List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Premium]

This is all true and again, personally, I’m glad we bailed on the deal, the only issue is the optics.

In all we have to be pleased with who we have picked up - getting a useful defender a good ruckman and a good midfielder we have strengthened the squad tremendously - if King can get back on the Park we will have covered all areas.
I'm hoping Marshall stays because he is worth more to us than a late first round pick , same goes for Steele - good to have solid players to fill any gaps.

I fully believe we could pick up another good player when the trades start getting pushed for time.

 

[Significant]

We cannot keep Max Hall on the rookie list. We need to get him signed up on a proper long-term contract ASAP, he would be the only untradeable player on our list besides Nas in my view.

He isn't a risk of getting picked up elsewhere, he has already signed on for more years, but he can stay on the rookie list for 3 seasons until he must be upgraded.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Change of discussion - what’s this I heard on the news tonight that every club will be getting an extra list spot to draft an Indigenous player?

Is that a little weird, or no?

Nah, the more opportunities there are for populations who may typically have a rougher time of reaching the top level than your standard caucasian Victorian private school boy, the better IMO

Just ideally not in a way that compromises the draft, which this would not, as it's a rookie spot I believe?.

 

[Significant]

ARE YOU SURE MATE?

The only reason I am capslock is because posters are still arguing over why we have done what we have done, and I've answered them!

It literally makes sense on so many levels and explains a whole lot of different things.

SOS not being involved with JSOS discussion may have hurt because he has taken up a list spot that SOS didnt factor in that we had.

The reason we went so public with Steele as a contracted player being open to a new home.

The reason the Marshall stuff played out the way it did today, resulting in the Curnow trade option by Geelong.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Interesting how this story is playing out though. Cal Twomey went first with:



Then not long after, Tom Morris had a slightly different take:



Less of a "pulled out of its interest" and more "don't have the picks to satisfy GWS demands".

And then, even later, Jimmy Bartel goes with:

"A future 2nd round pick would have got the job done (for the Giants), the Giants would have accepted that. But then, the Saints were asking for more back in return. That was knocked back by the Giants."


Lloydy then goes on to suggest we ran out of money and were looking for a way out of the deal... ignoring that we then went off and used that 2nd round pick as part of the Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

trade instead.



SO. This to me is looking and sounding a lot like the Brad Hill trade of yesteryear; Saints approach Freo, Freo ask for the early 1st round pick, Saints say no and go off and split the 1st round pick to Fremantle's annoyance, Saints then spend the rest of the trade period trying to get another pick close to the original value to satisfy Fremantle.

Right now, we're at the "annoyed oppo club after trading the pick they wanted" stage. Whether we're actually walking away from Aleer all together or not remains to be seen and whether we try to get picks together to get a deal for Aleer done remains to be seen. But Aleer's manager having a massive public sook halfway through the trade period seems a little childish to me (unless we have categorically ruled out any further interest in Aleer regardless of picks).

Right now we are right in the middle of the eye of the storm (in a teacup).

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Change of discussion - what’s this I heard on the news tonight that every club will be getting an extra list spot to draft an Indigenous player?

Is that a little weird, or no?

Very

 

[BrutThough]

IT IS LIST SPOTS!

ALEER DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE MARSHALL TRADE, AND THE REASON WHY WE PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON STEELE!

you think. Does any source exist that shows that is the reason why.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

IT IS LIST SPOTS!

ALEER DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE MARSHALL TRADE, AND THE REASON WHY WE PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON STEELE!

ARE YOU SURE MATE?

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I'm not convinced we'll take more players than Fincher in the draft. If we also moved Caminiti and Hall to the senior list, we shouldn't need to delist Schoey (unless mif Cary math ain't mathing?).

If Carroll has been re-signed as a rookie
Means we have 2 cat A's- Carroll & Hall
2 cat b's- irish lads
32 on the main list
Add 4 trade recruits & fincher
Means 41 on the list
3 list spots available
2 x rookies- Voss & Wanganeen
1x primary
It's out of Byrnes, Heath- traded?, Jones, Schoey, who could be retained

 

[Sully111]

The only reason I am capslock is because posters are still arguing over why we have done what we have done, and I've answered them!

It literally makes sense on so many levels and explains a whole lot of different things.

SOS not being involved with JSOS discussion may have hurt because he has taken up a list spot that SOS didnt factor in that we had.

The reason we went so public with Steele as a contracted player being open to a new home.

The reason the Marshall stuff played out the way it did today, resulting in the Curnow trade option by Geelong.

 

[Hayes4PM]

View attachment 2451384

Is this like getting champed???

 

[Significant]

If Carroll has been re-signed as a rookie
Means we have 2 cat A's- Carroll & Hall
2 cat b's- irish lads
32 on the main list
Add 4 trade recruits & fincher
Means 41 on the list
3 list spots available
2 x rookies- Voss & Wanganeen
1x primary
It's out of Byrnes, Heath- traded?, Jones, Schoey, who could be retained

Carroll not a rookie based on this:

St Kilda Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[Diehard Saint]

The only person in the media that has seemingly bothered to make calls and get the facts - Jimmy Bartel - has said we were happy to meet the 2nd round pick demand from GWS, but they didn't want to negotiate, so we walked.

How is that us being the bad guy

Can’t possibly make a mountain out of a molehill from that.

 

[Sully111]

Is this like getting champed???

Not at all

It's just me being an idiot, really

 

[BrutThough]

Looking at list spots by looking at the INS and OUTS;

Webster -> TDK
Cordy -> JSOS
Boyd -> Flanders
McLennan -> Ryan
Heath ->
Jones ->
Byrnes ->
Shoemaker ->

If everyone without a contract goes, it still leaves us with 4 empty spots while keeping Marshall and Steele. This presumes Carrol has a contract despite that not being confirmed anywhere. So we would have had list room for Aleer if that trade did happen.

And before the 'main list, rookie list' discussion starts, there are so many ways to move players between the lists that it does not matter where one is counted for the sake of this simple exercise.

 

[westernsainter]

He isn't a risk of getting picked up elsewhere, he has already signed on for more years, but he can stay on the rookie list for 3 seasons until he must be upgraded.

There will be a stack of clubs lining up to get him to request a trade. Freo tried similar stuff with keeping Schultz on their rookie list and it ended terribly. Hall is a genuine gun and deserves that recognition, I wouldn't be playing silly buggers with him to give us a tiny bit more flexibility.

 

[luca77]

This could all have been avoided if Gubby and RTB had bloody well told SOS they were recruiting his son. SOS was busy selling a job to Aleer that wasn't going to be there.

Poor communication by our boys.

Seriously, though, at least the media will have justification to give us the B minus for the trade period we were always going to get at best.

Will be interesting to see if Aleer accepts the GWS deal or hits up the PSD. A lot of opinions will look pretty silly if we're bluffing and he gets to us anyway. Unlikely, but who really knows?

You can lure a player, but there are no guarantees with these things. We got burnt a bit by Peter Bell, so GWS probably thought we would eventually say yes, and we didn't want to waste the period playing that game again so nipped it in the bud.

All good, Aleer will be making good money playing somewhere next year. No real harm done.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hickey may have been unknown to you at the time but I recall many of us being pretty happy to get him.

He’d played a cracker of a game against us earlier that season & looked like a great get.

As for Grundy, it was a massive shock that GWS didn’t take him in the top 10

From memory there was some change to the ruck rules in 2013 that didn't help Hickey's style.

 

[moirae42]

More faff from the footy media.

And since when do we exist to make other clubs better FFS?

Cats wont bone up for Marshall? He's contracted. Move on.
Giants price too high for Aleer and wont soda up the return? Move on.

So be it.

Bad look indeed.

 

[phantom13]

I'm happy to say that this place is my only source of AFL media. Sure, it's regurgitated down my throat like a baby bird, but i haven't seen barrets face in ten years. #winning

I listened for a decent chunk yesterday.

To say you’re not missing anything would be an understatement on par with saying Epstein liked Sonic Youth (I didn’t really follow that story, I assume that’s right)

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Carroll not a rookie based on this:

St Kilda Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

How's that?
He had a 1 or 2 year? contract on the primary list did he?
Or if we have re-signed him recently for 2026, why would he have to be on the primary list.
Would of thought rookie would do, seeing we only have Hall on it for 2026.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Other way around.

Caldwell bailed within 24 hours of us signing Crouch or Crouch nominating us I forget the details.

And consigned himself to a career of mediocrity. Much deserved for a Saints supporter growing up who bailed on the opportunity to play for his childhood club.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

If Aleer does somehow get to us, he has to fire his manager. Absolute nuffy move having a tantrum through the media this early in the piece

 

[MrFoster]

I feel like this Aleer deal going down the gurgler means either SDK or De Goey is on our radar…

Straight swap, De Goey in, Steele out. We’ll add our F2.

 

[Significant]

32 on senior list, down from 38
Losing Jones, Byrnes, Cordy, Schoenmaker, Webster, Heath

2 on rookie list, down from 4
Losing Boyd, McLennan

2 on Cat B rookies unchanged (OConnell, Armstrong) - think the rule is if you have 2 x Cat B rookies one has to be on your Cat A rookie list

---‐----‐-----------

Gaining TDK, JSOS, Flanders, Ryan through trade

36/3/1

----------------------

Need to draft 3 at the ND (including a Caminiti upgrade from rookie list)

39/2/1

---‐------------------

Need to then draft 2 x rookies

39/4/1

Gives us our 44 player list