List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I think theyve adressed the issue they had which was being top heavy with stars and not enough depth and fill but it doesnt guarantee much.

Plus you offset that Cripps is getting older (and nearly going backwards now) Haynes is 34, Hollands who looked promising is gone, McKay might get the yips again and some of the players youve mentioned (Cerra in particular) still look ****ing average.

I think theyve made the right decisions but theyre a long way from knowing what theyve got

I doubt they play finals, but I dont think the loss of talent will be as big a drop off as some predict. Carlton needed to reset their cap and they have the chance to better spread their talent across the list. I disagree re Cerra, he has struggled with injury recently and like Walsh just needs some continuity with his body. Hollands is no big loss and will be more than replaced by Hayward and Ainsworth. Plus every club has aging players it just how they are managed and the talent they have around them. They will have kids coming through to replace the older players.

Max King is no garuantee to play a full season and he also gets the yips. We saw how reliant we are not having him this year, at least next year we will have Marshall to fill in and Caminiti playing forward if required.

 

[PlayerNumber9]

Probably a bit like Membrey, he would be too good to leave out but then Sharman is playing at Sandy if he is in the 22 or Hall doesn't get a run. Sometimes you have to take the safety net away.

Spot on gringo, Membrey is the precedent. If we had kept skunk he would have played every game and we probably wouldn’t have seen Keeler, Heath or Dodson.

The hardest part of list management is cutting mature players so you can expose kids. We all know the kids who will replace Steele in the midfield, but they only improve if given the opportunity to play. They almost certainly push Macrae out next year. This is a good thing.

All that said, it really hurts to let go of a great servant of the club.

 

[PlayerNumber9]

Wait ! Wait!
Steelo said he was prepared to accept all that! And still wanted to stay! What more could a club ask for from a player?

It seems simple now to my peanut brain. Ross wanted him out. That's all.

We are giving him to Melbourne and paying a chunk of his salary, but if Ross wants it, so be it. I'm backing Ross. I can't see five better St Kilda midfielders based on output so far. On potential - sure, the sky is the limit. Why not?

The move was entirely Steele's choice. He was told he would have limited opportunities at St Kilda but Melbourne is offering a key midfield role and an extra year. It is a no-brainer to take the Melbourne offer.

 

[Lightsxo]

One of Dilena’s more interesting comments was how the club has closely observed and is looking to emulate a US sports model of concentrating cash on the elite talent on the list, meaning paying very modest amounts to the role players and depth players.

Will be interesting to see the implications. Will this place us in a stronger position to target big fish?
Will it make it harder for us to recruit? Or retain depth players?

It works in basketball cause there are 5 players on the court at a time and a top 5ish player could conceivably win you a title if the team is built right.

In footy there’s 18 a side on the field and a whole bunch of other variables which make me uncomfortable going for that approach.

Something as simple as rain can nullify the cleanest and tidiest kick that you’re paying a xyz amount of premium for.

 

[CursingFijian]

I'm already tired of the narrative around Steele

Apparently the better thing to do would be to not have an honest conversation with Jack so he could explore options if he chose to.... you just drop him next year and see him potentially finish his career in the VFL

Tired of Ralph with his sly passive aggressive bullshit. Such a punchable face.

Steele’s departure is brutal for sure. But there’s lots of factors at play here.

The continued tweaking of AFL rules means that every player’s impact can rise or fall dramatically.

The last touch rule next year will make transition even faster again, I think.

The extended bench will mean reduced minutes for high rotation players, which means fatigue should be a marginally smaller factor between winning and losing.

Sustained pace out of the middle and on transition is going to become even more important both offensively and defensively.

I think it might be why this years draft class is poorly rated too. They look like a pretty slow bunch comparatively. A few midfielders going to have to reinvent themselves as defensive half backs to eke out a career.

Jack has been a loyal servant to the club. But his strongest capacities are well and truly covered by Macrae. And his lack of pace means he really doesn’t fit RTB’s vision for the midfield.

It’s not the Saints fault if that is where the game is heading.

 

[SaintWrld]

Love Keels, but he's mainly on the list based on potential. This season is probably make or break for him.

I'd be really comfortable letting (the still contracted) Marshall go next year for the same price we were offered this year, which would keep opportunities open for those talls if they are good enough.

Then you look at Aleer, there was no way he was going to be starting 23.... it would've made us a laughing stock.

yeah definitely if he doesn’t fire he might be in trouble, but I have no doubt he will be fine in that regard. I think he’s very harshly judged, statistically he was identical to Jed Walter and Ethan Read from the Gold Coast, top 10 draft picks, all while drawing the best defender. Doesn’t ever get much credit by anyone, coaches, supporters or media. But I’m a big fan of his talent, I know a lot of people aren’t, it’s all opinion based.

Looking forward to the pre season write ups, team selection is going to be interesting, even our defensive set up is up in the air.

 

[phantom13]

I doubt they play finals, but I dont think the loss of talent will be as big a drop off as some predict. Carlton needed to reset their cap and they have the chance to better spread their talent across the list. I disagree re Cerra, he has struggled with injury recently and like Walsh just needs some continuity with his body. Hollands is no big loss and will be more than replaced by Hayward and Ainsworth. Plus every club has aging players it just how they are managed and the talent they have around them. They will have kids coming through to replace the older players.

Max King is no garuantee to play a full season and he also gets the yips. We saw how reliant we are not having him this year, at least next year we will have Marshall to fill in and Caminiti playing forward if required.

They finished 11th with the same number of wins as us and Port and have lost 31 goals from last year, 57 from the year before and 80+ the year before that.

Agree to disagree on Cerra, hes a very vanilla player who hasnt come on nearly as much as theyd have hoped for.

Your point on King is more an argument to my point. No Curnow means they rely on McKay so if hes injured or out of form that forward line is properly ****ed. Hayward is a good addition, Florent is... fine? Smith is a first year kid coming off a knee, Walsh is very good and if fit helps but the rest...

Its effectively a mini rebuild ala what we did post the finals surge of 2020 (or whenever it was) and again, i think theyve adressed the top heavy list but what theyre getting in and have is a guarantee of nothing, they could very quickly wind up perenially in the bottom 6 if it goes wrong.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Think Steele's on about $1M for the next 2 seasons, so considering

1. We shelved more money to Naz, Wilkie and Windhager than what was previously planned
2. We cannot have both Macrae and Steele playing on the same side, yes Steele can play as a half forward, but is he really better than a Higgins and Ryan at that role? Think not.

Would have been better if we also brought in another up & coming mid e.g. Mackenzie, but Hawthorn botched the Merrett deal, so Mackenzie isn't happening. Let's hope he have an underwhelming season next year and come to us at the end of next year, again his talent is clear. Just need to be utilitized and exposed to proper midfield minutes.

Why would we take an underwhelming midfielder?
He needs to show his talent, not underwhelm l would of thought.
If he performs well, then he could come to us when he is out of contract
I did hear a rumour that he may want to come to us at some stage.

 

[gringo2011]

Wait ! Wait!
Steelo said he was prepared to accept all that! And still wanted to stay! What more could a club ask for from a player?

It seems simple now to my peanut brain. Ross wanted him out. That's all.

We are giving him to Melbourne and paying a chunk of his salary, but if Ross wants it, so be it. I'm backing Ross. I can't see five better St Kilda midfielders based on output so far. On potential - sure, the sky is the limit. Why not?

I think Ross explained that he'd not be captain and not guaranteed a spot in the starting line up. Sounds like Melbourne convinced him to move and we helped him get to a club that could play him regular footy.

 

[nikkig98]

So unlike Fox and SEN who have talking heads giving their "gut feel" on the trade period, ABC Sport have sensibly based their analysis on data. I would recommend reading this article, no bias whatsoever, just pure data. I don't agree with some of the calls, but the analysis is sound

Which team 'won' the AFL trade period — and does free agency need a fix?

It was one of the more chaotic AFL trade periods on record as picks and players moved all over the place — but who came out ahead the most?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Do believe Lachlan Voss has been recruited to the VFL sode

We’re allegedly looking at Jackson Voss as a rookie pick up

Lachlan Voss has re-signed with Sandy Zebs l believe.

 

[billings2paddy]

Yeh that’s what his dickhead manager said (same manager as Nas too)

It's ridiculous for AC

 

[gringo2011]

Spare a thought for poor old Dalrymple, who's year long scouting of draftees now basically pans out to picking up our NGA and promoting rookies

View attachment 2459238

He's pretty good at digging in the bin.

 

[St Neil]

His view on free agency compensation is ridiculous. The compensation is one of the few aspects of the entire system that favours poor teams over good teams.

Barrett’s argument is that the room created in the salary cap when a player is lost to free agency should be the only reward.

Not unsurprisingly, nobody is taking any notice.

 

[gringo2011]

Nah these late picks is where he will truly earn his money

We'll have to take one open pool pick and in a draft that doesn't have much depth, the strike rate is extremely low

But boy, if we could land THE one in a draft that everyone has written off, we'll just keep climbing that ladder

I actually think some of the speculative ones might be where some of the better players come from this year. Not much standout talent to me but a few late ones look like they could be guns if they develop right.

 

[St Neil]

On Steele, its been a couple of days, Im still of the same mindset about it.

Im fine with trading him, i can live with it for a shitful 3rd rounder but if were holding his salary (any of it) then its a poor decision.

I get hes probably depth, i understand all the reasons for trading him (noting i was never against it) but if were gonna offload him for a half eaten sanga and a warm fanta then we needed all his salary gone, otherwise id rather we kept him.

I suspect the club will use Steele’s salary to re-sign or extend the contracts of younger players.

That would be smart long term business.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Mitchito is inconsistent?

I reckon he's one player who can be relied on every week to bust his gut. That doesn't always translate to a great game stats & influence on the game wise but let's not forget the role he has been asked to play.

Hopefully he's free to be the half forward wrecking ball in 2026 & not the sole long option down the line.

I reckon Owens consistently starts off a season well, then drops off a bit.
He's ultra combative, so maybe that's the reason.

 

[Sully111]

Steele’s departure is brutal for sure. But there’s lots of factors at play here.

The continued tweaking of AFL rules means that every player’s impact can rise or fall dramatically.

The last touch rule next year will make transition even faster again, I think.

The extended bench will mean reduced minutes for high rotation players, which means fatigue should be a marginally smaller factor between winning and losing.

Sustained pace out of the middle and on transition is going to become even more important both offensively and defensively.

I think it might be why this years draft class is poorly rated too. They look like a pretty slow bunch comparatively. A few midfielders going to have to reinvent themselves as defensive half backs to eke out a career.

Jack has been a loyal servant to the club. But his strongest capacities are well and truly covered by Macrae. And his lack of pace means he really doesn’t fit RTB’s vision for the midfield.

It’s not the Saints fault if that is where the game is heading.

My issue is the backhanded implication that we just pushed him out of the club.

I feel like the club have handled this situation respectfully yet the need for the likes of Ralph and Purple to try to twist everything is putrid.

 

[The_Steadier]

I will say I am loving how salty oppo fans are in refusing to give us credit for this trade period. We've added TDK, Silvagni, Flanders and Ryan for the price of pick 7 in a weak draft and a future second. Whilst keeping RoMa. Setting aside my personal feelings on the Steele trade. Those four players objectively make us hugely better on paper, and yet we've got barely any credit from opposition fans and the media. Must be doing something right.

Foxsports gave us the top mark in the league (along with the suns)

 

[phantom13]

I doubt they play finals, but I dont think the loss of talent will be as big a drop off as some predict. Carlton needed to reset their cap and they have the chance to better spread their talent across the list. I disagree re Cerra, he has struggled with injury recently and like Walsh just needs some continuity with his body. Hollands is no big loss and will be more than replaced by Hayward and Ainsworth. Plus every club has aging players it just how they are managed and the talent they have around them. They will have kids coming through to replace the older players.

Max King is no garuantee to play a full season and he also gets the yips. We saw how reliant we are not having him this year, at least next year we will have Marshall to fill in and Caminiti playing forward if required.

They finished 11th with the same number of wins as us and Port and have lost 31 goals from last year, 57 from the year before and 80+ the year before that.

Agree to disagree on Cerra, hes a very vanilla player who hasnt come on nearly as much as theyd have hoped for.

Your point on King is more an argument to my point. No Curnow means they rely on McKay so if hes injured or out of form that forward line is properly ****ed. Hayward is a good addition, Florent is... fine? Smith is a first year kid coming off a knee, Walsh is very good and if fit helps but the rest...

Its effectively a mini rebuild ala what we did post the finals surge of 2020 (or whenever it was) and again, i think theyve adressed the top heavy list but what theyre getting in and have is a guarantee of nothing, they could very quickly wind up perenially in the bottom 6 if some very unknown quantities dont turn out to be good to excellent.

 

[Diehard Saint]

View attachment 2459397

Really REALLY doesn’t like us, so much so that…

View attachment 2459398

He’ll even pump the dogs up with a story that’s absolutely false to whack us

You’ve got to laugh at him.
He’s such a bitter and twisted old man.

 

[phantom13]

My issue is the backhanded implication that we just pushed him out of the club.

I feel like the club have handled this situation respectfully yet the need for the likes of Ralph and Purple to try to twist everything is putrid.

I think most of it is clickbait (which to be fair i read and chuckled at).

Nearly every ranking or rating has had us in the top 3 for outcome. I think we all accept that we didnt do the PR on the Aleer deal as well as we could have but all the pearly clutching aside everyone seems to be in agreement we did well.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Spot on gringo, Membrey is the precedent. If we had kept skunk he would have played every game and we probably wouldn’t have seen Keeler, Heath or Dodson.

The hardest part of list management is cutting mature players so you can expose kids. We all know the kids who will replace Steele in the midfield, but they only improve if given the opportunity to play. They almost certainly push Macrae out next year. This is a good thing.

All that said, it really hurts to let go of a great servant of the club.

We got Membrey from Sydney for exactly that reason - Adam Goodes decided to play another year hence Sydney decided to let Tim walk. Although its a tough balance to find between playing kids and having sufficient experience around them. You can garuantee if Steele was on 500k per year he would be still on the list. His big contract had become too much to carry given his output hence the trade result.

Barrett is giving it to the club again now over Jack Steele. My god that guy is short sighted. We did exactly what Carlton did with Curnow, Melbourne did with Petracca and Oliver and WCE did with Ryan. Its about reseting your list and moving on big contracts locked in on aging players to clubs who have need for that particularly player.

I had a Richmond supporting mate say to me he felt sorry for Marshall because he didnt get his requested trade yesterday. The media have a lot to answer for in the opinions some supporters form. I dont know how the club address Purples (Barrett's) persistent attacks, but something needs to be done as his constant put downs are damaging our brand!

 

[Diehard Saint]

How very DARE we

FIFY.

 

[St Neil]

One of Dilena’s more interesting comments was how the club has closely observed and is looking to emulate a US sports model of concentrating cash on the elite talent on the list, meaning paying very modest amounts to the role players and depth players.

Will be interesting to see the implications. Will this place us in a stronger position to target big fish?
Will it make it harder for us to recruit? Or retain depth players?

Total opposite to the Geelong model where everyone accepts less to say and most players are paid in the same pay band.