List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[stavro#4]

And suggesting he'll be a good key forward is pure speculation.

But suggesting he can be part of a successful side if he plays a forward - Ruck is proven to be successful for us.

That is an accurate distinction

 

[stavro#4]

Especially a contracted player.

Player don't and shouldn't run list management.

I also have no issues if he wants to go to Geelong.

But do so knowing that we will have a price point and if it’s not met, then bad luck.

 

[phantom13]

I might be the only one here.

But I don’t really see the need for us to pitch to our own players before pitching for recruits.

You recruit and work the rest out later.

I guess you dont HAVE to but the modern environment being what it is, its good practise.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Ive wondered for sometime if Sam and Cal and the others are getting a cut from the player Managers for this stuff.

It full on feels like fishing to me...

Would not surprise in the least.
“ Just keep the pressure on in the media.”
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

 

[stavro#4]

I guess you dont HAVE to but the modern environment being what it is, its good practise.

Is it?

So if Marshall disagrees with us pursuing TDK, are we supposed to stop?

 

[phantom13]

But suggesting he can be part of a successful side if he plays a forward - Ruck is proven to be successful for us.

That is an accurate distinction

Weve disputed the measure of success.

Im not saying ship Roma off cause **** him but there really is no precedent for playing two first choices rucks together so as it stands Roma is absolutely surplus to needs.

We should do whatever works best for us, if thats using Roma in that role then so be it, but most metrics support not playing two rucks and Roma has never looked particularly engrossing as a key forward.

 

[phantom13]

Is it?

So if Marshall disagrees with us pursuing TDK, are we supposed to stop?

Where did i say that Stav?

Pitching or consulting with Roma means at the very least he cant say he didnt know. This is the Battle thing all over again. Its pretty simple well known change management stuff.

 

[Remboy]

I'll tell you who else looked in ripping nick last preseason, Pou. He'll be like a new recruit as well, if he can stay fit we won't know ourselves. 8 or 10 games to shake off the rust and get back up to speed and then add him to the midfield !!

Yikes........

Our midfield should look a lot better with Pou, NAS and Hall in there from round one.

 

[stavro#4]

Weve disputed the measure of success.

Im not saying ship Roma off cause **** him but there really is no precedent for playing two first choices rucks together so as it stands Roma is absolutely surplus to needs.

We should do whatever works best for us, if thats using Roma in that role then so be it, but most metrics support not playing two rucks and Roma has never looked particularly engrossing as a key forward.

So what’s the pass mark here for this tandem?

For me is Marshall is a goal a game forward. Whilst giving us elite minutes when it’s his turn to ruck.

I think that’s a massive win. It’s effectively what Luke Jackson gives Freo.

 

[stavro#4]

Where did i say that Stav?

Pitching or consulting with Roma means at the very least he cant say he didnt know. This is the Battle thing all over again. Its pretty simple well known change management stuff.

I’m asking the question mate.

From Ross himself they told Wilkie Sincs and Marshall they were going to be aggressive at targeting players.

Based on the Edmund tweets, Marshall is taking exception because he wasn’t apparently told they were recruiting TDK and they would rotate between ruck and forward together.

The issue won’t be TDK, it’s that he doesn’t want to play that role.

So the question still remains. You tell Marshall and he is against it. What exactly do we gain here?

 

[phantom13]

So what’s the pass mark here for this tandem?

For me is Marshall is a goal a game forward. Whilst giving us elite minutes when it’s his turn to ruck.

I think that’s a massive win. It’s effectively what Luke Jackson gives Freo.

No idea, if his goal a game is offset by good defenses walking it out of the backline end to end for 5-6 goals a game then his 1 is a drop in the ocean.

Him, King and Sharman are three very slow very non defensive players.

I dont have a pass mark and im not against it (i personally dont think it works but Ross has forgotten more about footy than ill ever know) im only noting that Roma has never proven to be an effective forward and if were playing a forward/ruck then id focus on the forward bit more than the ruck bit.

Its also a little funny that everyone was stiff in the crotch about TDK cause hes such a good tap ruck which is an area we struggle with because of Roma but now all of a sudden hes elite?

 

[phantom13]

I’m asking the question mate.

From Ross himself they told Wilkie Sincs and Marshall they were going to be aggressive at targeting players.

Based on the Edmund tweets, Marshall is taking exception because he wasn’t apparently told they were recruiting TDK and they would rotate between ruck and forward together.

The issue won’t be TDK, it’s that he doesn’t want to play that role.

So the question still remains. You tell Marshall and he is against it. What exactly do we gain here?

I CGAF what Edmund says you know full well my thoughts on 95% of the media shit.

If you tell Marshall and hes against it then so be it, you dont NOT proceed with the plan cause hes not a fan but that doesnt change that its better management to inform people of change in any workplace including footy clubs. It also gives Roma the opportunity to pitch a different idea, come to terms with the idea thats happening or go "****ing love it, ill take a paycut".

If you tell him and he hates it then youre no worse off than if DONT tell him and he hates it.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I saw him speak at a Melbourne United Basketball season launch function. He came off as incredibly smug, super intense, but trying to project he’s all zen. And he was really preaching the moral high ground. I came away liking him even less than I did previously. Seems like an absolute douche

Smug is exactly the word I was looking for when I posted about him earlier.
Holier than thou fits the bill too.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Everyone was saying the same thing about Lyon V 1.0 at the Saints

I’m not sure smug is ever a word I would use to describe Ross.
Bit of a smartarse, obfuscating, just plain off the wall at times.
But never got the feeling he thought he was better than anyone else.

He definitely has matured since his first stint though. Obviously really admires Chris Scott and the way Geelong go about things and is not scared to say so.

 

[TheJackal]

Interesting that Melbourne expect us to delist Heath for them despite offering him a 3 year deal.

 

[phantom13]

I’m not sure smug is ever a word I would use to describe Ross.
Bit of a smartarse, obfuscating, just plain off the wall at times.
But never got the feeling he thought he was better than anyone else.

He definitely has matured since his first stint though. Obviously really admires Chris Scott and the way Geelong go about things and is not scared to say so.

Lyon is still often described as smug by plenty of oppo supporters. MacRae seems generally pretty respected.

Feel however you feel but i think theres some saints colored glasses on here, I reckon coaching in general is a very very tough gig and for the most part you have a persona and part that needs to be presented when public facing. MacRae is probably a ****ing freakshow behind closed doors (im sure he dumped his wife for a younger model didnt he) but Ross isnt a choirboy either.

 

[Lennylegs]

Incredible but not surprising how much the AFL media want our recent recruiting spree to backfire. It's been so hysterical. Can't really remember anything like it.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Smug is exactly he word I was looking for when I posted about him earlier.
Holier than thou fits the bill too.

who is this?

 

[AFaiL]

Just having a look at the list profile (before additions)

We have 9 players listed from Sandy and south (ie the peninsula, which we SHOULD be owning)

TDK will make 10.

Cats have 15 players from their peninsula region and continue to target

From talking to some locals, the Saints are doing minimal in the region.... prob something to look at. If geelong can keep finding players who like to 'surf and farm', we should be doing the same

 

[SainterinSydney]

Incredible but not surprising how much the AFL media want our recent recruiting spree to backfire. It's been so hysterical. Can't really remember anything like it.

I'm calling it St Kilda Derangement Syndrome. My theory is people are obsessed with us failing because at least even if your club is doing badly, you can always point to St Kilda and say, "at least we aren't as bad as the Saints". However, if we start to succeed as a club (on and off field), where will these supporters point to when their club starts going down shit river?

 

[AFaiL]

who is this?

Fly

 

[SainterinSydney]

Fly

Yeh, I can't stand McRae. Seems like a massive knob.

 

[Joffaboy]

I’m not sure smug is ever a word I would use to describe Ross.
Bit of a smartarse, obfuscating, just plain off the wall at times.
But never got the feeling he thought he was better than anyone else.

He definitely has matured since his first stint though. Obviously really admires Chris Scott and the way Geelong go about things and is not scared to say so.

Was talking more about young players not liking him

 

[Joffaboy]

Who gives a **** if it wasn't run by a contracted player.
He will play where ever we want him to. We can put him in the back pocket if we want or in the VFL.
He was happy enough to take the front loading, then an outside of contract 50 large bonus and to be informed what the club was doing.
He dictates eff all. We dictate what happens.
This meme that Edmund is persuing of 'unrest' in the contracted players is really a bit pathetic. First the bad tardy Saints haven't offered Wilkie, a contracted player, a new contract, now the sneaky secretive Saints haven't laid out all their plans to a contracted ruckman.
It is obvious all this is being run through the manager straight to Edmund.

You can see why people lose faith in these clowns tweeting half truths and obvious manager plants.

 

[austinnn]

I posted our stats, but ball in hand - we were much better than people realise. We fell away in the intercept stuff that then leads to easy transition and repeat 50s etc.

Threat Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks result in a shot at goal later in the chain compared to expectation

We ranked 8th at 1.69.
Geelong #1#1risbane #6#6awthorn #3#3etention Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks are retained by a teammate compared to expectation.

We ranked #3 G#3long #1 B#1sbane #7

#7ntre clearances we ranked #16 #16cruited TDK and looking at mids, Flanders?)
Stoppage clearances #7
W#7also got first possession #5th#5ththe league. But could only turn it into clearance 9th best in the league. Which is on par with league average.

Contested marks #16,#16elong #1 H#1thorn #7

#7tercept marks we ranked #18 #18cruited Aleer JSOS). Geelong #2 B#2sbane#6 Hawthorn. #4

#4oring shot inside 50 45% ranking us 8th
Geelong #1 H#1thorn #5 B#5sbane #11
#11o#11orenches we ranked #13.#13.side in the top 8 is below 8th for this rating.
Geelong #1 B#1sbane #3 H#3thorn #7
T#7s usually means we are launching under pressure as we haven’t won the ball cleanly or high enough up the field - usually via intercept.

Last one, time in forward half. #13
Ge#13ng #1 Bri#1ane#7 Hawthorn#8

WTF is this? It looks like statistical version of thst scary Caravaggio Brownlow painting i had Chat GPT create