List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[phantom13]

Also a declining contribution from 2020.

I think he was very good in 2023 but otherwise yeh.

I suspect the injuries have impacted that too. Small forward is (imo) the toughest position, having to battle that without any continuity to build on.

 

[Minga]

Really really rare to see twin rucks working unless one is a true second position type like Jackson or Lobb. If Dodson could play as a forward it might work. Marshall and TDK I’m not confident on.

Hopeful Dodson can play forward, and really no reason to believe he couldn't. He's been hitting the scoreboard at Sandy (not sure how much of that was from a Fwd position opposed to ruck getting up forward though).

He wants to play like Jackson, who is probably the best ruck/fwd in the league and is a twin ruck at Freo. Both Jackson and Dodson have strong basketball backgrounds FWIW.

Obligatory, Ryder and Marshall worked really well as twin rucks (the difference in our W/L with and without them was drastic) and neither was a standout forward, and also if the 5 man bench rule change comes in we could see the game changing also re: how twin rucks are used.

As for Marshall and TDK, it's going to have to be a wait and see, many were dubious of the Ryder pairing. At least Marshall is very solid around the ground. I'd expect the same of TDK, but don't know him as well.

AFL, like most things, goes through paradigm shifts - many things that used to be rare work well in todays game. As fans all we can do is hope that the people at saints HQ have a very solid read on what our list needs are against how to take advantage of the modern game.

 

[Klaatu]

We should be looking for a small to med forward, none of our current list knows how to get front & center we are leaving 2 or 3 goals per game, Higgo is more of a lead up run back sort of player hardly ever works in front of the contest.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I must have missed those game where King took the CBs and rucked around the ground?

King only has 34 HOs in is entire career. A ruckman playing ruck might exceed that in one game. Owens in a shorter career has had 96, but then he doe ruck in the centre and around the ground. Even Caminiti has has more at 52.

Now yes, he has occasionally contested the odd ball up in the forward line, but that is basically it.


PS: Which is not to sat that King could not ruck, but after his injury record I cannot see them rucking him except for the occasional contest in the forward line. Especially when the team is crying out for a genuine Tall Forward.

Max has never set foot on the other side of
The 50m arc

 

[phantom13]

Hopeful Dodson can play forward, and really no reason to believe he couldn't. He's been hitting the scoreboard at Sandy (not sure how much of that was from a Fwd position opposed to ruck getting up forward though).

He wants to play like Jackson, who is probably the best ruck/fwd in the league and is a twin ruck at Freo. Both Jackson and Dodson have strong basketball backgrounds FWIW.

Obligatory, Ryder and Marshall worked really well as twin rucks (the difference in our W/L with and without them was drastic) and neither was a standout forward, and also if the 5 man bench rule change comes in we could see the game changing also re: how twin rucks are used.

As for Marshall and TDK, it's going to have to be a wait and see, many were dubious of the Ryder pairing. At least Marshall is very solid around the ground. I'd expect the same of TDK, but don't know him as well.

AFL, like most things, goes through paradigm shifts - many things that used to be rare work well in todays game. As fans all we can do is hope that the people at saints HQ have a very solid read on what our list needs are against how to take advantage of the modern game.

If theres a 5 man bench, i can see it. You can probably afford to have two rucks playing 60%(ish) a piece (especially if the rotation cap remains given you would be able to use another runner at threshold anyway).

With the current 4 man bench and way that footy is played to me 1 true ruck and then 1 forward/ruck (not ruck forward and i get that its nitpicking but that player should be a natural forward who can ruck for 5 minutes a quarter) is the only viable option.

Its what nearly every team is running (except freo which even then is probably more that way because Darcy cant play 70% gametime).

That model has also always been 1 established first choice, 1 experienced backup, 1 developing ruck and if it all goes to shit, get yourself some state league guy mid year.

There really isnt scope for more rucks (maybe 1 more) on your list and especially in your 23.

To me TDK and Roma cant work, theyre both first choice rucks. TDK and Keeler (with some development and Keeler being a second or even third forward) would be ideal. Dodson might substitute Keeler pending whether hes up to it or not.

 

[phantom13]

We should be looking for a small to med forward, none of our current list knows how to get front & center we are leaving 2 or 3 goals per game, Higgo is more of a lead up run back sort of player hardly ever works in front of the contest.

Hall does it pretty well, Henry also should be doing it if not injured.

 

[stavro#4]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

 

[phantom13]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Id much rather keep him personally but thats a decent return.

 

[billings2paddy]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Ill pack his bags

 

[stavro#4]

Id much rather keep him personally but thats a decent return.

Ill pack his bags

It’s the type of gamble that if it backfires you lose a big part of the culture you are building at the club but if it comes off you’re looking at a significant upgrade.

 

[saintbill]

I was hoping King would rotate through the ruck next season as that is when he seems to play best. It’s not like staying out of the ruck has prevented injuries, so we may as well have the better version of King, which I reckon is rotating through the ruck.

Would be a fair more useful player if he could ruck for 20 minutes a game, but unfortunately he just lacks the necessary physicality to have any sort of impact.

Here is a wild stat for you, between Max and his brother Ben they have collectively laid 130 tackles their entire career combined. Miles off even averaging 1 tackle a game.

I know it's not there main job, but it does show a lack of desperation and physicality if you ask me.

King would be monstered in the ruck, would be pushed aside by stronger men.

The best hope for King is if he develops a better tank and can play centre half forward role. He is unreal when he gets a run at it. As soon as he has to wrestle he is poor.

For some reason he seems to want to engage in the one on one wrestling far too much.

Here is where I will defend King a little bit. My brother is mates with somebody who works at the club, and I was told King was instructed under Ratten to stay at home and engage the defender.

I suspect King got some really poor coaching in the early years and has developed some bad habits.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Ill pack his bags

We could get a midfielder and one of the best KPF. Spicy, though not sure Bombers would actually do it.

 

[magd2992]

Ill pack his bags

And I’ll carry them for ya

 

[saintbill]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

I would do that deal. Use it for mini Pou.

 

[saintbill]

We could get a midfielder and one of the best KPF. Spicy, though not sure Bombers would actually do it.

Can't see it happening either.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Id much rather keep him personally but thats a decent return.

Yes to both points.

However, it does seem a bit weird that in the guise of doing everything possible to keep Nas happily living in our foreign state, we are contemplating bringing in Tex Wanganeen while simultaneously risking NWM’s bestest mate walking to another club.

Surely our preference is to re-sign Marcus. If not, make it make sense.

 

[buck12]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Am I crazy for saying I would still rather keep Windy then do this. If it was last years draft I would do it in a heart beat but with the weaker group this year I'll take Windy.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Take that and run personally

 

[stavro#4]

Am I crazy for saying I would still rather keep Windy then do this. If it was last years draft I would do it in a heart beat but with the weaker group this year I'll take Windy.

Can I just point out that when people knock the quality of a draft, that Max Hall + Cal Wilkie went undrafted across multiple drafts.

They are what clubs make of it. If your recruiter thinks they can land some good talent you back them the **** in.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes to both points.

However, it does seem a bit weird that in the guise of doing everything possible to keep Nas happily living in our foreign state, we are contemplating bringing in Tex Wanganeen while simultaneously risking NWM’s bestest mate walking to another club.

Surely our preference is to re-sign Marcus. If not, make it make sense.

What if we are trying but he doesn’t want to because of the money?

Like, negotiations go both ways.

If you buy a house or car you’ll only spend what you think it’s worth and that might be less than what I do. Irrespective of if buying it helps you with another goal, you won’t be totally wreckless in your decision making.

 

[Remboy]

Take that and run personally

Yeah, as much as I like Windy, if he’s not budging on wanting $800k+ and Essendon are offering their first, I think it makes it harder to keep him than let him go.

 

[Saintbloke]

It appears that with Nas, nobody knows what's going on- Nas, his manager, the Saints, his teammates, other clubs, his family, the media, fans..nobody knows.

 

[Mystifly]

Just dipped into the Wanganeen-Milera thread on the PA board, and I almost laughed my socks off from a suggested trade, which was then argued to be PA paying overs.

Georgiades for pick 1, Reid for Saints 1st round pick + future first round pick, then Nas for pick 1.

WCE gain Georgiades + 2 first round picks, Port gain Wanganeen-Milera, Saints gain Pick 1 and Reid.

"PA are being ripped off here." Nas > Georgiades would be everyone other than PA fans' opinion? WCE lose out here in my opinion, and would probably need a Collard sweetener.

 

[St Neil]

Interestingly, a few Essendon posters saying they would part with the Melbourne FRP for Windy.

They are saying that pick would be around p10 in the live draft with everything factored in.

Essendon are completely rebuilding. They need to get stuck into the draft.

Trading a 1st RDP (linked to Melbourne) for Windhager is a massive price to pay.

 

[buck12]

Can I just point out that when people knock the quality of a draft, that Max Hall + Cal Wilkie went undrafted across multiple drafts.

They are what clubs make of it. If your recruiter thinks they can land some good talent you back them the **** in.

Fair, I am just big on Windy being a 200+ game player for the club. His versatility, leadership and improvement tells me has everything to be good for a long time. You might get someone better with the pick or just as good or you might get someone who doesn't make it. We probably wouldn't find out for another 3 years.