List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[gringo2011]

It comes down to mids. Watch last nights game. We have one elite one now but we need two more.

Both those sides have less than stacked midfields. Adelaide too. Smith is an outside runner who can win clearance as well. Danger is just an absolute wrecking ball and then a lot of role players who can all be guns on their day.

Hawks have one absolute gun in Newcombe who again can run all day and win clearance then their next best was 2 meter tall Nash. Hawks again ave a spread of talent like Day and Weddle who can play elite footy at times.

We need one elite mid that can run and if that's Nas we have it. Garcia looks like a combo of run and contested clearance work so fit that modern prototype.

Windhager looks like his brand would fit well in finals. He can play close in chaos footy and work under pressure and pace.

These days getting it out into space is the key and guys who can run and spread is everything now. Good kicking and contested skills stand up in finals and home and away too. Being a quick thinker is even more important in finals.

We probably need another ready made mid regardless for rotations but he doesn't need to be elite, just good enough. Maybe Dow finally comes good.

 

[gringo2011]

All I’m going to say for now, is that there is smoke re Wilkie.

And that’s all it is right now.

Whatever dog posters are claiming re a trade return are all talking shit.

Weren't you one of the ones calling me a bed wetter when I used the term "smoke" about Wilkie wanting out?

 

[gringo2011]

Agreed, his manager and/or Wilkie should have the data to know if he's signing a unders contract or not.

Its he has been ill advised by his small town manager, then thats on them. Cal, change your manager and sign an extension on overs for after your current contract expires

To be fair nobody foresaw the Saints sending contracts sky high for GOPs and how much the salary cap increases on top of clubs doing a desperate top up before Tassie comes in. You would have imagined that contracts were going up by maybe $100k to $200k each not nearly tripling in some cases.

A few players who aren't that good are getting paid money that even the absolute stars of 5 years ago could only have dreamed of.

 

[St Neil]

Well he is contracted, so if it is not happening he stays. Bulldogs initiated this, they pay or he stays. And you over rate Richards incredibly. Wilkie has a huge offer in front of him and you want us to bend over. OK mate, glad you aren't the LM.

The offer has to be right and Richards on his own doesn't cut it.

100% correct.

IMO, it would need to be Richards and extras (eg. Freijah).

And even then, I’m not overly keen on that.

The onus is on the Bulldogs here. It is NOT a fair trade scenario.

 

[borderbarry]

I dont think we need anymore ruckmen. We have TDK, Keeler. Dodson,, yeh maybe one more if all of MarshaLL Heath. and the South Australian go.

 

[stavro#4]

Weren't you one of the ones calling me a bed wetter when I used the term "smoke" about Wilkie wanting out?

I think I very much explained the situation.

It’s very different to someone agitating for a move.

And it’s still as simple as, make us an offer worthy of Wilkie or no trade.

There is no fault on the club here like you pissed yourself over.

 

[gringo2011]

Love Wilks but this is madness. Richard’s value on the free market would be at least 2 1st rd picks, so that means by your logic Wilkie is worth 3 1sts including a top 5 pick? Simply not happening. Richard’s is 4 years younger, I’d say their trade values are pretty similar, if not slightly in Richard’s favour.

He is to us. We pretty much go backwards next year after all of our off field moves if him, Steele and Marshall all go. We are probably break even at best and maybe worse off. If the plan is to attack finals next year and start getting a challenge ready before Nas is up again and the older crew are still there it is a failed plan.

His value is whatever anyone is prepared to give up for him. We aren't actively chasing Richards and I doubt he even wants to leave the Dogs.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Chris Scott has met with Marshall twice.

They are really keen to get him.

Not sure why?
Could very well win a premiership this year.
Have Blicavs, Neale & SDK who all do a fair job in the ruck.

 

[Joffaboy]

Weren't you one of the ones calling me a bed wetter when I used the term "smoke" about Wilkie wanting out?

You framed it as discontent with the club. Wilkie has been offered 1.5 mill over 5 years.
He can't possibly get that from anyone else at 32.
It is not a club issue, Saints, or Wilkie have done nothing wrong, only Dogs will if they can't land him.
He hasn't even decided yet, and if he does decide the deal has to best interest for the STKFC.

 

[LeonardHayes87]

Jhye Clark hasn’t lived up to the draft hype but a high pick and on the fringes at the cats.

 

[gringo2011]

The club will look after Wilkie.

It also very much tells any contracted player. You are free to explore other options IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.

However unless the price we set gets met. We will see you day 1 of preseason.

I think what I’m trying to convey is that there isn’t an exodus. Or unhappy players. There are a few offers floating around that our boys might consider too good

Really not worth bothering as a club outside finals anymore, anything you do just sets you backwards. Probably shouldn't have bothered with topping up in hindsight. Paying overs for a bunch of GOPs was a dumb arse strategy that looks very likely to backfire at this point.

 

[Joffaboy]

Jhye Clark hasn’t lived up to the draft hype but a high pick and on the fringes at the cats.

Don't want GOP's

 

[gringo2011]

What happened to him seriously.

Was one of the brightest rising stars a few years back he looked ****ing horrible last night.

100% agree with this.

Wilkie being tempted by a truly monumental godfather offer doesn’t reflect poorly on him or us, it doesn’t even reflect poorly on the dogs (unless they get him comitted then can’t get a deal done).

Even if you love your job, if someone offered you close to double your salary you’d absolutely consider it

A bit like a lot of our recruits of the past his body just keeps letting him down so he gets no continuity or consistency.

 

[Joffaboy]

Really not worth bothering as a club outside finals anymore, anything you do just sets you backwards. Probably shouldn't have bothered with topping up in hindsight. Paying overs for a bunch of GOPs was a dumb arse strategy that looks very likely to backfire at this point.

Yeah just give up.

 

[hangdog]

Between here and Saintsational, I have never once claimed to have any inside information. Almost 20 years track record.

My source says that's not true

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

We should have a look at Donovan Toohey from the VFL as a mid.

I used to coach against him, very talented kid

 

[St Neil]

If so lose Wilkie, I don’t think we can afford to lose Marshall.

Why?

Different players. Different roles.

Cover Wilkie’s loss in a separate trade and morph an unrelated area of weakness into a strength.

Marshall is being usurped in the ruck by TDK. Other options are there as back up. Marshall is a fabulous player but he isn’t irreplaceable.

The other point that most of us have overlooked is recent media reporting that senior players have been unhappy with some of the salaries paid to incoming players.

That stuff isn’t coming from the club, so it’s coming from somewhere else. And that is understandably annoying for the club.

Maybe the time is right for generational change. Bring in younger replacements who will re-align the list profile while removing the barnacles of some who may be discontented.

As supporters we focus on what we lose in trades, sometimes involving players we are emotionally invested in. We don’t always focus on what we bring in and how that turbo charges our prospects over many years.

What the club is doing now is ballsy and strategic. Calculated and unemotional. It is about the next 5-10 years and not the next 2.

I’m wrapped they are having a crack.

 

[hangdog]

We are prepared to trade Marshall, but only on our terms. All media and fan chat about what pick we might like, I’m told it’s a player that we’ll ask for. Very interesting.

Welcome to the club, SDK

 

[hangdog]

SDK or better yet Reece Stanley

Any relation to Rhys?

 

[St Neil]

Wilkie's camp would want to be absolutely sure Doggies will stump up a decent trade offer before blowing up Cal's captaincy before it even starts

Correct.

It’s another reason we don’t need to panic.

 

[gringo2011]

I think I very much explained the situation.

It’s very different to someone agitating for a move.

And it’s still as simple as, make us an offer worthy of Wilkie or no trade.

There is no fault on the club here like you pissed yourself over.

By saying I thought there was smoke with Wilkie and the Dogs? WTF are you on about. This looks like your mate SOS has ****ed up his job again if Wilkie walks out. We aren't getting Richards or Bont. We'll end up with a couple of firsts and that is around his value.

It will do nothing for us and set us backwards over the next few years. If we stay bottom 8 we probably start leaking youth to bigger clubs who know we've locked up too much cap in a few players. We can never just relax as Saints fans. The club ind new elaborate ways to do dumb shit. Losing your elite players for GOPs is idiocy.

 

[stavro#4]

Really not worth bothering as a club outside finals anymore, anything you do just sets you backwards. Probably shouldn't have bothered with topping up in hindsight. Paying overs for a bunch of GOPs was a dumb arse strategy that looks very likely to backfire at this point.

You understand the situation would be the same irrespective of what we did.

They are being aggressive. I’d say there is a negligence to giving a 5 year 1.5m a season deal to a 30 year old - irrespective of current durability.

Again, there is no guarantee he goes. The clubs current expectation is that he stays and becomes captain.

 

[beside the seaside]

Jhye Clark hasn’t lived up to the draft hype but a high pick and on the fringes at the cats.

They got him and Bowes for literally nothing, both probably playing a grand final next weekend.

 

[tony74]

You understand the situation would be the same irrespective of what we did.

They are being aggressive. I’d say there is a negligence to giving a 5 year 1.5m a season deal to a 30 year old - irrespective of current durability.

Again, there is no guarantee he goes. The clubs current expectation is that he stays and becomes captain.

Callum will be at Moorabbin next year

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure why?
Could very well win a premiership this year.
Have Blicavs, Neale & SDK who all do a fair job in the ruck.

Blicavs is worth more in as a jack of all trades, Neale is their key forward and SDK a backman. You don't usually take a field spot away to fill in the ruck. Geelong are probably the ideal club for Marshall. He's not a traditional tap behemoth and is elite around the ground. He's exactly what they like.