List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[bergholt]

I don't dispute that, but he wasn't an excellent set shot at goal this season, but merely a good one.

Maybe not even that actually. Here's his accuracy across the top 20 tall forwards.

68%+: King (69 goals)
66%+: Treacy (42), Larkey (41)
64%+: Chol (39), Hogan (43), Neale (41)
62%+: Fogarty (40), Darcy (48)
60%+: Thilthorpe (55), Cadman (44), Cameron (83), Morris (48), Naughton (60)
58%+:
56%+:
54%+: Gunston (62), Walker (37), Melksham (33), Sharman (34)
52%+: Voss (34)
50%+: Georgiades (58), Mihocek (36)

That said, kicking at the tall forward average of about 60% would have only got him a handful more goals.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I watch games.

TBH I'm hoping Steele gets traded (don't think he will). He showed some improvement late but having him and Macrae in there isn't the way forward imo.

Grateful to Jack but it's a new day.

I absolutely don't see keeping him as captain as a good move though.

I agree with Joffaboy, we all watch the games, that alone isn't enough to qualify your opinion.

And I’m not saying you’re wrong, but how do you have so much confidence in something you have so little insight into?

Do you know what happens Monday to Friday, how standards are set, how he fronts the group after losses, how the younger blokes respond etc. Captaincy is also consistency, accountability, and trust.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So funny that the Bulldogs can just offer a new contract to a contracted player and the rules allow for this.

Should be like in the NBA where a deal can only be re-negotiated at certain points of the contract, and the contract is traded with the player. Ie they don't get a new one when they show up at a new club (unless via free agency)

They may not play by the same rules as us

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Too right. They have made list decisions with these players very much a part of their plans.

Fair enough to make teams pay a fair price, but pulling the rug from under clubs isn't right.

What list decisions have Port made to bring in an 18yo through the draft?

Sign Butters
Sign Rozee
Sign Bergman
Sign JHF

What crazy delisting did they make that they wouldnt normally make?

New draftees automatically get a 2 or 3 year contract

They are just pissed they are potentially missing out on a highly rated Father-Son / NGA player .... thats it ...... nothing more to it

 

[SG34]

Would it be fair to say JSOS is our belated replacement for Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

? as good?

Nevermind the Battle may be AA now, but that’s Cornes. (That’s what I know..lol)

Jack Silvagni and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison

Jack Silvagni and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[gringo2011]

Only one player on our list, looks irreplaceable if we land all these targets.

Max.

Everyone has some form Of cover.

There is staying competitive and competing though. We probably need to have a considerable turn around in injury luck to go deep in finals.

 

[sauce_head]

Imagine the uproar if a club said, you got dropped to the VFL this year and your form has been average at best. We're renegotiating your contract, you'll earn $250k less next year.

What are you talking about? I’m not saying it can be done unilaterally!!! I’m saying he could ask the question. And if he has, which I am not suggesting, it is not whinging.

Any change needs to be by agreement, of course. But it never hurts to ask.

 

[sauce_head]

Maybe not even that actually. Here's his accuracy across the top 20 tall forwards.

68%+: King (69 goals)
66%+: Treacy (42), Larkey (41)
64%+: Chol (39), Hogan (43), Neale (41)
62%+: Fogarty (40), Darcy (48)
60%+: Thilthorpe (55), Cadman (44), Cameron (83), Morris (48), Naughton (60)
58%+:
56%+:
54%+: Gunston (62), Walker (37), Melksham (33), Sharman (34)
52%+: Voss (34)
50%+: Georgiades (58), Mihocek (36)

That said, kicking at the tall forward average of about 60% would have only got him a handful more goals.

You can pick if Sharman’s kick will go for a goal or a point almost instantly. If it stays low, it’s a goal.

 

[gringo2011]

A positive Gringo!?!?!?
We really must be doing something new!

Seriously though when some of our more pessimistic posters are showing some positivity - albeit cautiously - things are looking up.

Really looking forward to the next few weeks and see what damage we cause next year.

I’ve always swung hard. As soon as anything looks positive I’m usually the happiest poster on here. If things go south I’m ready to lynch every administrator at the club.

 

[Armoooo]

What list decisions have Port made to bring in an 18yo through the draft?

Sign Butters
Sign Rozee
Sign Bergman
Sign JHF

What crazy delisting did they make that they wouldnt normally make?

New draftees automatically get a 2 or 3 year contract

They are just pissed they are potentially missing out on a highly rated Father-Son / NGA player .... thats it ...... nothing more to it

i don't know, i dont follow them closely. But if you thought you were getting a top 5 prospect ruck next year, you might pass on one this year even if they were next available at your pick.

This shouldn't be a controversial take. The AFL shouldn't be making knee-jerk, reactionary changes to the mechanisms through which clubs make long term list management decisions.

Even outside of footy I stand by this. Some people would call me a looney lefties because of some of my political opinions, such as my the desire to see CGT discounts reduced, negative gearing scrapped. But even if i could personally make those changes I would want to see them phased out over time as it's not fair to change the rules on people in the middle of a game.

 

[marcus1232]

There is nothing the Bulldogs have that they are prepared to part with that would satisfy us in a trade for Wilkie

 

[Armoooo]

Maybe not even that actually. Here's his accuracy across the top 20 tall forwards.

68%+: King (69 goals)
66%+: Treacy (42), Larkey (41)
64%+: Chol (39), Hogan (43), Neale (41)
62%+: Fogarty (40), Darcy (48)
60%+: Thilthorpe (55), Cadman (44), Cameron (83), Morris (48), Naughton (60)
58%+:
56%+:
54%+: Gunston (62), Walker (37), Melksham (33), Sharman (34)
52%+: Voss (34)
50%+: Georgiades (58), Mihocek (36)

That said, kicking at the tall forward average of about 60% would have only got him a handful more goals.

Without looking at any additional data, just going by the names, memory and the eye test. I feel like what those stats show is that players who get their shots closer to goal are more likely to score.

When I think of Sharman kicking for goal, I think of him 40+m out, when I think of almost all of those above him, except Fogarty, I think of them shooting from about 25m out.

Again, no stats whatsoever, I could be completely wrong.

 

[PlayerNumber9]

I think it was phased in (top 20 and then top 40) and then they just scrapped it. Went something like

2020 - Dogs match JUH at pick 1
2021 - no NGA matching in top 20 (Windhager and Owens got through)
2022 - no NGA matching in top 40 (missed Mackenzie)
2023 - no change
2024 - the rule gets scrapped (for... reasons?). clubs can match NGA picks anywhere again
2025 - no change, but new points index makes it harder to match

the inconsistency and flip flopping is something to behold

It got changed after 2023 because the weagles cracked it when their NGA prospect (Lancey boy) got picked by another club at pick 21 (IIRC). The AFL thinks it's fine for St Kilda and even Melbourne to get shafted, but not the weagles.

 

[Sully111]

Lol so you think watching a couple of games gives you more insight into a football club than the actual.playersxwho work there with each other, at training, in the gym, at player meetings, at one on one reviewing, line reviewing, player mentoring etc?
He is not a good captain because of your confirmation bias, not from a source a information or knowledge.

Right

So we can't form an opinion on if someone is the right person to captain the club. Simply can not be done unless we're at player meetings etc.

Can we have an opinion about anything? Our do we need to be on the list.

I don't think Steele is the right person to take us forward. Reckon plenty agree.

Feel free to get stuck on it though and make decisions about what my motivation is.

Or... we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Moose a three year deal at Melbourne, what’s he worth in a trade?

 

[Joffaboy]

Moose a three year deal at Melbourne, what’s he worth in a trade?

2 firsts

 

[Hubnester]

Would it be fair to say JSOS is our belated replacement for Josh Battle? as good?

Nevermind the Battle may be AA now, but that’s Cornes. (That’s what I know..lol)

Jack Silvagni and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison

Jack Silvagni and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Silvagni is undoubtedly the more talented and versatile of the two, but his durability is the major question mark. If he miraculously starts playing 20+ games a season at the standard he played at this year, we will be laughing.

 

[Joffaboy]

Some salty Bulldog supporters on the Wilkie D&T thread

 

[Joffaboy]

Right

So we can't form an opinion on if someone is the right person to captain the club. Simply can not be done unless we're at player meetings etc.

Can we have an opinion about anything? Our do we need to be on the list.

I don't think Steele is the right person to take us forward. Reckon plenty agree.

Feel free to get stuck on it though and make decisions about what my motivation is.

Or... we can just agree to disagree.

No you can't, without any facts. You can have an opinion, but don't sook when it is challenged when you present it as a fact.
Carry on.

 

[stavro#4]

Silvagni is undoubtedly the more talented and versatile of the two, but his durability is the major question mark. If he miraculously starts playing 20+ games a season at the standard he played at this year, we will be laughing.

You really think he is more talented?

 

[TheJackal]

Moose a three year deal at Melbourne, what’s he worth in a trade?

Moose, MacKenzie, Petracca.

We can give Hawthorn the pick 20 that we'll get from Carlton for downgrading 7 to 9.

 

[stfan]

8.8 Over Age Father/Sons

If an eligible Father/Son Player is not included on a Club’s Primary List or Rookie List after attaining draft eligibility age, a Club may retain that Player as an eligible Father/Son Player in the Football Year immediately following the year they attain draft eligibility age, provided the Club complies with Rule 8.4 and the Player has previously nominated for the National Draft but has not been selected in any Draft.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2025/02/13/b37f8086-9a25-44de-9c9d-ba7df30004ba/AFL-Rules-effective-14-February-2025-Final-.pdf

Thank you for that. Bugga!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nutsngum]

Moose a three year deal at Melbourne, what’s he worth in a trade?

Late 2nd round/early 3rd round is probably where it'll fall for a 23yo promising ruck.

 

[Sully111]

No you can't, without any facts. You can have an opinion, but don't sook when it is challenged when you present it as a fact.
Carry on.

Disagreeing with you isn't sooking.

It's just disagreeing with you.

Said I don't think he should be captain next year. That's clearly stating an opinion.

Here's a thought Joffa... you could allow people to have opinions. Disagree with them, sure, but not accuse of sooking... not telling them it's confirmation bias and other such drivel.

You think Steele should be captain? Cool. I don't. See how easy that is?

 

[Addy23]

What list decisions have Port made to bring in an 18yo through the draft?

Sign Butters
Sign Rozee
Sign Bergman
Sign JHF

What crazy delisting did they make that they wouldnt normally make?

New draftees automatically get a 2 or 3 year contract

They are just pissed they are potentially missing out on a highly rated Father-Son / NGA player .... thats it ...... nothing more to it

As recently as last year, they agreed to trade Houston to get back into last year's draft.

They gave up a first rounder to get 2 2nd rounders from Freo to get Soldo and Ratugolea (1 may have worked and the other not but that's besides the point)

Gave up a first round pick in this year's draft for Luko

Gave up a few first rounders to trade for JHF

Butters, Rozee and Bergman were over 5 years ago so not really something that is worth arguing about in this discussion. But they indeed did trade up to pick 5 to get Rozee.

You cannot say that they would've done all these trades even if the rules were otherwise as proposed. The investment has already been made from a NGA and F/S both financially and in terms of development, not just by Port but by Qld, NSW clubs, Port, Kangas, Freo, Blues, Bombers have prospects lined up in the next 2-3 years which is what the period of outlook is for list managers. The AFL can't just turn around now and say it's off-limits. If they were going to do that they might as well start it from this draft.