List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[SainterinSydney]

650-750k more we can chuck towards midfielders, whether future trade or our guys

One of our young lads is bound to sky-rocket and demand huge coin

It was a dog act by us 100%, but didn't need that cap hit for a VFL player

That extra coin will help next year, I think. Aleer could have been in the VFL much of the time next year.

 

[stavro#4]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

Yet if a deal was done for a third rounder, we would have.

Go figure

 

[Rogue Warrior]

The "three first rounders" for Curnow is exactly why we need to stop referring to rounds in describing picks (they change size every year) and refer to number instead.

Geelong first rounders aren't very good ones. They're not the same as North Melbourne first rounders.

Hit the nail on the head!

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Saints don't wanna pay him anymore. Let's not overcomplicate it.

No if GWS weren't flogs at the trade table the Saints would have been still happy to pay/take him.

Or a F3 was previously agreed on and because of the Giants dealing re Oliver they then asked for a F2 and our club told you to take a hike.

Now you are stuck with Aleer who you desperately wanted off your books, plus Leverde which back fired big time.

 

[MrFoster]

So, like, on the surface at least, and barring the emerge of the shadowy Mystery Mid (tm), it looks like we're done?

Only way we do more trades is if clubs are willing to meet our demands (Marshall), clubs are willing to lower their demands for their players (Aleer), or a club emerges as a good fit for wanted but not required players (Steele)?

Seems like we can only have positive outcomes from here, unless we shoot ourselves in the foot or change our modus operandi?

How is everyone feeling about trade and free agency? Are we satisfied with:

In:
TDK
JSOS
Flanders
Ryan
2027 3rd Round Pick (WC)
2027 4th Round Pick (Dees)

Out:
Pick 8
2026 Second Round Pick
Heath

Not a lot out for quite a bit in, when you look at it as a whole.

Butler maybe moving to the suns for a late pick or player

 

[SainterinSydney]

Butler maybe moving to the suns for a late pick or player

Ainsworth?

 

[LH7]

The main argument for keeping Ro for me is insurance if TDK goes down. We can't expect Keeler and Dodson to hold down the ruck and expect to be final's contenders.

If Ro left now we would surely get an established back up ruck cheaply. I think the main argument for keeping Ro is to try to play him with TDK, especially now with 5 on the bench, which would make him worth more to us than what Geelong are/were offering.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Hit the nail on the head!

There should be a tier system for first rounders--"Geelong offered Three West Coasters" if they are top 10 picks, or "Geelong offered three Shitters" if they are in the 20s.

 

[Lennylegs]

If Ro left now we would surely get an established back up ruck cheaply. I think the main argument for keeping Ro is to try to play him with TDK, especially now with 5 on the bench, which would make him worth more to us than what Geelong are/were offering.

I'd also reckon that our lack of an established second key forward would be part of the reason we don't wanna lose Ro. Also king's injury issues, etc

 

[sasaint]

The "three first rounders" for Curnow is exactly why we need to stop referring to rounds in describing picks (they change size every year) and refer to number instead.

Geelong first rounders aren't very good ones. They're not the same as North Melbourne first rounders.

And you would then think that the Blues would be crazy to trade Curnow for three very average picks. I am of the belief that this trade proposal by the cats will fall apart and then they will at the last minute offer the F1 we need to complete the Marshall trade. Watch this space.

 

[jh38]

Butler maybe moving to the suns for a late pick or player

That key back, Oscar Adams looks alright, or maybe Ben Long.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Yeh i agree to a point.

We agreed with Roma that wed discuss it, so were obligated to do that. Beyond that i think were well within our rights to walk away, the issue (and original discussion point) is that this isnt the same as the Aleer deal, which its not because in that scenario we were Geelong and we walked.

Theyve been intertwined into the narrative, if the Aleer thing hadnt happened, the Roma stuff wouldnt even be discussed.

Okay so now we are in a different conversation which is about how "hard" we try in these discussions.

Agree we probably tried about as hard with Roma as we did with Wilkie.We listened out of respect. Thats enough. We are happy to keep the asset, so WTF would we try hard to get rid of it.

A different conversation is how "hard" we tried with Aleer. This is also tied up with 2 things that are being conflated together. Some people are saying we walked away from negotiating with the Giants. Others are saying we walked away from our interest in Aleer. These are actually 2 overlapping but different things.

The media narrative seems to be we walked away from Aleer. However, the fact we offered the F2 to GWS BEFORE we spent it elsewhere tells me we walked away from the Giants, and Aleer was just the collatoral damage.

As far as I can tell we had one F2 to spend. We offered it for Aleer FIRST (and asked for change). GWS said no. We then offered it to WC for Ryan (and asked for change). They said yes.

That sequence of events tells me we didnt walk away from interest in Aleer. That tells me we had x amount to spend. There was a queue of players to spend it on. We started with Aleer, but after GWS said no we spent it elsewhere.

For some reason people assume that these discussions have to be drawn out, and dialogue has to go back and forward. I have never understood that. We offered. GWS said no. We left. That was Aleer's window. We wanted him. Its not our fault that GWS wanted to start high, and play some back and forward bidding game we had no interest in. That is on Aleer's management for not getting GWS to accept the first offer.

Now we circle back to a conversation about "how hard did we try to get Aleer." The answer is not very. And he has some right to be pissed about that. But we were getting things done in multiple directions. Everyone in the industry can see that. If he had a better manager, maybe they push GWS to not dick around posturing (like when Dodoro used to open every negotiation with some stupid ask trying to look like a hero. Thats just amatuer crap). They accept our offer and Aleer is a Saint

Message is, get on the train or you get left behind. He missed it. Yes its pretty damn harsh. But at least he can go home to a 3 year contract. Or he has a week to find his way to the Dogs or North. His manager needs to spend more time focused on getting his player to where he wants, and less time throwing the toys out of the cot when things don't work out.

 

[Pbft]

Ohhh so it's all about relativity is it?

So if you sell your house and out an offer for a new home. The bloke buying your house pulls out at the last minute and all your plans fall apart.

"Oh well, I'm just so thrilled to be a home owner in this housing market. How lucky am I to have a house to sell? What a great day it is".

So this actually happened to me 18 months ago as part of our plans to move to FNQ.

Rather than sulking in the corner, we simply got on with it, we readvertised and sold 3 weeks later for a slightly lower offer.

Sure it was stressful, it was inconvenient and even cost us some unplanned $$ but we found a way - and there were always contingencies.

The good lord helps those that help themselves.

 

[The_Steadier]

Declaring that we are walking away does multiple things.

A) Gives Aleer time to find another home if GWS don’t lower their asking price

B) Tells GWS that we aren’t fluffing around, so come and make a deal or don’t.

Just because a player commits to he club doesn’t mean a trade has to be done, especially if the club has an unrealistic ask or is asking for something the other club can’t give.

Not everything has to be friendly

Nah it's done.

We haven't walked away from the negs table, but still left the door open.

We walked away from the negs table and blew the whole building up on the way out (not calling him or his manager etc).

You are right that we did it now so aleer has time to find a new club- but aleer will never play for us- even if gws offered him for free.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Butler maybe moving to the suns for a late pick or player

Source?

 

[Bob Butter]

I dont think you play 2 rucks in modern footy and Roma is a first choice ruck so i think he makes very little difference to our fortunes except as a back up.

A lot more teams will be running two rucks next season with the new 5 on the bench/no sub rule. Personally, I still don’t like the idea of playing two full time ruckmen in the same side in most cases, but I don’t feel like Marshall fits that bill at all.

He’s undersized and always has struggled against the big boys, in this case he’ll absolutely dominate 2nd rucks and should give our mids an advantage. And he was drafted as a fwd and has decent forward craft, and he’ll also take a lot of pressure off King and provide another big target. Also our best seasons in the Marshall era were when Ryder was at the club in this exact scenario.

 

[Sully111]

It's interesting that so many of us were scratching our head when it came to us chasing Aleer.

SOS and Gubby should just come on this thread and ask our advice.... save themselves a lot of drama.

 

[SainterinSydney]

It's absolutely hilarious seeing other teams saying we have burnt bridges with the Aleer situation when we are the team who has knocked out the most deals this trade period (and in quick fashion). I bet we have made quite a number of managers much wealthier with our re-signings, free agents and trades.

Though it is not ideal, we have at least given Aleer time to either see if he can land at another club or, at worst, stays at Giants. Imagine if we had played paddy cake and said nah 10 min before the bell at the end of the trade period. I bet Aleer and his manager would have loved that.

The St Kilda Derangement Syndrome is alive and well!

 

[borderbarry]

Anybody know the two players we are now looking at?

 

[ARCHIE66]

In other trade news…

 

[SainterinSydney]

It's interesting that so many of us were scratching our head when it came to us chasing Aleer.

SOS and Gubby should just come on this thread and ask our advice.... save themselves a lot of drama.

If we hadn't taken JSOS, I would have wanted Aleer more, to be honest.

 

[sauce_head]

So assuming I understand this correctly:

St.Kilda signed 2 free agents

5 or 6 trades have been sucessfully completed this trade period. St.Kilda was the buyer or seller in half of those.

St.Kilda approached 2 contracted players, and subsequently completed quick and painless negotiations. Clubs walked away happy in both cases

We told our captain that we were happy for him to look around and would facilitate a deal if he wanted more guarenteed playing opportunity. He said he would prefer to stay. We obliged

2 contracted St.Kilda players were approached, but neither the Dogs or Cats made a close to ballpark offer to St.Kilda (not the player), so negotiations went nowhere and both players are staying

But...

Because we walked away from negotiating with the Giants WE are the team that is difficult to deal with? And the current narrative is:

"St Kilda will pay a price for this, make no mistake about it. Managers will sit back and take notice of this. This is why this doesn't happen. For all the times we say 'Oh would you walk that deal back?' It's easy for us to say it, it's next to impossible for clubs to do it because you run the risk of every player agent going 'You know what, I don't know if we do a deal with St Kilda because it's not a guarantee'."

Let’s not forget that those two players who decided to stay left millions on the table from other club offers, but it’s us that is over paying and changed the game! I don’t care if we have, but the other offers not taken are hardly irrelevant!

 

[AFaiL]

Back to regular programming.. Am I the only one who isnt thrilled about sending next years 2nd pick for Ryan? Meant to be a good draft, the last uncompromised and its likely to be around ~30 based on our projected output. Naturally this post is rubbish if we finish top 4 but that is unlikely.

 

[March Hare]

We have been copping Flak in the media today, something about Money for nothing and Aleer for free.

Every single campaigner in the media can go fornicate themselves as far as I'm concerned.

Absolute haters, the whole lot of them.

 

[Miha]

Back to regular programming.. Am I the only one who isnt thrilled about sending next years 2nd pick for Ryan? Meant to be a good draft, the last uncompromised and its likely to be around ~30 based on our projected output. Naturally this post is rubbish if we finish top 4 but that is unlikely.

Plenty to play out even into next years trade period. I think we’ll work our way back into the 2026 draft