List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

My issue isn’t that it’s ruthless. It’s that it’s neither ruthless nor sentimental.

It’s issue is that it’s an each way bet that doesn’t achieve either thing

Thankfully nothing serious then

 

[austinnn]

Richo just has zero craic in him doesn’t he

There is a morbid curiosity inside me that wants me to watch the video again, but I just cannot hear that guy's voice anymore.

I would love to know what Demons fans think of Richardson, how he's lasted so long in the role he has there. demondavey Toump Ass Topkent

We had him for SIX years as a head coach. How on earth didn't he get rumbled before then?

For a bloke with no apparent wile, he's certainly a survivor!

 

[austinnn]

Hard to take, not gonna lie

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Richo just has zero craic in him doesn’t he

Couldn’t motivate a fart to leave an arseh*le

 

[phantom13]

Plenty of posters on here would be eating humble pie if they read some of their early posts on the potential of trading Steele. I'm pretty sure even I was convinced at one stage that he'd net a first, but I didn't ridicule anyone thinking otherwise.

But yes, we have some professional flip floppers on here.

Anyway, I think it wasn't a huge miss, I just wish the club could be a bit more transparent. We only just found out that we were still paying a decent sum for Billings and he didn't exactly net us a decent return in a trade. There's reasons for the trade, it all makes sense, just put it out there - brutal as it is at least we won't hear 3 differing accounts from 3 different journos.

Yeh I can’t recall what I said I thought he get us (I probably said a late first) but I always assumed we’d trade him (and Roma to be fair) I just can’t understand the logic of a salary dump trade for a shit pick where you don’t dump the salary.

I’d rather have taken a swap of fourths and had none of his salary OR held out for a better pick and kept some of his salary.

What we ended up doing was neither thing.

 

[phantom13]

Thankfully nothing serious then

Nothing that St.Kilda does or doesn’t do is serious to me. I love footy and the club but if I hung my life on their decisions and success I’d be a pretty miserable campaigner.

Doesn’t preclude me from pointing out their **** ups on a forum for discussion about them though.

 

[L_W_P]

Sharman incredibly underrated by the wider footy community because they all just assume that St.Kilda can’t have nice things

I'm actually pretty excited to watch Sharman & Ryan (and possibly Tauru) play in the F50 together.

Pop the ball up and let them get to work sitting on people's heads for fun!

 

[hayes]

Yup. Too many worry about the U18s champs and where players played in those games and then define them into the AFL. Ah, knackers didn't play in the guts played off half back flank. What people don't consider is that those U18 coaches have their own biases. School, junior club, heck the kid's parents don't whinge about where he is played.

Wilson is a midfield player that we know from evidence can roam forward and kick a goal. Not just the last game of the season. He won't ge constrained just to a wing. I reckon the coaches may have an inkling of that if even I see it.

He should be aiming to be a Max Holmes/Bailey Smith type. Those guys can run too but what a waste it would be for them to be running up and down away from the ball at all times. His contest is the only thing he needs to work on, he’s got everything else.

And yes Ross on radio said guys like Nigel Lappin started as skinny wingers then moved into the midfield which is what they see him doing.

 

[hangdog]

I think the Jack and Liam numbers are now level at St Kilda - four each (Jackson doesnt count) - the days of Darren and Dave are well behind us, and soon the days of Bailey, Darcy, Rory and Kai will be too.

Its the age of Harley, Hugo, Zander, and Jagga babeee

Bring back real man names, like Bruce, Digby and Reg.

 

[MrFoster]

Yup. Too many worry about the U18s champs and where players played in those games and then define them into the AFL. Ah, knackers didn't play in the guts played off half back flank. What people don't consider is that those U18 coaches have their own biases. School, junior club, heck the kid's parents don't whinge about where he is played.

Wilson is a midfield player that we know from evidence can roam forward and kick a goal. Not just the last game of the season. He won't ge constrained just to a wing. I reckon the coaches may have an inkling of that if even I see it.

Think Ross wants Wilson to become our Max Holmes. Can play inside / outside, burst out of the middle and kick a long goal like Naz.

Quite bullish on our youngsters in the midfield now..

1. Already elite in what they do:
- Nas, Hall, Flanders + experienced Macrae

2. Becoming elite:
- Wilson, Philipou, Windhager

3. Good consistent mids
- Boxshall, Garcia

4. Mid depth
- Clark, Dow, Carrol, Brynes (maybe delisted)

If tier 3 and 4 players pushes up, watch out!!

 

[MrFoster]

got to 62 pages behind,back to 42 in about 15 minutes,with trade period over im just going to scroll through now and look for quoted media headlines

happy with trade period
1.pies got older not better with no high picks
2.cats barely got better with just worpel & will go into 2026 with stanley
3.hawks got worse
4.bombers and merrett stuck with each other & they knocked back a pretty good deal
5.kept our f1 and weve got better
6.dogs added nothing,libba closer to the end,bont closer to dropping a level,sanders closer to tassie
7.there is a world where 6 interstate teams play finals & no vic teams have a chance,if we make the 8 im happy,if we dont im happy with that scenario


so only question is why the 2027 picks in?no reason or a reason?tassie have to draft near a whole list,would our 3 future 3rds and 2 future 4ths be handier to them than say their pick 20 or pick 39?giving us a decent pick for picks we likely dont even use?or something else?

on another note i mentioned David(the shark)Norman in a recent post,eerily he passed away within a day or 2 of that post,maybe same day,RIP

edit-it was the same day,october 15-https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1916657/vale-david-norman

End of 2027 is when a lot of the contracts are up I think, they also need to replace the veterans on the list by then, Wood (34 in 2027), Hill (34), Sinclair (33), Howard (32), Macrae (33), Marshall (32), 1 or 2 may play 1 or 2 year more.. Wilkie will probably be the only one left.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Yeh I can’t recall what I said I thought he get us (I probably said a late first) but I always assumed we’d trade him (and Roma to be fair) I just can’t understand the logic of a salary dump trade for a shit pick where you don’t dump the salary.

I’d rather have taken a swap of fourths and had none of his salary OR held out for a better pick and kept some of his salary.

What we ended up doing was neither thing.

Depends how much we are paying, if it’s 150 to 200k then it IS a salary dump and has the same effect.

Going from a stars wage to a first year draftees wage does the same job as if he was clean coming off the books.

Do you really think we are paying him 500k to play for Melbourne the next 2 years? Very doubtful.

 

[bergholt]

Hard to take, not gonna lie

Poor dude, his eyes are dead

 

[SainterinSydney]

Hard to take, not gonna lie

He is with Richo for 5 minutes and is already saying "g'day"

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Steelo will be our only ex player where I’ll watch a few of his new teams games just because he’s playing. And Mooza.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Man, Hawthorn and Geelong absolutely cooked trade period. Both had elite talent in a position of need wanting to come to them (Petracca for Hawthorn, Marshall for Geelong), and both got greedy when another elite name popped up (Merrett, Curnow).

They both then proceeded to faff about, offering unders, or delaying trade offers to create a false sense of urgency in the teams whose players they were trying to pouch. All the while, their arrogance and perceived superiority made it impossible for them to realise that teams were not going to accept unders, and were more than happy to hold their contracted players to their contracts.

Lo and behold, St Kilda and Essendon did not succumb to this pressure, because it wasn't real, and in fact in was on Geelong and Hawthorn to make it happen. Petracca simply chose a different team that was willing to see him as their number one trade priority. And Carlton moved on to dealing with Sydney, who were putting forward a better offer. The end result being that not only did neither team get the player that they started to persue late, they also didn't get the player that they had presumably been working on during the year. Big lol, and pretty much the dictionary definition of hubris.

Compare this to say is and Flanders. We targetted Flanders early. Got him to nominate. And then put up an attractive offer to the team who he had a contract with. The deal was done within days, and we able to get him in the door and move on to less important deals.

Could we have got Flanders for a bit less? Maybe. Perhaps we could have got a second or third rounder coming back with him. But is that enough to risk jeopardising he trade? Hell no. We got our player, and we are better for it.

 

[Teflon]

If Owens can improve his kicking and touch, there's every chance he goes up to Rayner's level. Is already better than Rayner at marking and contest, need to be cleaner and get some composure into his game.

Not sure on speed/agility Raymor is quick and can weave through traffic at pace when on
Mitch to me seems more your straight line runner

 

[saintmike65]

This depends on how you look at the situation. You can either have a former much respected captain finish off his career playing in the VFL on a mega salary or move to club to play out his career in the AFL with an extra year on his contract. Perhaps, just perhaps this wasn’t about StKfc but more so respecting Jack Steele.

A bit of both i suppose ...win/win

 

[Teflon]

On Steele, its been a couple of days, Im still of the same mindset about it.

Im fine with trading him, i can live with it for a shitful 3rd rounder but if were holding his salary (any of it) then its a poor decision.

I get hes probably depth, i understand all the reasons for trading him (noting i was never against it) but if were gonna offload him for a half eaten sanga and a warm fanta then we needed all his salary gone, otherwise id rather we kept him.

Nup
The payoff with Steele was longer term than a pick next year
Of course if he’s on 900 and we’re paying 800 that’s a shit deal in any definition
But if we are paying 200 to shift an ex captain to allow youth to come through and grow a new sustainable younger midfield core that’s smart business
Looking at it and saying we don’t like that pick plus we are prepared to pay nothing ….meaning we’re stuck with an 8-900k player running round VFL would be a disaster
The PR from pole smokers like Damo on “saints disrespect ex captain “ would be bad enough
Sone short term pain for longer payoff is the go …play the long game to get multi year success.

 

[botts]

Any ITKs out there with any idea how Zac and Arie took the news and what their next steps will be?

Zac would have seen it coming. Arie would be gutted

 

[True Believer]

Not sure on speed/agility Raymor is quick and can weave through traffic at pace when on
Mitch to me seems more your straight line runner

Have you seen Mitch make contact with blokes?

Why would he bother weaving? Just go straight through the campaigners!!

 

[stavro#4]

HE CAME TO A MEETING HE DIDN’T WANT TO BE AT (small part of a massive Melbourne article)

Guerra says Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

’s capacity to fall in love with the Melbourne football club in 24 hours proves Steven King

Steven King

Age

47

Ht

201cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

HO

16.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

HO

8.8

5star

’s path ahead is the right one.

St Kilda had told Steele to consider his options as they revamped their midfield but the 2025 captain wanted to stay despite telling the club he would step down from his leadership position.

“Jack’s an amazing story. Captain of St Kilda, All Australian recently. It signifies to us we are on the right track,” Guerra said.
Jack met us at 9am on Tuesday morning. He came to a meeting that if he’s honest he didn’t want to be at. He did it out of a favour to his manager (David Trotter

David Trotter

Age

39

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.9

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

1.4

2star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.2

3star

).
“The pitch that we gave Jack was unbelievable in terms of who we thought he was, where we thought he was at with his footy and how we would transform his game, but importantly, how we would value his leadership, and we painted what the next three years for him was going to be like, and the role that he’s going to play, and the impact that he can have across the whole of the football club.

“It’s probably my proudest day so far as CEO. Seeing the people in that meeting. Steve King, Alan Richardson, (list boss) Tim Lamb, (assistant coach) Nathan Jones. They were all saying Jack, this is your home.

“Jack was wrestling with leaving St Kilda and Max (Gawn) and Jared Rivers spoke to him that afternoon. He came to a medical at 9am Wednesday morning and by midday he spoke to our high performance manager and said do I start following your program or the St Kilda program. By midday he wanted to come to us which was significant. He wants to help us win our next premiership.”
Guerra says Steele’s leadership will be invaluable, just as Mihocek will help Matthew Jefferson and Jacob Van Rooyen with their leading patterns and growth.

“We have Jack (Steele) and Jack (Viney) running through the midfield and the young crop on the outside. Then either Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

or Max Heath through the middle so at point are we short of leadership in there because with Max, Jack and Jack we have strong experience through the middle.”

And this was tucked away in the Oliver part of the article

Guerra confirmed the Demons would pay a large chunk of Oliver’s salary to 2030 while the Saints will pay a much smaller portion of the Steele contract.

 

[SG34]

Absolutely, should be pushing Wood or Hill off the wing this year.
I am hoping year 2 was just for development and he is ready to explode off a wing.

What is his passing ability like? - bullets into F50? Can do?

 

[SG34]

This depends on how you look at the situation. You can either have a former much respected captain finish off his career playing in the VFL on a mega salary or move to club to play out his career in the AFL with an extra year on his contract. Perhaps, just perhaps this wasn’t about StKfc but more so respecting Jack Steele.

Basically, they don’t care about Steele (in this context - not a human to human thing, where no clubs matter, we love each other as Jesus would suggest), and nor should they care. They should care about one thing only, St Kilda getting better and faster. Respect - as those Americans say, ‘ma ass’.

 

[PandaG]

Any news on the head of footy role..?