List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Remboy]

I think it’s a choice between us and Melbourne.

I was a lot more confident before King got appointed.

Hopefully it’s irrelevant and the club already had it sorted.

If we've been putting work into him during the season is be hopeful it would take more than a new coach to change his mind.

 

[stavro#4]

If we've been putting work into him during the season is be hopeful it would take more than a new coach to change his mind.

I have no idea on the outcome.

But relationships matter. The current breaking news of Adelaide being keen on Petracca is purely because of his relationships with ANB and Burgess.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Should hopefully have an answer on Flanders today or tomorrow.

 

[SainterinSydney]

I think it’s a choice between us and Melbourne.

I was a lot more confident before King got appointed.

Hopefully it’s irrelevant and the club already had it sorted.

Melbourne set for a period in the doldrum, whereas we look ready to explode. I know which club I would be choosing.

 

[TheJackal]

Close to 50 games. Averages 14 touches across each of his 3 seasons, not a goal kicker and in my view has no single outstanding attribute. He could explode but my gut on him is that he has about found his level and that is probably borne out be the fact that he has been very consistent across his career in output and Hawks moving him down the list this year.

I am breaking my own request about stats, but have a look at Flanders vs Mackenzie VFL stats. Ned absolutely explodes when playing VFL at the same age.

Cam seems rushed and fumbly in his highlights. He's young, but I'm starting to wonder if the jump is there or not.

 

[St Neil]

What am I missing with MacKenzie?

Every time I have seen him play he has been barely average.

Vanilla. Not a ball magnet. No obvious stand out qualities. I don’t see a huge ceiling for him.

Happy to be educated and proven wrong but he is nowhere near the value of pick 7, even with a later pick coming back.

Maybe I’ve watched him play in the wrong games?

 

[stavro#4]

I am breaking my own request about stats, but have a look at Flanders vs Mackenzie VFL stats. Ned absolutely explodes when playing VFL at the same age.

Cam seems rushed and fumbly in his highlights. He's young, but I'm starting to wonder if the jump is there or not.

You can also go on the afl app and watch his highlights v GWS this year.

 

[AFaiL]

Mitchell is sneaky and devious. He is breaking long held ethics and conventions that a senior coach doesn’t personally immerse himself into the lives of players from other clubs.

Further to that, he is also using his spouse as part of the pitch as she befriends the spouse/partner of targeted recruits.

Other clubs dislike what he is doing but, as Brad Scott said, the ground is shifting.

Other clubs will start targeting Hawthorn and soon they will be the victims. Everyone abides by the same salary cap and number of list spots.

Its typical Hawthorn, but if it works then all you can do is the same. They are clearly using the WAGs to manipulate the players (worked with Battle and now with Merrett). Obviously the families are important, but to involve the partner and get into the mind of somebody who isnt in the AFL system to manipulate them to sell this WAG fantasy.. Well, it's just typical Hawthorn. Fact is, it works.

Will come back on them as half their list are these young gen z babies who will burn the club at the first opportunity. Zero loyalty in that generation

 

[11men1cup]

Id rather CMac over Flanders as I don't rate flanders that highly.

But (if) as soon as Flanders nominates us you bet I'm gonna start calling him an underrated jet and to get his 2026 blazer fitted

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Close to 50 games. Averages 14 touches across each of his 3 seasons, not a goal kicker and in my view has no single outstanding attribute. He could explode but my gut on him is that he has about found his level and that is probably borne out be the fact that he has been very consistent across his career in output and Hawks moving him down the list this year.

Lenny reckons it takes 75 games to feel comfortable at the level.

He's shown plenty in his 1st few years to suggest he has a huge upside.

 

[akaifu]

I am breaking my own request about stats, but have a look at Flanders vs Mackenzie VFL stats. Ned absolutely explodes when playing VFL at the same age.

Cam seems rushed and fumbly in his highlights. He's young, but I'm starting to wonder if the jump is there or not.

What am I missing with MacKenzie?

Every time I have seen him play he has been barely average.

Vanilla. Not a ball magnet. No obvious stand out qualities. I don’t see a huge ceiling for him.

Happy to be educated and proven wrong but he is nowhere near the value of pick 7, even with a later pick coming back.

Maybe I’ve watched him play in the wrong games?

My opinion is that Mackenzie is more an impact player than an accumulator like Flanders is

His standout attribute is his composure in tight and ability to hit targets. I agree to an extent with Hawks fans who compare him to Sam Mitchell - hes not the type to explode out of a centre bounce and kick a 60m goal but he does the basics extremely well...like stavro's Max Hall comparison although I think he's more a midfield version. 188cm and can twist the hips to evade tackles and get his hands free - does that really well before hitting a chest most times

I still remember last year when a lot of Saints fans had doubts over why we recruited Hall when he was in the VFL. His stats won't jump out at you but if you watch every disposal of his, you'll see why he's so highly rated

Ultimately, I think he can be a very balanced midfielder who can not only win clearance but also distribute with impact - something that'll complement Garcia's contest work, Nas' outside class, and Boxshall's bull-like traits. Frees up Pou to pretty much play anywhere in the front half

Hawthorn see him as becoming close to on par with Day within a couple years - ahead of Newcombe

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Lenny reckons it takes 75 games to feel comfortable at the level.

He's shown plenty in his 1st few years to suggest he has a huge upside.

He's probably got as much exposed form as Phillipou, with less great games but also less stinkers.

I don't think he'll be a superstar (which Pou has potential to be), but no reason he can't become a grade, and contribute to a finals team at a high level. He's also got a couple of years of development under his belt, which suits our list timeline.

Overall, I think he's more likely to be a good player than the players that will be available at our first pick, but probably less likely to be an absolute super star. So low ceiling high floor. If we can get him and a mid second for pick 7, I'm all for it, as we can then use that second for Ryan or Aleer, or bundle it to trade for Flanders.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Close to 50 games. Averages 14 touches across each of his 3 seasons, not a goal kicker and in my view has no single outstanding attribute. He could explode but my gut on him is that he has about found his level and that is probably borne out be the fact that he has been very consistent across his career in output and Hawks moving him down the list this year.

I have no opinion on CMac but i agree there are way to many that get sucked in by the romance of we should get him because we have his brother , they are best mates , went to school together , he is a Sandy boy ect .

 

[TheJackal]

If the terms were the same and it was between St Kilda and Melbourne - I wouldn't want a player at my club who would choose Melbourne.

Dees might lose Petracca; Oliver and Viney aren't getting faster/younger. Their club has been a joke for 50 years, they lucked out with a flag in the asterisk year - then went back to being a joke club.

They finished lower than us for the past few years and let's be honest, they arent looking to shoot up the ladder in a hurry like we are trying to.

So yeah, easy way out and cushy midfield time = Demons. Fight for you spot in a team looking for immediate and sustained success = Saints.

Choice is theirs, but it will say a lot about their character depending on who they choose.

 

[The Punter]

If the terms were the same and it was between St Kilda and Melbourne - I wouldn't want a player at my club who would choose Melbourne.

Dees might lose Petracca; Oliver and Viney aren't getting faster/younger. Their club has been a joke for 50 years, they lucked out with a flag in the asterisk year - then went back to being a joke club.

They finished lower than us for the past few years and let's be honest, they arent looking to shoot up the ladder in a hurry like we are trying to.

So yeah, easy way out and cushy midfield time = Demons. Fight for you spot in a team looking for immediate and sustained success = Saints.

Choice is theirs, but it will say a lot about their character depending on who they choose.

If it is based on a previous relationship with a coach, that is somewhat understandable.

 

[Mystifly]

Possibly. I thought he was at West Coast but maybe it was just a preseason trial

It's funny that you thought of Van Es when thinking about WCE, but forgot Cripps

 

[SG34]

Mitchell is sneaky and devious. He is breaking long held ethics and conventions that a senior coach doesn’t personally immerse himself into the lives of players from other clubs.

Further to that, he is also using his spouse as part of the pitch as she befriends the spouse/partner of targeted recruits.

Other clubs dislike what he is doing but, as Brad Scott said, the ground is shifting.

Other clubs will start targeting Hawthorn and soon they will be the victims. Everyone abides by the same salary cap and number of list spots.

Yep.
But isn't it funny how some clubs and coaches are liked. Look at Hawthorn and Mitchell and Kane Cornes gushing over 'my man', and 'my Hawthorn' and picking Battle for AA etc.

Brad Scott got pounded after a very respectable 50% win ratio over a decently long stint at North, when it was really going through the grinder. He gets pounded at Essendon too, even through these injuries. And he says, the gloves are off and he is right. No doubt Hawthorn and Geelong have various ways of getting players and keeping their declared salaries low.

Damn.

 

[FQFjt]

Mackenzie was pick 7 in quite a strong draft.

We now have a lot more information about him, having been in the system for 3 years. Has his value increased or decreased since then?

 

[holllywood]

I agree. Hawks have been a bit shady talking to Merrett, now they want to underpay because the Bombers have to trade him because it’s untenable for him to stay. We copped the Hawks method with Battle last year. I’m really starting to dislike the way they are going about obtaining players

Why are they shady?

The only one who made Merrett’s situation untenable is Merrett himself and the Bomber media mafia (Twomey etc.).

We have done the same thing with TDK, JSOS, Aleer and Ryan so are we shady too?

 

[SaintJunior]

I agree. Hawks have been a bit shady talking to Merrett, now they want to underpay because the Bombers have to trade him because it’s untenable for him to stay. We copped the Hawks method with Battle last year. I’m really starting to dislike the way they are going about obtaining players

Likewise , and their playing list is just full of unlikeable players .

 

[stavro#4]

Why are they shady?

The only one who made Merrett’s situation untenable is Merrett himself and the Bomber media mafia (Twomey etc.).

We have done the same thing with TDK, JSOS, Aleer and Ryan so are we shady too?

Devil is in the detail.

Of the confirmed players wanting to come across.

We have done a medical with Ryan which only occurs with West Coasts blessing.

GWS knew about Aleers contract offer as he was OOC

TDK and JSOS both free agents.

Merrett is contracted. Met with Hawthorn behind the back of the club he captains and is now forcing a move through.

The Flanders report is not confirmed that we have received his word to be traded to us and Gold Coast denied he was available.

Marshall met with Geelong because Ross believes the playing group should explore their options - because it should reaffirm the information he is being fed back. Which is the environment and culture is top 4 in the league. IF Marshall leaves - it then feeds into RTBs point that it will only occur at the benefit of the football club.

Very different scenarios.

 

[BrutThough]

Mackenzie was pick 7 in quite a strong draft.

We now have a lot more information about him, having been in the system for 3 years. Has his value increased or decreased since then?

Playing VFL means value has gone down

 

[Minga]

I have no opinion on CMac but i agree there are way to many that get sucked in by the romance of we should get him because we have his brother , they are best mates , went to school together , he is a Sandy boy ect .

His highlights have stood out to me more than Flanders, personally.

Flanders is a bit older and has had 1 very good year, much better than what CMAS has shown so far, and is supposedly injured this year.

The romance side of things doesn’t hurt tho

 

[SaintJunior]

I agree. As much as I'm not a fan of Essendon, looking at the bigger picture, if a top four team wants to pinch the captain (and best player) of a bottom four team they can stump up some serious currency.

Quite enjoying seeing Essendon implode but Hawthorn can get stuffed .

If you want to poach contracted players then be prepared to cough up picks.

 

[From 45]

I’d take CMAC over Flanders but if they are going for both then I’m not complaining.

That being said, not sure how their midfield opportunities would improve? Steele, Macrae, Nasiah, Phillipou(?), Flanders, CMAC, Boxshall, Garcia

Tobie / Clark shunted to half back.
Windy to wing, maybe even Box too.
Phillipou, Hall, Owens forward line (unless Pou as a mid really comes on).

It would be VERY hot in the kitchen, I think one of CMAC/Flanders more likely than both given would be competing for spots. It’ll be easier said than done to push Macrae out if we are aiming for finals next year.

+ TDK, RYAN, SILVANGI if we have minimal injuries our seconds side would be class.

Ideally you want 8-10 midfielders rotating so I don’t see it as an issue