List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Yawkey way]

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

How do you know what he was doing ?.

Also afl players are like a racing greyhound, they sure as hell aren’t carrying excess muscle and running the distances they do every game.

There’s also no way known ming went down tulip street to smash out a bp on the bench press. Also pace equals fast twitch explosive muscle, I’ve never met anyone with that sort of pace who had no power.

Let’s just wait and see what he looks like when summer is over.

 

[gringo2011]

See, another couple of weeks of working on you and I reckon we'll get you over to the light side!!!

**** that, I'm just building a pile of hope so that I can fall off it hard. Watch me go nuclear when they don't achieve anything. Blind optimism is the realm of the stupid.

 

[Therealsaint]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff

 

[Therealsaint]

Marshall will be going…….very confident on that,pretty simple really,get the pick and salary cap relief,especially knowing pick 7 won’t be with us…

 

[gringo2011]

I guess when grading players for A-D, you would need to ask who on our list would walk into a current 2025 top 8 team and who they replace in those teams?

I reckon from my A graders -Nas, Wilkie, Sinclair walk into any club and are top 5 by position in the league. Marshall makes the potential premier a stronger side.

I know I've gone early on Hall but I rate him close to the best most consistent high half forward in footy nearly....in his first year. Higgo is an elite small forward. Jamie Elliot is the only small forward who kicked more goals in a much better side.

Macrae probably the only question mark one. He's an elite inside mid but they are a dime dozen commodity.

 

[borderbarry]

If Marshall does go, we should pick up a young ruckman in the draft. There are a number of 200cm or there abouts in this years draft.

 

[gringo2011]

I have been hard on Max because I know he could be the difference maker. I genuinely would love nothing more than him making it.

Unfortunately, I am super disheartened by what I just saw. I understand he is coming back from injury, but he also has zero upper body strength. Perhaps the shoulder injury has hampered his ability to get stronger. Who knows.

I really struggle to see a world where he dominates at AFL level. He is that far off it physically, I dont see how he holds up to the rigors of AFL.

Many will laugh at me for this post, I don't care. If you have beginner levels of strength as a professional athlete in a contact sport at age 25 something is seriously off.

When you stand next to footballers it always freaks you out how slim they are. Even guys who look stocky are usually taller and slimmer than you realise up close.

 

[gringo2011]

If Marshall does go, we should pick up a young ruckman in the draft. There are a number of 200cm or there abouts in this years draft.

I'd look at Harry Lemmey that Carlton cut. More a KPF but can chop out ruck and maybe develop more of a ruck centred game.

VFL R8 | Lemmey's magnificent seven

Enjoy Harry Lemmey's standout VFL performance for Sydney.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[holllywood]

Was at a Bayside gym this morning and saw Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

trying to train.

Was even more surprised by the weirdo following him around. Poor Max couldn’t get to a working weight for any of his exercises because some random old guy kept standing like two feet away watching his every move, giving him pointers like he was Arnie himself (note, he wasn’t).

Max clearly had a program but every time he went to pick up weights, the old geeza would shuffle over, basically breathing down his neck.

At one point Max actually paused mid-set, looked around like, “Is anyone else seeing this?” and then moved to another machine to get away.

By the end, he gave up and just did some light stuff because it was impossible to focus.

Furthermore, why do these commercial gyms let boomers just loiter around the equipment like it’s a social club? Guy didn’t even train, just kept hovering around Max trying to give him pointers.

 

[Yawkey way]

I reckon from my A graders -Nas, Wilkie, Sinclair walk into any club and are top 5 by position in the league. Marshall makes the potential premier a stronger side.

I know I've gone early on Hall but I rate him close to the best most consistent high half forward in footy nearly....in his first year. Higgo is an elite small forward. Jamie Elliot is the only small forward who kicked more goals in a much better side.

Macrae probably the only question mark one. He's an elite inside mid but they are a dime dozen commodity.

I’ll take two of the dime a dozen please.

You’ve been super hard on the ball winners lately but if you haven’t got them you’re going nowhere. All that’s changed is you ideally want them to have some outside game. If I’ve got two like Newcombe I could play Winnie the Phoo as an outside mid and I’m still winning the clearances.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you have the old Saints goggles on. Agree on Wilkie, Nas, probably Sinclair at his best. Unless there is another category above A grade, no way are Marshall, Higgins and Hall at that level. Similarly B grade. If you are going to put Sharman, Wilson, Butler and Webster in that category then really every player in the AFL is in that category.

I think if you have an A grade, it has to be for the elite of the AFL, the top 50 or so. Great teams will have 5 maybe 6. Most teams will have 1, 2 or 3.

I think we have 3 you could make an argument for being A grade. Don't think Higgins and Marshall (may have been previously) will get to that level - we have seen what they can do. Hall, not even close. He is a vey neat footballer but he would need to lift productivity to go to next level.

If at the end of 2026 we can add Pou, Windy and King to A grade category we will be travelling extremely well.

Sinclair is in the top 10 of most player rankings and has been top 10 in Champion Datas for 4 years in a row. Higher rated than Nas.

Wheelo which I don't really love has Nas highest, Sinclair, Macrae, Marshall and Hall in their top 100 players.

 

[saintmike65]

Please give him 1 year as a permanent forward!

70% forward & 30% ruck..

 

[gringo2011]

That is a pretty strange take. Doesn't take a genius to make a pretty quick assessment as to how strong somebody is at the gym.

Observe what they are lifting, and the exertion that is required to lift said weight. It's not rocket science mate

He'd have a strict club designed program and if his shoulders are building up he'd probably be on pretty light duties.

 

[gringo2011]

I guess we all see things differently but IMO this is extraordinarily generous. NAS and Wilkie are our only genuine A graders. Sincs probably was but not anymore. I don’t think Macrae, Ro or Higgins ever were. A few could get there (Viking, Pou, TDK, maybe Hall) but still a way off. In reality we are loaded with B’s, C’s and a few D’s

Sincs is still our highest rated player in most player ratings.

 

[Yawkey way]

I reckon from my A graders -Nas, Wilkie, Sinclair walk into any club and are top 5 by position in the league. Marshall makes the potential premier a stronger side.

I know I've gone early on Hall but I rate him close to the best most consistent high half forward in footy nearly....in his first year. Higgo is an elite small forward. Jamie Elliot is the only small forward who kicked more goals in a much better side.

Macrae probably the only question mark one. He's an elite inside mid but they are a dime dozen commodity.

Higgo is a rare unit that’s for sure.

He’s a short, slow, stocky unit who isn’t a great kick but manages to play afl and kick bags. Interesting to see Ross talk about using him as a mid at times, dard thought I’d lost my mind when I suggested that last off season.

Higgo the enigma, I love his enthusiasm.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Marshall will be going…….very confident on that,pretty simple really,get the pick and salary cap relief,especially knowing pick 7 won’t be with us…

Looking at our list trade movement and what they might cost -

Ins:
Flanders + F2 = #7
Aleer = F2
Ryan = #43
TDK & JSOS free agents.

Possible Outs:
Marshall = #18 + Edwards or Clohesy (Geelong)
Steele = #33 + F4 (GWS)
Wilkie = #10 + F2 (Bulldogs)

If the above occurs it will leave us with -

2025 Draft = #10, #18, #33 (Fincher) & #58 (likely not used).

 

[saintmike65]

Last season, Flanders turned 23 in July. He was second in the comp for disposals that year, splitting time between midfield and half back.

He had a down year this year, reportedly carrying a back injury and being played at half forward since Rowell, Anderson and Miller were all firing in the midfield. We don't have any players who would have been a starting mid ahead of those three. Do you really think that GC see a player who was second in the comp for disposals at 22/23 years old as a list clogger? We're not talking about some cooked mid on the wrong side of 30 with no pace here. I'd do pick 7 (actually 12ish) and a third rounder for Flanders and a second.

I'd also prefer to keep Marshall unless Geelong pony up a serious trade haul, because I think the odds of both TDK and King both being fit and firing at the same time is quite low. Marshall is as good a ruck as TDK (who misses games every year) and is our best option to sit in the goal square and bring the ball to ground if King is injured (which is usually the case). If we trade Marshall, now we need to go searching for a replacement.

I've looked at vision of Flanders...smart, clean below the knees and capable in the air.
Would compliment our midfield mix, alternating between midfield and half back

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Jesus, now we are talking about the bloody Gym. Let's hope Max is having his Power Sauce bars!

View attachment 2438721

Those bars are working

 

[gringo2011]

I’ll take two of the dime a dozen please.

You’ve been super hard on the ball winners lately but if you haven’t got them you’re going nowhere. All that’s changed is you ideally want them to have some outside game. If I’ve got two like Newcombe I could play Winnie the Phoo as an outside mid and I’m still winning the clearances.

Newcombe is a unicorn. He's an inside ball winner with mobility and run. Butters is similar but they are nearly impossible to get hold of. It allows you to play a second extractor as well.

Inside bulls are out of fashion with run and gun footy. You need one really good one and then bunch of hybrids. I still love seeing the good ones in full flight but to award the Brownlow only to a a very specific set of attributes when they've never been held at a lower esteem is weird.

 

[Yawkey way]

When you stand next to footballers it always freaks you out how slim they are. Even guys who look stocky are usually taller and slimmer than you realise up close.

Lenny looked like he had 26” waist, those jumpers are so small it makes them look huge.

 

[The Slug]

Was at a Bayside gym this morning and saw Max King trying to train.

Was even more surprised by the weirdo following him around. Poor Max couldn’t get to a working weight for any of his exercises because some random old guy kept standing like two feet away watching his every move, giving him pointers like he was Arnie himself (note, he wasn’t).

Max clearly had a program but every time he went to pick up weights, the old geeza would shuffle over, basically breathing down his neck.

At one point Max actually paused mid-set, looked around like, “Is anyone else seeing this?” and then moved to another machine to get away.

By the end, he gave up and just did some light stuff because it was impossible to focus.

Furthermore, why do these commercial gyms let boomers just loiter around the equipment like it’s a social club? Guy didn’t even train, just kept hovering around Max trying to give him pointers.

 

[gringo2011]

I've looked at vision of Flanders...smart, clean below the knees and capable in the air.
Would compliment our midfield mix, alternating between midfield and half back

To me that's the perfect model. Nas comes off HB to midfield as an impact player but we still need run and delivery to cut through the press. Send Flanders back to run along side Sincs.

 

[Simon Templar]

Was at a Bayside gym this morning and saw Max King trying to train.

Was even more surprised by the weirdo following him around. Poor Max couldn’t get to a working weight for any of his exercises because some random old guy kept standing like two feet away watching his every move, giving him pointers like he was Arnie himself (note, he wasn’t).

Max clearly had a program but every time he went to pick up weights, the old geeza would shuffle over, basically breathing down his neck.

At one point Max actually paused mid-set, looked around like, “Is anyone else seeing this?” and then moved to another machine to get away.

By the end, he gave up and just did some light stuff because it was impossible to focus.

Furthermore, why do these commercial gyms let boomers just loiter around the equipment like it’s a social club? Guy didn’t even train, just kept hovering around Max trying to give him pointers.

How inconsiderate of me... I really should have given Max more personal space. As an old geezer I can't train anymore but it's nice to watch others.

 

[sainter7]

Looking at our list trade movement and what they might cost -

Ins:
Flanders + F2 = #7
Aleer = F2
Ryan = #43
TDK & JSOS free agents.

Possible Outs:
Marshall = #18 + Edwards or Clohesy (Geelong)
Steele = #33 + F4 (GWS)
Wilkie = #10 + F2 (Bulldogs)

If the above occurs it will leave us with -

2025 Draft = #10, #18, #33 (Fincher) & #58 (likely not used).

10 and a future second for Wilkie, an absolute freak, would lead to me burning every piece of saints merch I have and then jumping into sandy beach with a few bricks strapped to each leg

 

[gringo2011]

Lenny looked like he had 26” waist, those jumpers are so small it makes them look huge.

When my son was little he spent his pocket money on Stuv's used player jumper. He was a skinny little runt and the top was tight on him as a 10 year old. I tried to get it on and I would have dislocated a vertebrae if I'd bent over. I was a pretty average build the time..... and Stuv looked like he carried a bit of weight compared to others.