List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[phantom13]

Carlton’s mids are just a better version of ours over the last few years. Cripps, Hewett, Walsh can all get the ball but nothing comes from their disposals. Same as Crouch/Macrae, Steele, Windhager. Petracca, Oliver and Viney are long bomb it in types.

Obviously Nas is good but I think Garcia, Phillipou, Wilson, Hall etc are all good with ball in hand so we’re lucky there.

I rate Hewett as a two way mid, hes argurably the only one of their players who genuinely wants to defend.

Walsh should be good, can run and carry and is a decent kick but i think youre probably right. I think them bringing in so many players has meant they all think theyre the number 1 guy, probably something we need to be a little conscious of.

 

[Mat Mann]

He seems to spend ALOT of time and energy shitting on the saints, it all smacks of sour grapes.

spends alot of time shitting on the AFL as well.

I don't agree with all of his thoughts, but he has some stuff that's pretty bang on

 

[phantom13]

i kind of want to see Wilkie nominate the dogs just to see them ****ing loose their shit trying to get that trade done

SOS can win the hearts and minds of every saints fan by just being a beligerent dickhead to them for 9 straight days.

Lean into the rep SOS, make us proud.

 

[phantom13]

spends alot of time shitting on the AFL as well.

I don't agree with all of his thoughts, but he has some stuff that's pretty bang on

So does Kane Cornes, if your job is throwing shit all day eventually some of its gonna stick.

 

[Remboy]

If the rumours about Wilkie being disillusioned with our club culture are true, why would he choose to go to the Bulldogs?

Club culture was a key reason why Dunkley left, and there’s enough smoke to suggest it also played a part in Bailey Smith’s decision to leave.

If he was disillusioned why would he ring Ross and say that he loved the club and wasn’t going anywhere?

 

[gringo2011]

Carlton’s mids are just a better version of ours over the last few years. Cripps, Hewett, Walsh can all get the ball but nothing comes from their disposals. Same as Crouch/Macrae, Steele, Windhager. Petracca, Oliver and Viney are long bomb it in types.

Obviously Nas is good but I think Garcia, Phillipou, Wilson, Hall etc are all good with ball in hand so we’re lucky there.

Yeah they lack dynamic outside run and rely on kick mark to cover for a lack of run and carry. They are perfectly set up for the 1990s footy that Vossy played.

 

[gringo2011]

So does Kane Cornes, if your job is throwing shit all day eventually some of its gonna stick.

GT doesn't hold back. He's a bit of a curmudgeon and a professional negativity storm but he also says stuff that a lot of others hold back. He's wrong more than he's right but he adds to the conversation.

Kornes runs a thousand tiny paper cuts then pulls out his bucket of lemon juice as a POD in the media. He adds a entertaining schadenfreude experience to the media landscape. He's just quite unenjoyable when he has your club in his sights.

 

[phantom13]

If he was disillusioned why would he ring Ross and say that he loved the club and wasn’t going anywhere?

To be fair i think that call was PRE Aleer (and possibly JSOS).

I wouldnt begrudge him wanting to be paid more than both of them but i doubt the "disillusionment" goes any further than wanting a few extra bucks.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Won't be at all surprised to see old mate Kenny H at the Blues next year. To help Vossy of course, until they sack Vossy and make Kenny coach!

 

[MordySaint]

There isn't a bridge left in the AFL that Grant Thomas didn't burn and there isn't a job that he hasn't been sacked from. Who gaf what GT has to say

Disagree, I reckon GT borders on genius. His tenure at the Saints was one which set us up for the next 5 years. Most things I hear from him I agree with, compared to Butterrs who I don't agree with anything he says.

Also his handling of a FinTech startup shows that he's also a very smart bloke.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Yeah, Luke Hodge was saying that the game has moved away from inside bulls over the last few years. Clubs holding too many like Dees, Blues etc are struggling to move the ball the same way clubs with more modern set ups do.

Lyon was ahead of the game in a lot of ways and when he came back this time he saw the trend starting and made a move towards it. He kept saying that we were built for run. 10 years of drafting only HBFs finally got us a reward.

Richards is built for run

 

[phantom13]

Some of you jokers in that Wilkie thread are absolute masochists.

Id rather take a sharp edge of some reflex A4 to my aggots then sprinkle some himalayan pink sea salt on it than engage with those campaigners.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I reckon there are going to be a lot of disappointed Bulldogs supporters at the end of the trade period, as there is no way the club let Wilkie go anywhere. I very much doubt that Wilkie will even seriously consider the offer regardless of the $$$ involved.

 

[thekizzler]

Huh? It's not negative, it's just putting up a list of mids and saying it's thin. How do I add some delusion glitter to make you happy?

If Macrae was injured round one Garcia and Windhager could be our prime drivers. Realistically Dow and Clark play a lot of on ball in that situation. That's super thin.

Delusion glitter?

You don't need to do anything else to make me happy - the way you look at things makes me happy.

You could win the lottery and your outlook would be you have too much money.

I'm just pointing out, as a matter of fact, that our SUPER THIN midfield was above average last season compared to other midfields at stoppages - a fact you did not mention or would not mention.

Considering how young several members of our engine room are, and also that Nas and Hall started to play there only in the last 5-6 games, the outlook is pretty positive.

And it's not really thin at all. Assuming if Steele goes we get one of McKenzie/Flanders, these are our midfield options.

• Nas
• Macrae
• One of Steele/McKenzie/Flanders
• Windhager
• Garcia
• Hall
• Clark
• Boxshall
• Paddy Dow
• Travaglia
• EDIT: Forgot both Phillipou and Wilson haha

I would roughly have our current mids in this order of importance - obviously a subjective order.

In my list, Hunter Clark and Hugh Boxshall are being squeezed out for different roles or out of the team. That's pretty solid depth in anyone's book.

And for Paddy Dow to play a lot on ball in ANY situation, he has to work himself up that list a fair way with his performances or we need quite a few injuries.

Sure, we want a better midfield but the club is trying to do that by recruiting better midfielders and develop the likes of Windy, Garcia, Hall, Boxshall, Travaglia into top liners.

So yeah, you definitely Gringo'd our midfield situation

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Some of you jokers in that Wilkie thread are absolute masochists.

Id rather take a sharp edge of some reflex A4 to my aggots then sprinkle some himalayan pink sea salt on it than engage with those campaigners.

You forgot the lemon juice

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Some of you jokers in that Wilkie thread are absolute masochists.

Id rather take a sharp edge of some reflex A4 to my aggots then sprinkle some himalayan pink sea salt on it than engage with those campaigners.

Yes Chef

 

[phantom13]

Delusion glitter?

You don't need to do anything else to make me happy - the way you look at things makes me happy.

You could win the lottery and your outlook would be you have too much money.

I'm just pointing out, as a matter of fact, that our SUPER THIN midfield was above average last season compared to other midfields at stoppages - a fact you did not mention or would not mention.

Considering how young several members of our engine room are, and also that Nas and Hall started to play there only in the last 5-6 games, the outlook is pretty positive.

And it's not really thin at all. Assuming if Steele goes we get one of McKenzie/Flanders, these are our midfield options.

• Nas
• Macrae
• One of Steele/McKenzie/Flanders
• Windhager
• Garcia
• Hall
• Clark
• Boxshall
• Paddy Dow
• Travaglia

I would roughly have our current mids in this order of importance - obviously a subjective order.

In my list, Hunter Clark and Hugh Boxshall are being squeezed out for different roles or out of the team. That's pretty solid depth in anyone's book.

And for Paddy Dow to play a lot on ball in ANY situation, he has to work himself up that list a fair way with his performances or we need quite a few injuries.

Sure, we want a better midfield but the club is trying to do that by recruiting better midfielders and develop the likes of Windy, Garcia, Hall, Boxshall, Travaglia into top liners.

So yeah, you definitely Gringo'd our midfield situation

At the risk of Gringoing myself i think that list is lacking much production and history.

Nas, Macrae, Steele are all proven producers of A-B grade work (noting Steele seems to be declining and McKenzie and Flanders arent proven).

Windy probably sits there too.

The rest are all good based on potential and glimpses, they havent produced for a long time, now obviously that means they have upside too but it does mean they might fall apart. Wilson looked a world beater then looked like shit for nearly every game this year (until he looked ****ing A grade again).

So if youre talking about proven depth, were definitely lacking (noting im not concerned about it at all)

 

[thekizzler]

Mate, there were plenty of posters on here suggesting Windhager would not be a huge loss, happy to point out his deficiencies whilst ignoring his strengths.

Feel free to go back and have a read when the rumours came out that he might be looking at a move.

You are the one claiming people were 'happy', my man, not me and you might be able to find one or two 'happy' but that's not an accurate reflection and there is 0% chance you will find many.

I saw plenty of posters that were willing to let him go if there was a huge gap in what the club valued him and what he wanted. Including myself. That doesn't mean they were happy for him to go. I would have been extremely disappointed if he left. But if he had left for big money, it wouldn't have been the end of the world, like if Nas or Wilkie left.

That was literally the most common argument other than 'he must stay or the club will implode'. Claiming otherwise is a lack of comprehension.

 

[phantom13]

You are the one claiming people were 'happy', my man, not me and you might be able to find one or two 'happy' but that's not an accurate reflection and there is 0% chance you will find many.

I saw plenty of posters that were willing to let him go if there was a huge gap in what the club valued him and what he wanted. Including myself. That doesn't mean they were happy for him to go. I would have been extremely disappointed if he left. But if he had left for big money, it wouldn't have been the end of the world, like if Nas or Wilkie left.

That was literally the most common argument other than 'he must stay or the club will implode'. Claiming otherwise is a lack of comprehension.

If you reckon one side was conflated then the bolded is doing the exact same thing the other way.

In reality there werent many who wanted him to just **** off as there werent many who claimed the club would fold if he left.

There were plenty saying he wasnt worth the money and wed be better off without him if he wanted x dollars (pick your mark there) as there were plenty saying it would be a terrible outcome for the club and he was a cultural lynchpin.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I'm choosing to ignore the Wilkie talk.

But what about this idea, Leek Aleer to the ruck? OK, ok, this is a break glass option. But if TDK, Dodson AND Keeler/Caminiti all go down - the different ruck rules would probably mean an undersized athletic freak like Leek would be able to pinch hit in there.

For that reason, losing Marshall won't be the end of the world

Nah
Tauru
Seen him use his leap more times already
In what?
8 games

 

[thekizzler]

At the risk of Gringoing myself i think that list is lacking much production and history.

Nas, Macrae, Steele are all proven producers of A-B grade work (noting Steele seems to be declining and McKenzie and Flanders arent proven).

Windy probably sits there too.

The rest are all good based on potential and glimpses, they havent produced for a long time, now obviously that means they have upside too but it does mean they might fall apart. Wilson looked a world beater then looked like shit for nearly every game this year (until he looked ****ing A grade again).

So if youre talking about proven depth, were definitely lacking (noting im not concerned about it at all)

100% it's nowhere near a premiership-winning midfield.

I didn't even mention Wilson as possible midfield option too.

Everything you just wrote is bang on.

But especially those bolded words - which is pretty much the entire point in my previous post summed up.

 

[phantom13]

100% it's nowhere near a premiership-winning midfield.

I didn't even mention Wilson as possible midfield option too.

Everything you just wrote is bang on.

But especially those bolded words - which is pretty much the entire point in my previous post summed up.

I dont reckon its far off TBH, i think the personel is all there we just need them to continue to develop and define their roles.

Its all really well balanced with good defensive pressure players and spread, ball winners and run and carry. Weve even got an out and out boneafide Star in NAS (and potentially another with Pou).

 

[thekizzler]

If you reckon one side was conflated then the bolded is doing the exact same thing the other way.

In reality there werent many who wanted him to just **** off as there werent many who claimed the club would fold if he left.

There were plenty saying he wasnt worth the money and wed be better off without him if he wanted x dollars (pick your mark there) as there were plenty saying it would be a terrible outcome for the club and he was a cultural lynchpin.

Fair. What I've bolded.

I just don't think that anyone was happy to see him go. You would have to be crazy to be pleased if Windhager left the club. That was my point to the OP.

 

[thekizzler]

I dont reckon its far off TBH, i think the personel is all there we just need them to continue to develop and define their roles.

Its all really well balanced with good defensive pressure players and spread, ball winners and run and carry. Weve even got an out and out boneafide Star in NAS (and potentially another with Pou).

My list was actually trash haha.

It's missing Wilson AND Phillipou.

But emphasizes the point even more.

 

[Joffaboy]

You make the most relevant point of all.

We have a blue chip they desperately need. They can’t win a Flag without a player like Wilkie because he can marshall and organise their defence which is a chronic weakness that will continue to hold them back.

But Wilkie is contracted. He is St Kilda’s player. Highly rated. Next Captain. Former AA.

So to extricate him Bulldogs need to convince him to leave AND to convince St Kilda to trade him.

It’s not rocket science. It is what it is. So, get it done. Be a serious football club.

But it will be a difficult trade for the Bulldogs to make. It won’t be a fair trade because they are the distressed buyer. So they have to pay massive overs to convince St Kilda to agree to a trade.

Seems reasonable. Business is business. Why should St Kilda’s agree to do anything that is not in its own best interest?

To do this the Bulldogs trade assets they can cover. That’s how their list will be improved. Giving in order to get.

You have mentioned Richards and Freijah. That sounds about right to me considering they are the desperate buyer initiating the transaction. But that is a matter that can be debated. Big overs, certainly, but they can easily cover those players.

So they should just it done. Get serious about it. It’s their proposed trade and not ours.

We don’t have to do anything. In fact, we are happy doing nothing.

Put up or shut up Bulldogs.

The trade would make Lachie Weller for pick 2 to Freo, look like Freo was fleeced