List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Reckon that source might be Ben Williams rather than anyone from the club.

It would’ve been port Adelaide

 

[The Jack]

Monday September 29 (the Monday after the Grand Final)

Saints Membership | 2025 Trevor Barker Awards

Memberships On Sale Now!

saintsmembership.com.au

Interesting the b&f is after the finals. It was obvious mid May we weren’t participating. Long wait from our last game.

 

[gringo2011]

Been offline - just heard the news. Clearly the higher clanger rate must have tipped the AA vote in favour of Battle.

Callum Wilkie and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison

Callum Wilkie and Josh Battle AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Wilkie probably the most unlucky not to get an AA but he's looked less bullet proof this year in a much less solid defence. He's covering all of our holes instead of being the champion back that reads the drop of the ball before it's hit a foot. I can see why they didn't give him a spot but Battle probably just as lucky with a big club loading adding a bit to his chances.

 

[gringo2011]

So….all those people thinking we did the dirty on Ratts to get Ross - are you still thinking the same way?
Because the Blues board keeping Voss has just screwed them spectacularly!

I hate getting smug because footy has a way of making you look foolish for getting cocky. Lyon has been huge for so many reasons. We had a dysfunctional and ignored footy department that he has redesigned and rebuilt. He is an autocrat that expects things done his way. Carlton is a pool of out of control egos all wanting the reins, it probably wasn't the right fit.

We also need to see what Ross can do with the list he's built and the people he wants in place. No excuses any more. We are in go mode from 2026. He needs to not stall the Ferrari from here.

 

[Joffaboy]

It would’ve been port Adelaide

It would have been Will Faulkner, he seems across the whole thing.

 

[beside the seaside]

I think it costs a first round pick no matter what. They need draft capital and with later picks adjusted back they need points from better pick more than likely. If Marshall gets us a FRDP perhaps it's that. It gets them enough to take their academy kids without eating into next year.

If we gave 7 maybe we get all their junk time picks to use on other trades.

Personally I'm hoping we don't trade Marshall. Unless we bring in another tall forward. I don't trust Hammer as a forward, Keeler still very raw. Matching up on Marshall and King could give teams nightmares.

 

[thekizzler]

Personally I'm hoping we don't trade Marshall. Unless we bring in another tall forward. I don't trust Hammer as a forward, Keeler still very raw. Matching up on Marshall and King could give teams nightmares.

What I would like to see - if Marshall stays, which I want as well - is him to slim down just a little to improve agility and then really have a crack at being that 30% ruck, 70% forward.

What's clear to me is that he is a better forward than TDK - let's tailor him in that fashion.

I think the only thing stopping Marshall from kicking 30-40 goals would be his lack of agility. While it's not poor, improving it will really make him a dangerous weapon.

 

[True Believer]

Lyon is clearly looking at having a serious crack at deep finals/ premiership next season

I'm not saying that you specifically are saying the following, but for me, comments like this beg the question - what did people think Lyon was up to? Did they honestly believe he was wanting to cash a paycheque and simply hang around for 4 years or more doing essentially nothing? He is a highly competitive person and if he wanted an easy workday and reasonable paycheck he could have easily stayed in the media.

It blows my mind that people buy into and believe some of the various narratives, things like Lyon only wanting to be ultra-defensive, being in cahoots with the President and wanting to avoid scrutiny and hang onto the coaches job for the bucks despite being no good for the modern era etc

SOS cops the same thing - not interested in success at the Saints, there because he's RTB's mate, only wants revenge on Carlton because of a falling out, not interested in success at the Saints, has free reign to use our list to exact revenge on Carlton with no oversight or thought for our lists performance......

Do people actually believe this kind of bullshit?

RTB and our President clearly stated there was a plan and there was a timeframe....we have done exactly what was said, in that effectively we have gone to the draft for 4 years or so, built a talented young core and we are now shopping around for the missing pieces of the list via trades/free agency which is underpinned by 4 years of salary cap strategy/savings.....

 

[BrutThough]

And tony74

Maybe Terry is Tony?

 

[Diehard Saint]

I hate getting smug because footy has a way of making you look foolish for getting cocky. Lyon has been huge for so many reasons. We had a dysfunctional and ignored footy department that he has redesigned and rebuilt. He is an autocrat that expects things done his way. Carlton is a pool of out of control egos all wanting the reins, it probably wasn't the right fit.

We also need to see what Ross can do with the list he's built and the people he wants in place. No excuses any more. We are in go mode from 2026. He needs to not stall the Ferrari from here.

1000%
I’m too scarredto be smug.
But I believe it was always the right decision - as horrible as it looked at the time.
There are absolutely no guarantees in life, or sport, all you can do is make what you think the best decision is at the time.

As member of a club that has been laughed at, scorned and vilified (often for good reason) I’m seeing a club now that is starting a climb out of mediocrity.

I do say starting - but it has to begin somewhere. Call me naive, but I have a lot more faith in those running the club now than previously. But we all know Luck has a part - just look at our previous grand finals.

I just think that maybe the rest of the competition is starting to take us a little more seriously now - and when your peers sit up and notice, then there has to be something in it.

Nevertheless, a long way to go, but these building blocks are encouraging. It’s what you’ve always wanted - get the foundations right first and then build. And I think that’s what’s happening, Gringo.

 

[True Believer]

I hate getting smug because footy has a way of making you look foolish for getting cocky. Lyon has been huge for so many reasons. We had a dysfunctional and ignored footy department that he has redesigned and rebuilt. He is an autocrat that expects things done his way. Carlton is a pool of out of control egos all wanting the reins, it probably wasn't the right fit.

We also need to see what Ross can do with the list he's built and the people he wants in place. No excuses any more. We are in go mode from 2026. He needs to not stall the Ferrari from here.

The only problem with that is that half a dozen injuries/missed pre-seasons to the wrong players and the Ferrari has no engine........

 

[Joffaboy]

I hate getting smug because footy has a way of making you look foolish for getting cocky. Lyon has been huge for so many reasons. We had a dysfunctional and ignored footy department that he has redesigned and rebuilt. He is an autocrat that expects things done his way. Carlton is a pool of out of control egos all wanting the reins, it probably wasn't the right fit.

We also need to see what Ross can do with the list he's built and the people he wants in place. No excuses any more. We are in go mode from 2026. He needs to not stall the Ferrari from here.

Totally correct. I have said previously that I give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but two things have to change going forward.
1. The players talk about getting a winning culture. Well that includes winning when the pressure is on. No point going 2 -10 then winning most games in the back end of the season when the season is shot. Might give the supporters a bit of a fuzzy feeling but that's it. We have done this twice in a row.
2. Even if we get a couple of the mooted players through the door, this is now Lyon's list. A fit King, Howard, Pou, and Henry, all virtually unseen this year and natural development of a dozen kids means he has to deliver.
He had been critisised for a dour defensive game. Well he has had three years to put his defensive game in place. It leaked this year because of the loss of Battle and key injuries. With Howard back, and maybe both Aleer and JSOS coming back, with Tauru getting games, the backline looks stronger. Time for us to get our attacking game inside 50 corrected. A fit King and Ryan, plus options like TDK, and Hammer forward should do that.
No Mulligan next season. Time to deliver.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The most commonly used argument for that he was leaving was just assuming he would because he hadn't signed yet.

We can probably put that one to bed permanently now - especially if Windy signs after the season. Times are changing.

I also think, as you pointed out, that the situation of many players who haven't signed late in the season is a lot different to Nas.

De Koning and Allen are glaring examples but if a player has already decided to leave a club by August/September, you generally just know by how they are playing, how they are being used, how their team-mates treat them and by what their coaches are saying.

Nas wasn't really setting off alarm bells in any of these areas. And I go back to this quote after the Melbourne Alice Springs game.

Things can change but it would have been a MASSIVE backflip to say this and change your mind. It can happen but it has always felt - to me- that Nas has plenty of integrity.

Which to me means that unless we really go belly up in the next 2 years, he’ll sign for longer.

 

[stavro#4]

True. I'm not at all surprised by that to be honest.

I wonder where the contract figure was at when he decided to stay.

A months take it to roughly the week after the Melbourne win. So that's just as we were upping the offer again so good on him for staying quiet.

Also impressive a bunch of our players knew a few days before it was announced and it stayed quiet. Well done everyone on that.

Not the only one he told a month ago is it Brut

This is obviously a red herring and not the story you might think it is.

Dilena in the pre game Richmond interview (week after Melbourne comeback) was confident he wanted to stay and it was his agent holding things up.

Around the time the club was leaking to any supporter asking at events that they were confident he wanted to stay - Williams was the issue and difficult to work with. But they were getting more confident of him staying (I posted as such).

Williams obviously did a fine job for Nas. He got paid. But looking back, the club whilst not publicly saying much - was doing a fair bit behind closed doors to share their optimism at the time. (Looking back with hindsight)

Then you have Tony’s post saying the club knew he wanted to stay.

 

[thekizzler]

Which to me means that unless we really go belly up in the next 2 years, he’ll sign for longer.

I hope so.

Because if he spends most of his career at the Saints, it's likely going to be a good time for all of us.

 

[jimmytigs]

TDK, Butters, Curnow, JSOS, Flanders, Ryan, CMAC and Aleer. Hmmmm, not a bad off season

would be nice,but pretty flat if it only ends up TDK,the injury prone 28 and 29yo and the defender that needs a lot more development,

i will be happy once windy is signed(9 pages behind so that may be confirmed when i get to it,but usually i get notified of such news on disgrace book)and we get at least one of the others particularly flanders,if we get 2 of curnow cmac and flanders,i will be over the moon re our off field teams abilities

tdk flanders cmac(more likely than curnow),with the other 3 pieces,thats exciting,i think we can start drawing a map to the top 8,starting with 7 teams well behind us,surely this bumps us over the swans and we can make ground on the dogs,they went 12-0 against bottom 10 teams and belted most of them,we went 7-5,we finished 5 games behind them,so thats where we start

 

[One 2 Roo]

I'm not saying that you specifically are saying the following, but for me, comments like this beg the question - what did people think Lyon was up to? Did they honestly believe he was wanting to cash a paycheque and simply hang around for 4 years or more doing essentially nothing? He is a highly competitive person and if he wanted an easy workday and reasonable paycheck he could have easily stayed in the media.

It blows my mind that people buy into and believe some of the various narratives, things like Lyon only wanting to be ultra-defensive, being in cahoots with the President and wanting to avoid scrutiny and hang onto the coaches job for the bucks despite being no good for the modern era etc

SOS cops the same thing - not interested in success at the Saints, there because he's RTB's mate, only wants revenge on Carlton because of a falling out, not interested in success at the Saints, has free reign to use our list to exact revenge on Carlton with no oversight or thought for our lists performance......

Do people actually believe this kind of bullshit?

RTB and our President clearly stated there was a plan and there was a timeframe....we have done exactly what was said, in that effectively we have gone to the draft for 4 years or so, built a talented young core and we are now shopping around for the missing pieces of the list via trades/free agency which is underpinned by 4 years of salary cap strategy/savings.....

No doubt the club has turned around and we now have the foundations laid after tearing down the walls since the reincarnation of the Boss. My hope now is that we stick to the plan and not get ahead of ourselves in search of pushing up the ladder to early, only to find we have higher than middle team full of poor free agent signings and older players that ultimately does not have the talent to take us to the promise land.

On that basis, I am a firm no on JSOS, 50:50 on Flying R, I don't buy the Charlie Curnow rumor but that is also a firm no - this doesn't fit our demographic. Aleer may be not as good as JSOS right now, but could well develop into a better version of JSOS by the time we are seriously contending - that is they type we are seeking.

 

[stavro#4]

Totally correct. I have said previously that I give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but two things have to change going forward.
1. The players talk about getting a winning culture. Well that includes winning when the pressure is on. No point going 2 -10 then winning most games in the back end of the season when the season is shot. Might give the supporters a bit of a fuzzy feeling but that's it. We have done this twice in a row.
2. Even if we get a couple of the mooted players through the door, this is now Lyon's list. A fit King, Howard, Pou, and Henry, all virtually unseen this year and natural development of a dozen kids means he has to deliver.
He had been critisised for a dour defensive game. Well he has had three years to put his defensive game in place. It leaked this year because of the loss of Battle and key injuries. With Howard back, and maybe both Aleer and JSOS coming back, with Tauru getting games, the backline looks stronger. Time for us to get our attacking game inside 50 corrected. A fit King and Ryan, plus options like TDK, and Hammer forward should do that.
No Mulligan next season. Time to deliver.

Not sure anyone will give the club an out if we don’t make finals with this recruitment drive.

If we land 4 or 5 of the names mentioned. This would be the best stkilda list since 09/10.

Loaded with talent from top to bottom and substantial youth with sky high potential.

Ross says he enjoys expectations - and I believe him at face value. But ****ing deliver on it with the list your tracking to have.

 

[ARCHIE66]

Don’t know if this has been said, but was absolutely shattered to see the news that plugger Whitlock signed a contract extension.

 

[stavro#4]

No doubt the club has turned around and we now have the foundations laid after tearing down the walls since the reincarnation of the Boss. My hope now is that we stick to the plan and not get ahead of ourselves in search of pushing up the ladder to early, only to find we have higher than middle team full of poor free agent signings and older players that ultimately does not have the talent to take us to the promise land.

On that basis, I am a firm no on JSOS, 50:50 on Flying R, I don't buy the Charlie Curnow rumor but that is also a firm no - this doesn't fit our demographic. Aleer may be not as good as JSOS right now, but could well develop into a better version of JSOS by the time we are seriously contending - that is they type we are seeking.

TDKs first half of the season was elite. Be it injury or mentally checked out. His second half was poor. But if he buys into the fabled Ross work ethic - then he delivers a full season that’s AA level.

JSOS, weirdly enough - I really rated his work at CHB for Carlton. He is a poor man’s Battle. He would be a very good addition - if Fit. That’s the key part.

Aleer - I prefer JSOS as he is a free agent. Even though Aleer is more a traditional key back in size and has the elite athletic attributes.

Ryan - I’m a fan of Ryan. He is unique to our entire list. Henry closest but doesn’t have the overhead game that Ryan has and that’s what makes him appealing. As long as it’s low cost. It’s a good addition.

Flanders and Cmac - Flanders makes us better instantly. It’s really hard to ignore his work playing midfield last season. I like the good stuff Cmac does and his kicking whilst acknowledging he hasn’t come on as expected. Give me Flanders, but both make us better.

Don’t believe the Curnow rumours.

Can’t see how all that gets done and retaining Marshall or Steele or both?

 

[The Slug]

Don’t know if this has been said, but was absolutely shattered to see the news that plugger Whitlock signed a contract extension.

Very disappointing. I guess we make do with Curnow instead

 

[bergholt]

Wilkie probably the most unlucky not to get an AA but he's looked less bullet proof this year in a much less solid defence. He's covering all of our holes instead of being the champion back that reads the drop of the ball before it's hit a foot. I can see why they didn't give him a spot but Battle probably just as lucky with a big club loading adding a bit to his chances.

Wilkie is basically Tom Stewart, if he was playing for a top club there's no doubt he would have been AA four times already just like Stewart was - five AAs in the first 7 years of his career.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[CaptainRisky]

This is obviously a red herring and not the story you might think it is.

Dilena in the pre game Richmond interview (week after Melbourne comeback) was confident he wanted to stay and it was his agent holding things up.

Around the time the club was leaking to any supporter asking at events that they were confident he wanted to stay - Williams was the issue and difficult to work with. But they were getting more confident of him staying (I posted as such).

Williams obviously did a fine job for Nas. He got paid. But looking back, the club whilst not publicly saying much - was doing a fair bit behind closed doors to share their optimism at the time. (Looking back with hindsight)

Then you have Tony’s post saying the club knew he wanted to stay.

I don't know the ins and outs of the club but i can tell you on the 28th of July i got a message saying , Nas staying 2 year deal , TDK done , Aleer Done , Flanders good as Done , Another EX Saints player wanted to come back but i doubt that will happen , then the next day another Bird Told me about how we have been talking with McKenzie's management.
I had messaged a few this info so it can be verified

 

[bergholt]

Butler for Flanders signed sealed and delivered