List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[SainterinSydney]

being polite.......

It would be pretty arrogant of us to just say he is ours before the paperwork gets done. Carlton technically could change their mind in the interim (though highly, highly unlikely).

 

[SnapShotHiggins]

The last rebuild had us recruiting:

Howard - Pass. Can do a job but error prone

Ryder - Win. Gave us fantastic service, one of the key reasons in playing 2020
finals

Butler - Win, our only small pressure forward at the time, kicking 30+ goals consistently.

Jones - Fail, flanker pretend to be midfielder, tries hard, but not good enough

Hill - Fail due to high contract and trade capital, harsh but true. Was to be answer to our poor forward entry / ball transition problem. Ended up becoming a nervous error prone player.

This time we have:

Ruck: TDK
Small forward: Ryan
Mid: Flanders / Mackenzie
Back: Aleer

Difference this time is TDK is younger, and we focused on our major problem area in midfield and actually try to recruit true midfielders instead of a flanker (Jones) + winger (Hill).

That’s why L. Ryan is so important if you go through the top teams without exclusion The small forwards are hitting the scoreboard I don’t think in today’s AFL football you can be an exclusively defensive small forward who kicks occasional goals!

 

[TheJackal]

Obviously don’t know what you’re talking about Higgins 46 goals 17p a rate of 63% accuracy (in top bracket in AFL) improved from 52 percent last year but don’t let the facts get in the way of your story!

Ease up Tiger!

Read my post again, I'm talking about the mechanics of his set shot, nothing to do with its effectiveness or efficiency. So that's what I'm talking about, no stories and not saying it doesn't work for him - its just not a textbook ball drop.

 

[westernsainter]

Hill - Fail due to high contract and trade capital, harsh but true. Was to be answer to our poor forward entry / ball transition problem. Ended up becoming a nervous error prone player. Is only a cream on top type player.

I genuinely cannot fathom how anyone still thinks this.

 

[chris_h_11]

Seems odd to put in "Carlton have an opportunity to match" when they have said theyre not.

Although unlikely, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Carlton get an offer for Curnow that they can't refuse, and reconsider their position on TDK with that newfound cap space, before the official submission of the paperwork.

Given the Cold War going on between CFC and the Silvagni's, it would probably give them great pleasure to pull the rug from underneath us.

Just safer to save the celebration until its official.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Sadly, this isn’t far off from the truth. Saw Ryan this morning and got this on video:

Christ , he sure has tanned up , not to mention the arms

 

[aidansbonor]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

That's clearly payed off. Really trust him with those short kicks now

 

[aidansbonor]

I like...actually love...the clubs aggressive approach.

Time for us to hit the gas and bring our young core into playing for finals from 2026.

We can still keep building and developing our young talent, but overall our older group hasn't been getting it done over the last 2 seasons, super excited to see what we can do with a fit King as well.

Windhager has become overrated, showed alot in the back half but without elite disposal the club has to hold firm on a reasonable deal. Can't pay everyone.

 

[Sully111]

I like...actually love...the clubs aggressive approach.

Time for us to hit the gas and bring our young core into playing for finals from 2026.

We can still keep building and developing our young talent, but overall our older group hasn't been getting it done over the last 2 seasons, super excited to see what we can do with a fit King as well.

Windhager has become overrated, showed alot in the back half but without elite disposal the club has to hold firm on a reasonable deal. Can't pay everyone.

I bang on about the need for decent ball users probably more than anyone, but Windy has lifted in that area.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Yeah if he hasn't signed this week I'll be starting to panic a bit.

I think it's just crazy we have a longer term deal in front of a 29 year old small forward that looks to be past his best than we do for one of our best young prospects.

Imagine the deal we'd have offered to Windy if he was at Carlton. 1.2mil over 9 years I'd imagine

 

[Tom12]

I bang on about the need for decent ball users probably more than anyone, but Windy has lifted in that area.

We can agree to disagree, he's improved and has upside - but what's he worth on a new contract?

 

[SnapShotHiggins]

Ease up Tiger!

Read my post again, I'm talking about the mechanics of his set shot, nothing to do with its effectiveness or efficiency. So that's what I'm talking about, no stories and not saying it doesn't work for him - its just not a textbook ball drop.

Fair call I see where you’re coming from but lately he’s actually been getting the drop of the ball right but in reality has been working with goal kicking coachDavid Wheadon with his longer set shots routine and they have improved immensely over the last 12 weeks and you don’t get to 63% accuracy over a whole season without getting your technique and routine to a stage where you can see real improvement.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

If Hawthorn's pick gets us Flanders, then our first for Ryan and Flanders seems a no brainer. Future Second for Aleer, sign Windhager, and draft Fincher, go into next year with a best 23 of:

FB Stocker Wilkie Aleer

HBF Sinclair Tauru Flanders

C Windhager Steele Wilson

HFF Ryan Sharman Hall

FF Higgins King Marshall

Foll TDK NWM Garcia

INT: Macrae, Philippou, Hill, Wood, Owens

EMG Dodson, Clark, Boxshall

Great mix of youth, elite talent, and experience. No reason that team couldn't compete for top 6. If it clicks and there's no injury, then who knows.

 

[TheJackal]

Saints socials asking for our favourite Saints footy moment accompanied with the photo.

Looking at it and all I can think of is the Nas re-signing BigFooty circle jerk

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know they’re positionally different.

But if we offer Aleer or JSos $600k+ and still don’t give it to Windy, we’re just going backwards.

At some point you have to focus on building the fabric and culture, not just bringing in mercenaries.

We should offer Aleer a million....minus 100K for every goal kicked on him .

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

If Hawthorn's pick gets us Flanders, then our first for Ryan and Flanders seems a no brainer. Future Second for Aleer, sign Windhager, and draft Fincher, go into next year with a best 23 of:

FB Stocker Wilkie Aleer

HBF Sinclair Tauru Flanders

C Windhager Steele Wilson

HFF Ryan Sharman Hall

FF Higgins King Marshall

Foll TDK NWM Garcia

INT: Macrae, Philippou, Hill, Wood, Owens

EMG Dodson, Clark, Boxshall

Great mix of youth, elite talent, and experience. No reason that team couldn't compete for top 6. If it clicks and there's no injury, then who knows.

It’s a nice team on paper, I doubt there’s much to the rumours but I’d much rather JSOS than Aleer for this team.
Wilson, Hugo, and Mattheas need and are primed to make big leaps shortly I think.
No Caminiti because you forgot or no spot for him?

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

Just love this bloke and how he goes about it.Would play him ahead of Steele and McCrae,even put him in the leadership group.Just make his contract happen.

 

[akaifu]

Cordy arguably got us to finals in 2023. He was playing full forward as the leading player, negating the oppositions full back, and being the General in the forward line. He barely cost us anything (no compensation for Bulldogs), and seems like he was a great fit culturally. He came back after his pec injury and held down full back in the VFL to relieve Barrat, which aids his development too.

Interesting you say that - SteeleSaints has been bagging Barrat all year so I don't think he cares about your point there

 

[SainterinSydney]

Saints socials asking for our favourite Saints footy moment accompanied with the photo.

Looking at it and all I can think of is the Nas re-signing BigFooty circle jerk


View attachment 2409047

Windy not in the picture--Max Gawn.

 

[Broski]

If Hawthorn's pick gets us Flanders, then our first for Ryan and Flanders seems a no brainer. Future Second for Aleer, sign Windhager, and draft Fincher, go into next year with a best 23 of:

FB Stocker Wilkie Aleer

HBF Sinclair Tauru Flanders

C Windhager Steele Wilson

HFF Ryan Sharman Hall

FF Higgins King Marshall

Foll TDK NWM Garcia

INT: Macrae, Philippou, Hill, Wood, Owens

EMG Dodson, Clark, Boxshall

Great mix of youth, elite talent, and experience. No reason that team couldn't compete for top 6. If it clicks and there's no injury, then who knows.

I’ve missed a fair bit, how are we acquiring the Hawk’s first rounder?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Now that Harry Boyd has been delisted after 1 x less then average AFL game and 12 x average VFL games, I am going to get on my 'soap box' and highlight I told you so. Its now been proven to be a very poor list management decision at the time, yet the rubbish I copped for having a contrary opinion was interesting. He was never going to be an upgrade on Heath or other rucking options we had on the list.

Now to re-consider what my thinking was at the time as a result of the strength of last years draft.

As a result of jamming Boyd into our last list spot we over looked Lennox Hofmann (NGA medium tall defender), Zak Johnson (midfielder), Cody Anderson (midfielder), Luke Kennedy (midfielder) at the draft.

Then re-added a crippled Crouch at the rookie draft and overlooked other SSP options. Crouch retires after attempting a come back, when that decision should have been made for him much earlier.

Then overlooked this years mid season draft completely where there were players we should have looked at like Tom McCarthy (back flanker ball magnet), Harrison Ramm (200cm key defender), Archer May (198cm tall forward & Ex Dragon player), Liam McMahon (198cm tall forward) or even relisted Oscar Adams we were so short on tall defenders.

Not all the players listed above will have long AFL careers, but the majority will play a lot more games than Boyd was ever going to, some might even become 100-150 game players.

I just thought it was a great step sideways from Tom Campbell, who, while an average ruckman, was a great clubman.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The last rebuild had us recruiting:

Howard - Pass. Can do a job but error prone

Ryder - Win. Gave us fantastic service, one of the key reasons in us playing 2020 finals, single handly gave our poor mids a lift.

Butler - Win, our only small pressure forward at the time, kicking 30+ goals consistently.

Jones - Fail, flanker pretend to be midfielder, tries hard, but not good enough

Hill - Fail due to high contract and trade capital, harsh but true. Was to be answer to our poor forward entry / ball transition problem. Ended up becoming a nervous error prone player. Is only a cream on top type player.

This time we have:

Ruck: TDK
Small forward: Ryan
Mid: Flanders / Mackenzie
Back: Aleer

Difference this time is TDK is younger, and we focused on our major problem area in midfield and actually try to recruit true midfielders instead of a flanker (Jones) + winger (Hill).

I have trouble compartmenting the "rebuilds " like that. Then there is Henry, is he attached to a rebuild .?

 

[RWB4life]

I’ve missed a fair bit, how are we acquiring the Hawk’s first rounder?

Our first for ryan and hawthorn's (wc own it)

 

[SainterinSydney]

Is the mystery mid Walsh? The whole discontent surrounding Walsh and the previous noise as per Stav re Walsh?

 

[XhazzafootyX]

I do wonder Gold Coast stance on flanders

They’ve been known too be pretty flexible during trade periods

Do they see him as a required player still?