List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[saintmike65]

This highlights the problem with moving on Steele to be tbh. This is still a hopeful starting midfield mix.

Flanders and Nas have still played a lot of their best football at half back and have played 0 games together. Add to that Macrae and Flanders have both had recent injury concerns. And all our back ups to this mix, namely Windhager, Garcia, Pou and Boxshall are all still speculative/injury prone themselves.

We also aren’t improving our list by moving on Steele, we got a future third for him.

The move is to reminiscent of the Membery move from last year for me.

Move on a bloke who still has good footy left in him for nothing because someone should be able to step up and take his place instead of seeing if the kid actually earns it first. Don’t rate the move at all. We’re putting aside our hearts but not even actually gaining anything for it.

Membrey was ok this year but juries out on his potential output next season...Steely has sruggled the past couple of seasons & him being one paced is a worry for his longevity

 

[sauce_head]

I am going to be biased, because I work for the ABC Sport team, but very happy to see the article getting some love, instead of the opiniated dross that is pushed out by Fox and other outlets.

The ABC Sports Editor, James Coventry (my boss), has published a few books that touch on analytics, which I am sure some posters have seen or possibly read.

Yeah great article. I sent it around to a few groups yesterday as well. I’d be interested in knowing some of the formulas behind the objective metrics used.

 

[Kildonan]

Ryan no.3 next to Collard
Boxshall no.9
Flanders no.21
Silvagni no.27 in-between Barrat & Tauru
TDK no.29, next to Dodson
Fincher no.39

TDK = 3

 

[Hayes4PM]

Breaking News: North Melbourne made a late play throwing their hat in the ring for Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

 

[saintmike65]

Give Boxshall the 9

Firstly, 38 is horrific

Secondly, he is the one who I think slots into Steele's role and can carry on his legacy as that tough team-first mid. Makes too much sense IMO

Flanders had 3 at the SUNS so wouldn't be surprised if he holds that

And 15 is already taken by Dow. Gut feel is Silvagni gets 21 next to his new partner Dougal

TDK I've no clue. As a guy on 1.7m surely he needs a low number. Maybe 9 but him replacing Steele is YUCK

Flanders 3 you'd reckon...Hally needs an upgrade!

 

[PlayerNumber9]

How do you know? Steele wanted to stay. He walked the plank, graciously.

Jack only left after saying yes and signing the Melbourne contract. He didn't have to - if he did nothing he would still be at St Kilda. He decided to go.

Admittedly, the choice to stay was probably not very pleasant, but another year on a contract when you can see the end coming is very attractive indeed.

 

[CaptainRisky]

It's hard to pinpoint the best medium defenders because so few teams use them as 1 v 1 players anymore.

Someone like Stewart plays a massive role for Geelong in stopping small/medium forwards from getting the ball by being an elite zone defender. Much the same with other top line guys like Vlastuin and Sicily. Wilkie is probably our most effective defender in terms of shutting down medium forwards just through how good he is at reading the play, which is a problem because he can't do everything.

The problem with Stocker and the reason I think he was our biggest liability in 2025 was his lack of presence in marking contests coupled with the fact he doesn't intercept well. It's an enormous weakness that is only made worse by the fact he doesn't have any offensive weapons like a Bailey Dale/Josh Weddle type to cover his deficiencies. JSOS is the exact player we hope to cover that position.

It should also be noted that Webster was, for a long time, our main go-to for smaller backs and he's now off the list.

If I'm looking around the field I'd have to say our backline is probably our biggest issue.

2026 would look like:

JSOS - Howard - Tauru
Sinclair - Wilkie - ???

Caminiti should come off the bench with 5 spots (or go past Howard) and then take your pick of LOC/Byrnes/Stocker/Hastie/Trav in that last spot.

He did ask who are the best small defenders , not who intercepts the best

Who do we have that could play on Charlie Cameron , Stengle , Rankine ect as it sure isn't JSOS or Tauru , I like Stocker but he is not quick or agile.

 

[TheJackal]

Mackie is a one trick pony and SOS and RTB saw straight through it
Mackie got SOS'd
SOS 1
Mackie -1

100% - I just honestly can't get my head around the arrogance of their supporters. They genuinely think we're all shattered that we didn't get to trade Ro.

I haven't seen one Cats supporter acknowledge that they dropped the ball with both players who they chased. I genuinely just don't understand, how can they see missing Marshall and going in with no rucks as a win for them?

I probably sound like a broken record, I just need someone to actually explain why they can't see it was a huge fail from Mackie.

 

[saintmike65]

At the eagles he is probably the second or third forward you Plan for currently.

He is 5th or 6th for us. You probably don’t plan for him at this point to be honest.

Can only be of value for us.

Low possession high impact..

 

[saintmike65]

Genuinely have no idea why he hates Saints so much. Would have thought even being mates with spud he may have had a little love for them but no. Takes every chance he can whether we’re doing good or bad, to smash us. Tbh most of the media do the same. It’s actual incredibly refreshing to hear someone stick up for us like a Bartel.

James Hird & David King give us some love..

 

[The Punter]

Collingwood conceded the least points this season and they have Maynard who is pure lockdown. Adelaide have Milera. Hawthorn have Hardwick. Second and third in points conceded.

It's an underappreciated role. Stocker ain't perfect, but then again, neither was Webster. Like being a small forward, if you have all the necessary attributes you tend to end up in the midfield.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Breaking News: North Melbourne made a late play throwing their hat in the ring for Charlie Curnow

I bet that campaigner offered them Simpkin as a straight swap lol

 

[SainterinSydney]

He did ask who are the best small defenders , not who intercepts the best

Who do we have that could play on Charlie Cameron , Stengle , Rankine ect as it sure isn't JSOS or Tauru , I like Stocker but he is not quick or agile.

I agree with this. This is the one hole I think we have going into this season. Unless we think LoC and/or Hastie can do it? Or maybe the Voss boy we are looking at.

 

[DougalHoward]

I bet that campaigner offered them Simpkin as a straight swap lol

Future 1st, this years first and whatever they got for Simpkin according to Cal Twomey

 

[SainterinSydney]

Future 1st, this years first and whatever they got for Simpkin according to Cal Twomey

Didn't they trade this year's first to Tigers for Whitlock the Norf?

 

[Silkie]

I bet that campaigner offered them Simpkin as a straight swap lol

It's worse than that, apparently two firsts and "whatever collateral they got for Simpkin from Collingwood". Speaking of unserious clubs...

 

[DougalHoward]

Didn't they trade this year's first to Tigers for Whitlock the Norf?

you're right it was 2026 and 2027 firsts

 

[saintmike65]

From memory, Rayner took a while to become that midfield bull that he did. Owens is young and I'm happy to give him time.

Mitch has been in the system for 4 years now, he's done his apprenticeship...time is now!

 

[thekizzler]

I am yet to see any corroboration of the fact that we are paying part of Steele's wage next year.....

Tom Morris said we weren't.

Mitch Cleary said we were.

Morris is more mud at the moment so people are choosing to believe Cleary.

 

[Joffaboy]

Why is that Marshall thread still opened. People are having psychotic episodes and cultists like devotions to people at both clubs.
All the Geelong cultists on the forum all want to kiss Mackie's arse even though he couldn't get one deal done except for a FA.
Quite weird decent in madness over there.

 

[Captain Paddy]

I mean **** Barret that weasel headed campaigner can jog on BUT its worth noting that every player on that list bar Oliver (whos off field issues would make Chopper Read blush) netted more return than Steele did so i do think some degree of criticism is probably valid (noting that criticism wouldnt account for whatever discussion was had between Jack and the club).

The contract thing is the issue to me, if were still covering any of his salary then taking such a shit return isnt the go IMO.

In fairness I think we ended up doing the move to help Steele. It wasn’t about extracting everything we could for him.. it was about letting a guy that gave us incredible service the opportunity to go elsewhere to play high level footy and extend his career, not potentially play twos or sit at half forward etc

 

[SG34]

I am yet to see any corroboration of the fact that we are paying part of Steele's wage next year.....

And you might not.
Saying you don’t see evidence is good rhetoric, but knowing ‘why would we see evidence’ is grounded ..
As I said, I’m only going from what I’ve heard..Sam Edmund this morning for instance. And he is just one of a long line.

 

[phantom13]

Fox footy's Saints best 23

Hill on a H.B.F?. we've tried that before, without success.

Sharman not in the team
I suppose if King & Marshall were killing it?
then Owens & Sharman would be competing for the 3rd tall spot.

No Henry in the team either but l suppose that's understandable given the year he has just had.
But would replace him with Hill if he gets back to his best.

To be fair Ross takes the piss when he announces line ups. Camma was listed at FF a stack last year when he played FB all year. FF, FB and Ruck are really the only three that matter that much, everything else is basically a tall, small or medium everything.

Meh I don't see it, I think defences zone around, and they're at the mercy of the midfield stopping ball coming in. If the ball is coming in well and the zone is failing then a small will probably kick some goals, but even having a top notch small back isn't going to stop that.

Anyway to the original question - who do you think are the best ones?

Maynard and Quaynor probably
Hardwick
Uwland and Wil Powell are pretty good for GC
Hinge
Luke Ryan maybe

I really can't come up with many.

Ryan and Quaynor are not great defensively especially when the ball hits the deck.

DBJ at port was pretty handy but plays more midfield now. Starcevich is a quality everything defender, McVie was handy and Idun (even though hes like 6'3") id add in.

 

[Saints TV]

Tom Morris said we weren't.

Mitch Cleary said we were.

Morris is more mud at the moment so people are choosing to believe Cleary.

If it helps, I hit up Xander McGuire and his understanding was that we were paying some.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Open question to the forum:

Who is the best mid/small defender in the league, whose role mainly is primarily to play on damaging small forwards?

Stocker isn’t a unicorn player that’s for sure, but I think he’s pretty solid cover in the position.

Ben Paton back in the day looked really good in that role, I seem to remember a stretch of games where he was pocketing players like Toby Greene, and then got injured by Roughead and career over.

Jimmy Webster was fairly underrated in a position that doesn’t get plaudits, had a good mix of agility and toughness.

IMO our ideal backline has:

• A fullback for big forwards (e.g. Howard/Hammer)
• Two versatile intercepting defenders (e.g. Wilkie/JSOS)
• Two attacking half back flanks (e.g. Sinclair, Hastie)
• And a small lockdown defender (e.g. Stocker, O’Connell?)

So basically a full back tall for the best opposing tall and a full back small for the best opposing small. Then four intercepting and rebounding players who make up the rest of the defensive effort.

Reckon LOC is going to give small forward nightmares for years