDK + Aleer + Bergman or Butters + Berry

Very busy off-season..

Collard is not worth a first round pick, probably worth less than Aleer. Maybe Collard plus our 3rd to West Coast, they give a pick to GWS, Aleer to us.

 

[Nutsngum]

On other subjects:

1. Collard to West coast for late first round/early second round pick
2. Steele to West coast for late first round pick
3. Aleer ($550k a year for 3 years) to saints for 2nd round pick
4. Marshall to Geelong for late first round pick

The net result is 2 late first round picks + a first from Nas trade.
Could potentially go into the draft with 4 first round draft picks + TDK + Aleer + Bergman or Butters + Berry

Very busy off-season..

I am very very skeptical of Steele having any interest in West Coast at all or if he's even considering a move genuinely. He has two years of his contract left with St Kilda which will be on very good money. West Coast are going to have to pay him a huge amount over that to get him to move to a club where his career is guaranteed to die as they wont see finals until after his retirement.

He's only going to move to a contending team and thats only if he genuinely has any interest in moving which is still completely media speculation at a time where they will grasp at any rumour they come across.

 

[ThomasR]

To me the advice here would be straight forward.

Sign with St Kilda for 8 years if you want to stay. If you choose to leave anytime during that period then we will request a trade.
Contracted players get traded all of the time. Is it more difficult? Yes. Is it uncommon? No.
Everyone wins.

sounds similar to what Pickett did at Melbourne. personally I can't wait to go through this every year

 

[bergholt]

I'd rather risk losing him then take a **** trade package.

Yeah I get that feeling but I don't think the club can lose him for nothing and Port know that, so if there's one minute left in the trade period then I think SOS has to agree to whatever's on the table.

 

[stfan]

Does everyone realise De Koning translates to The King?
So we will have King and, The King in 2026

Three Kings, don't forget about F** King Jones

 

[Lennylegs]

Trading out our current captain doesn't do anyone any good. Serious clubs don't send their incumbent captain to one of the worst clubs in AFL history for a third round pick.

Jack has been a shining light through some pretty crap times for our club. I can't believe this is a thing on here. Trading him to WCE would send such an average message to our current crop of players. We should do the right thing by him. He could've played the homesick card at any stage during his time with us. Yet he didn't.

 

[Remboy]

The first step is getting to Moorabbin and training first.

Wonder how his latest surgery went?

He was on the bike in the gym yesterday.

 

[CursingFijian]

Time to kill the draft. Too many home sick puppies

Nah, keep the draft, let's just cut off the SA arm. Who needs arms anyway?

 

[stfan]

This is the most recent update from what I can seeView attachment 2389339

At the recent 40+ Members Event, Max was walking about, but with a limp.

 

[True Believer]

I actually think signing Bergman was the smart play by Port. At the time they signed him most things were pointing to Nas staying and not signing Miles was tantamount to saying "We want Nas and you are just a bargaining chip." In that situation Miles may have pushed for a trade even without Nas going to Port, now he is not even on the table unless Nas is. They can still trade him if he agrees but now the conversation is far more favourable for Port if they ask if he would consider being part of a trade.

In short, they secured an asset.....

 

[Joffaboy]

Actually, a lot of the media is.

Just not the Tom Morris’ of this world who are licking their lips at the thoughts of Saints being smacked down again.

Excluding the Saints media guys, all of King, Cornes, Healey, Lyon, Whateley ( I think) have all expressed a desire to see us retain NAS.

Because they know their pathetic schilling for the AFL and their corrupt favouritism will be writ large if we lose a matchwinner we have developed from pick 11 while the northern clubs and Bulldogs, Collingwood etc get free FS and NGA out their arses.
The corruption and incompetence of the AFL admin destroying foundation clubs in Carlton, Saints, Essendon, and hundred year old clubs like North by not allowing them to equalise through the draft or in North's and Saints case, getting the shittiest of Fixtures and timeslots so we can't land established players has hit them squarely in the face with the two tier competition they have created.
They started the year calling Basset a whinger and now are begging that NAZ stays so they don't face the stupidity they have boosted.
F**King maggots.

 

[SG34]

my best guess right now is that Nas will nominate a move back to SA but not publicly state a club of preference, even if he has one. this will ensure a deal gets done with reasonable compensation and erases any threat of the PSD

both SA clubs have been invited to table offers, and they have both come back with comparable and life-changing money. neither have a clue which way he is leaning. all logic points towards his strong ties at Port, but his camp were also very quick to kibosh the Walker story. I think they are laying the ground for a bidding war and have been doing so for some time. outside of him staying, this is the next best result for us

I think Nas genuinely loves the club and his teammates and would want us to be looked after, even if that means subjecting his new club to an unnecessary bidding war. Maybe they both thumb their noses at this approach and he has to consider staying. If they both come to the table then privately we can try to get him to his club of choice (if he has one), but ultimately it seems he just wants to be back home, and the rest is details

This won’t change his course much if it had any weight, but I wonder how a personality like NAS feels waltzing into a new club as the highest paid player in the land? Do you think he hasn’t had chats with Brad Hill and seen first hand, the bile and hatred Brad Hill has endured at St Kilda merely because Brads manager got him ridiculous money (and let’s not forget Brad was a three time pre,iership player and a Best-and-Fairest. Hill and NAS are close, and NAS knows the pile on and hate. NAS also knows, that as time goes on, that price gets higher, those expectations go up, He knows that as his spindly frame grows, it might grow wider and heavier, and that one (or two) ACLs down the road, he could be under pressure ti live up to the hype.

So is it possible, that all the hooplah and hubris might go in our favour? It is a desperate plea to irrational hope against hope, that somehow NAS will prefer the low key vibe at St Kilda and the glories of Moorabbin and a posh Brighton home, than being with his friends and family and close to his home turf.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I am very very skeptical of Steele having any interest in West Coast at all or if he's even considering a move genuinely. He has two years of his contract left with St Kilda which will be on very good money. West Coast are going to have to pay him a huge amount over that to get him to move to a club where his career is guaranteed to die as they wont see finals until after his retirement.

He's only going to move to a contending team and thats only if he genuinely has any interest in moving which is still completely media speculation at a time where they will grasp at any rumour they come across.

Do you really think Steele will be in our best team when we are playing finals as i cant see us playing finals in the next 2 more like 3 years which makes him 33.
If he was to get a better deal at WC he should take it IMO

 

[Diehard Saint]

What makes you think he’s pushing port?

Probably barracks for them