List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[Saintscomemarchingin]

Im pretty sure many if not most said theyd be happy for us to let him walk if he wants $800 or more a year but i also dont really care. Hes staying, its all pretty moot.

I liked Gresh, wanted him to stay
He's crashed & burned since he left for coin & playing on the G
I'm kinda happy about that now.

 

[Mat Mann]

Thomas is a flog of the highest order IMO, doesn’t have a lot of mates.

My Dogs mate said straight swap Jamarra for Wilkie

Ignore the click bait bullshit, if he were to leave we would probably fill so many needs by a trade it wouldn’t be funny.

Also look out Doggies, when Baines finally leaves the Dogs he will try to rape and pillage your club like he has the Saints.

He couldn’t get a kick in the OM’s Thirds (Club XVIII) but thinks he’s some sort of wheeler and dealer.

out of line on Thomas, you may not agree with him, but that doesn't make him a flog

He's right on the clubs being happy to play AFL vs others wanting to win. We were there until Bassat. Essendon, Carlton, a few other teams are firmly in that category.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah the game is about damage now and their ball movement game is off the charts. That’s why Carlton, Melbourne and even we struggle, too many no damage mids. I like our young guys though I just hope Ross plays them in there.

Ball movement but also transition (especially defensively).

You gotta be able to run and run hard. The dees in particular struggle here, Viney, Clarry and Trac just cant get back and forward quick enough. Carlton... **** knows, Walsh and Cerra and Hewett can all do the movement they just... dont. I cant figure out Carltons issues TBH, Elite FB with a good defensive unti around him that ticks all the boxes, two former coleman medalists. I know everyone says depth but nobodies 18-23rd players are "good".

 

[Diehard Saint]

Especially one Bulldog supporters with a little bit of power. Really its a bit sad, the delusion and thin skin.

Wait till they don’t get Wilkie….

 

[SaintersUnite]

Anyone actually watch the clip of Finey making the statement?

“He will definitely be at Melbourne next year… unless Saints can entice him to stay”

That’s such a ‘backtrack in one sentence’ it’s hilarious. Is it definite or not?

Reckon he stays still.

Cough cough btw, aren’t I a smartie pants

 

[nikkig98]

Anyone hear Grant Thomas on SEN today.
I was surprised.
Said he had never seen an era where players were so individualistic and single-minded about ‘getting a flag on their CV’.
Said that the onus was on clubs to prove to players they are going to win a flag soon …or else….

Said that 4-6 teams are serious. Implied that the rest are not, Brutal.

Cal Wilkie?

“SEN can reveal that Wilkie took a phone call from Beveridge, with the pair speaking about a potential future at the Whitten Oval.

Wilkie, 29, is contracted at the Saints until the end of 2027 and is still unlikely to leave Moorabbin, where he stands to inherit the captaincy next season.
But as reported on SEN.com.au last month, Wilkie has been disillusioned with the direction of the club for periods of 2025, particularly over its list management direction.

Now we call it click bait, and maybe so.

But I say it can be used as an excuse too.

And what is GT saying, that the other 14-16 clubs don’t deserve to have their contracts respected?

wow!

There isn't a bridge left in the AFL that Grant Thomas didn't burn and there isn't a job that he hasn't been sacked from. Who gaf what GT has to say

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Id argue (and this supports you) the dogs can cover losing Richards and Freijah (for example) alot more easily than we could cover Wilkie. Bont, Libba, Treloar are all still a grade and Sanders is a former top 5 (i think) pick plus they have their own Garcia, Vandermeer and others to be the grunt.

They also clearly need a key defender so...

Balls in their court, if theyre willing to go north of $1.1m a year then SURELY theyd be willing to trade a kings ransom.

I cant see us agreeing to anything theyd be willing to let go of but they should be forcing our hand.

Libba & Treloar likely retire at the end of 2026

 

[phantom13]

out of line on Thomas, you may not agree with him, but that doesn't make him a flog

He's right on the clubs being happy to play AFL vs others wanting to win. We were there until Bassat. Essendon, Carlton, a few other teams are firmly in that category.

He seems to spend ALOT of time and energy shitting on the saints, it all smacks of sour grapes.

 

[phantom13]

Libba & Treloar likely retire at the end of 2026

So?

They can cover for them next year, then theyll have Sanders coming on and supposedly Butters.

I obviously CGAF about their list makeup but if they want Wilkie theyll be paying, midfield is an area they can cover for now.

 

[StCicatriz]

There isn't a bridge left in the AFL that Grant Thomas didn't burn and there isn't a job that he hasn't been sacked from. Who gaf what GT has to say

didnt get sacked from the business he recently sold

 

[TheJackal]

I'm choosing to ignore the Wilkie talk.

But what about this idea, Leek Aleer to the ruck? OK, ok, this is a break glass option. But if TDK, Dodson AND Keeler/Caminiti all go down - the different ruck rules would probably mean an undersized athletic freak like Leek would be able to pinch hit in there.

For that reason, losing Marshall won't be the end of the world

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

So?

They can cover for them next year, then theyll have Sanders coming on and supposedly Butters.

I obviously CGAF about their list makeup but if they want Wilkie theyll be paying, midfield is an area they can cover for now.

Richards being AA this year & 26 y.o, suggests he's likely the best of their midfield right now & beyond.
They'd be nuts to let him go.
I'd take him, just what we desperately need.
Although in saying that
I have big belief in the promise of Hall, Nas & Pou being A grade mids
So happy to sit with that, instead of bringing in B & C graders.

 

[gringo2011]

What about Sanders and Busslinger plus ?? pick(s)? Considering Tassie will be required to swap picks for players, could be an investment.

We need to go now. We have just gone hard at topping up for immediate impact. I'd say no and roll the dice on getting into finals and looking on the up. Then attract Butters or someone who gets caught up in the hype. Doubt Sanders wants to leave and you can't force them to agree to a trade. Busslinger probably would if they traded in another tall back.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Im pretty sure many if not most said theyd be happy for us to let him walk if he wants $800 or more a year but i also dont really care. Hes staying, its all pretty moot.

My recollection was that people were questioning if Windy was worth a deal of $800-900k per year for 4+ as was being reported.

Common belief was no, he wasn't.

But the going rate of $$$ for guys of Windy's production has moved considerably in recent times.

He currently is a B grade mid who had a good year with a few outstanding games.

If he can maintain that excellent standard consistently then he probably will be considered A grade... fingers crossed he does now.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Busslinget is crap, that’s why they want Wilkie.

 

[Mr Platinum]

out of line on Thomas, you may not agree with him, but that doesn't make him a flog

He's right on the clubs being happy to play AFL vs others wanting to win. We were there until Bassat. Essendon, Carlton, a few other teams are firmly in that category.

No, he’s a flog, I’ve dealt with him personally.

 

[jwikked]

He seems to spend ALOT of time and energy shitting on the saints, it all smacks of sour grapes.

He wants them to be better than they have been. He set the team up and it’s gone to shit ever since.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree mate, just think the emphasis will be on him playing and impacting in the middle of the ground as much as possible. Could definitely see him being like Dusty and splitting between mid and forward the way he impacted the scoreboard in the second half of the year.

Don't think we will be sacrificing the half back role given we have another elite one in Sinclair and agree Flanders would help with that as well.

That HB rebounder architect is one of the most important in footy now. Having multiple players who can play it is a good way to stop yourself being shut down.

Having seen a lot of Lyon over the years I would expect him to play tempo footy still. Set up behind the footy to sit in a defensive holding pattern and then score heavily in bursts.

Having a sorted midfield will make a big difference to our scoring too. TDK should feed what we have better and King back should allow a bit more freedom up front. It will be an interesting season.

 

[phantom13]

Richards being AA this year & 26 y.o, suggests he's likely the best of their midfield right now & beyond.
They'd be nuts to let him go.
I'd take him, just what we desperately need.
Although in saying that
I have big belief in the promise of Hall, Nas & Pou being A grade mids
So happy to sit with that, instead of bringing in B & C graders.

Youre missing the point.

Can the dogs cover Richards in 26 given they have Bont, Libba, Treloar better than we could cover Wilkie.

Yeh absolutely, only a fool would say otherwise.

Can they moving forward better than us, who knows. From all reports Butters is keen on them and Sanders and Friejah have shown plenty, conversely Tauru might be Riewold Mk2 at CHB, maybe Barrett is a superstar in waiting, maybe Harris Andrews wants to play for us.

On current form and known output, theyd cover Richards, we wouldnt cover Wilkie.

My recollection was that people were questioning if Windy was worth a deal of $800-900k per year for 4+ as was being reported.

Common belief was no, he wasn't.

But the going rate of $$$ for guys of Windy's production has moved considerably in recent times.

He currently is a B grade mid who had a good year with a few outstanding games.

If he can maintain that excellent standard consistently then he probably will be considered A grade... fingers crossed he does now.

First bit is right but most of them were also very clearly stating theyd be happy to let him go for somewhere in that figure band.

Thats the point.

 

[St Neil]

Id argue (and this supports you) the dogs can cover losing Richards and Freijah (for example) alot more easily than we could cover Wilkie. Bont, Libba, Treloar are all still a grade and Sanders is a former top 5 (i think) pick plus they have their own Garcia, Vandermeer and others to be the grunt.

They also clearly need a key defender so...

Balls in their court, if theyre willing to go north of $1.1m a year then SURELY theyd be willing to trade a kings ransom.

I cant see us agreeing to anything theyd be willing to let go of but they should be forcing our hand.

You make the most relevant point of all.

We have a blue chip they desperately need. They can’t win a Flag without a player like Wilkie because he can marshall and organise their defence which is a chronic weakness that will continue to hold them back.

But Wilkie is contracted. He is St Kilda’s player. Highly rated. Next Captain. Former AA.

So to extricate him Bulldogs need to convince him to leave AND to convince St Kilda to trade him.

It’s not rocket science. It is what it is. So, get it done. Be a serious football club.

But it will be a difficult trade for the Bulldogs to make. It won’t be a fair trade because they are the distressed buyer. So they have to pay massive overs to convince St Kilda to agree to a trade.

Seems reasonable. Business is business. Why should St Kilda’s agree to do anything that is not in its own best interest?

To do this the Bulldogs trade assets they can cover. That’s how their list will be improved. Giving in order to get.

You have mentioned Richards and Freijah. That sounds about right to me considering they are the desperate buyer initiating the transaction. But that is a matter that can be debated. Big overs, certainly, but they can easily cover those players.

So they should just it done. Get serious about it. It’s their proposed trade and not ours.

We don’t have to do anything. In fact, we are happy doing nothing.

Put up or shut up Bulldogs.

 

[phantom13]

He wants them to be better than they have been. He set the team up and it’s gone to shit ever since.

They played in 3 grand finals in the 4 years after he left.

Then went to shit for 20 years.

We actually look like were back in some sort of shape now.

I reckon he can probably ****ing chill at this point.

 

[hayes]

Ball movement but also transition (especially defensively).

You gotta be able to run and run hard. The dees in particular struggle here, Viney, Clarry and Trac just cant get back and forward quick enough. Carlton... **** knows, Walsh and Cerra and Hewett can all do the movement they just... dont. I cant figure out Carltons issues TBH, Elite FB with a good defensive unti around him that ticks all the boxes, two former coleman medalists. I know everyone says depth but nobodies 18-23rd players are "good".

Carlton’s mids are just a better version of ours over the last few years. Cripps, Hewett, Walsh can all get the ball but nothing comes from their disposals. Same as Crouch/Macrae, Steele, Windhager. Petracca, Oliver and Viney are long bomb it in types.

Obviously Nas is good but I think Garcia, Phillipou, Wilson, Hall etc are all good with ball in hand so we’re lucky there.

 

[Mr Platinum]

didnt get sacked from the business he recently sold

He still got $116 million though, despite him being a shit bloke.

He’s like Neil Harvey, who whenever the media want to stir up shit about the Aussie Cricket Team they dial a negative quote from.

 

[StCicatriz]

i kind of want to see Wilkie nominate the dogs just to see them ****ing loose their shit trying to get that trade done

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah the game is about damage now and their ball movement game is off the charts. That’s why Carlton, Melbourne and even we struggle, too many no damage mids. I like our young guys though I just hope Ross plays them in there.

Yeah, Luke Hodge was saying that the game has moved away from inside bulls over the last few years. Clubs holding too many like Dees, Blues etc are struggling to move the ball the same way clubs with more modern set ups do.

Lyon was ahead of the game in a lot of ways and when he came back this time he saw the trend starting and made a move towards it. He kept saying that we were built for run. 10 years of drafting only HBFs finally got us a reward.