List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[PJays]

The money is irrelevant- every club has to spend a minimum of the cap every year.

If this was a 1 year deal being offered to TDK, your point would be valid.

But it's not..... it's 7.

Even if heavily front loaded, that means the next 2 or 3 years of front loading.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I know were the Saints and we like to be nice, but what club CEO actively dissuades young talent from coming across? It's not like we have a plethora of good players trying to come to us

The AFL gave him a stack more money to be an “ambassador” of course, and I’m not sure we could, or wanted to, pay the same at the time.

Ah, I see I’ve been Sandra Sully’d at least three times on this

 

[stavro#4]

If this was a 1 year deal being offered to TDK, your point would be valid.

But it's not..... it's 7.

Even if heavily front loaded, that means the next 2 or 3 years of front loading.

Your point is only valid if we hit salary cap distress.

For us to hit salary cap distress, it means our list has become a contender worthy of paying a number of players very good contracts.

Let’s deal with the hypothetical issue, IF it ever becomes one.

The FACT of the matter is that President and coach assured the fanbase that we have money to re-sign our existing list and bring in whoever we want.

 

[PJays]

Your point is only valid if we hit salary cap distress.

My broader point is that over the next few years, the decision to sign TDK has wider ramifications.

You're talking as if we've got the money, it must go to someone, might as well be this person who's available.

It's a much bigger discussion than that.

The FACT of the matter is that President and coach assured the fanbase that we have money to re-sign our existing list and bring in whoever we want.

Yes.

But not multiple players.

We sign TDK, it impacts our ability to sign others in coming years.

How do you know who'll be available at the end of 2026 or 2027? You don't. Neither do I.

TDK is not the type of player that premiership teams must have.

Rucks aren't crucial in AFL like good mids or key backs are.

 

[stavro#4]

My broader point is that over the next few years, the decision to sign TDK has wider ramifications.

You're talking as if we've got the money, it must go to someone, might as well be this person who's available.

It's a much bigger discussion than that.


Yes.

But not multiple players.

We sign TDK, it impacts our ability to sign others in coming years.

How do you know who'll be available at the end of 2026 or 2027? You don't. Neither do I.

TDK is not the type of player that premiership teams must have.

Rucks aren't crucial in AFL like good mids or key backs are.

Who is available is largely irrelevant for the St. Kilda FC today.

Who wants to come is the only
Question that matters. You can pretend someone like Harley Reid wants to come. But I bet even if we offered him 14m/7 years that he would still end up wherever he was going to end up anyway.

The only thing that changes that narrative is success. So if we have success and TDK on his big deal is part of the side - then his recruitment has been a success.

You are getting bent out of shape based on hypotheticals that all these players want to come. Fact is that we have already seen the likes of Finn Callaghan - Shit themselves at the thought of being the man on the mega deal with a fan base starved of success.

 

[PJays]

The only thing that changes that narrative is success. So if we have success and TDK on his big deal is part of the side - then his recruitment has been a success.

What do you define as success?

Sure, if TDK becomes the AA ruck you're convinced he'll become, and if King gets healthy and NWM continues his trajectory, we could easily play finals next year. Maybe win a final like 2020 when we had Ryder and Marshall together.

But we're not winning a flag with this midfield.

And we'll likely need another good key back (Steven May, Harris Andrews, Darcy Moore, etc).

So where do they come from?

• The existing list- Develop and improve
• Draft and develop
• Trade
• FA

Signing King, NWM and TDK to massive long-term deals limits our ability to pull 2 of those 4 levers.

You can get a ruck later. From anywhere. Look at some recent rucks in grand final teams: Scott Lycett, Nathan Vardy, Rhys Stanley, Tom Hickey, Mason Cox, Darcy Fort, 34 year old Stefan Martin, 24 year old Tim English, etc etc etc.

You don't need a good ruck. You do need good mids and key backs.

 

[Joffaboy]

If this was a 1 year deal being offered to TDK, your point would be valid.

But it's not..... it's 7.

Even if heavily front loaded, that means the next 2 or 3 years of front loading.

So what. Who do we spend it on who is an FA and won't cost capital? Heath, Clark and Jones?

 

[Joffaboy]

What do you define as success?

Sure, if TDK becomes the AA ruck you're convinced he'll become, and if King gets healthy and NWM continues his trajectory, we could easily play finals next year. Maybe win a final like 2020 when we had Ryder and Marshall together.

But we're not winning a flag with this midfield.

And we'll likely need another good key back (Steven May, Harris Andrews, Darcy Moore, etc).

So where do they come from?

• The existing list- Develop and improve
• Draft and develop
• Trade
• FA

Signing King, NWM and TDK to massive long-term deals limits our ability to pull 2 of those 4 levers.

You can get a ruck later. From anywhere. Look at some recent rucks in grand final teams: Scott Lycett, Nathan Vardy, Rhys Stanley, Tom Hickey, Mason Cox, Darcy Fort, 34 year old Stefan Martin, 24 year old Tim English, etc etc etc.

You don't need a good ruck. You do need good mids and key backs.

Name the midfielders, you think are coming to us.
You talk in hypotheticals with zero solutions.
We can only get who will say yes to us. Will Reid? Bont? Didn't we try for Kelky, Finn Callaghan, LDU.
Names that are available and are willing to come to us please or your argument is moot.

 

[stavro#4]

What do you define as success?

Sure, if TDK becomes the AA ruck you're convinced he'll become, and if King gets healthy and NWM continues his trajectory, we could easily play finals next year. Maybe win a final like 2020 when we had Ryder and Marshall together.

But we're not winning a flag with this midfield.

And we'll likely need another good key back (Steven May, Harris Andrews, Darcy Moore, etc).

So where do they come from?

• The existing list- Develop and improve
• Draft and develop
• Trade
• FA

Signing King, NWM and TDK to massive long-term deals limits our ability to pull 2 of those 4 levers.

You can get a ruck later. From anywhere. Look at some recent rucks in grand final teams: Scott Lycett, Nathan Vardy, Rhys Stanley, Tom Hickey, Mason Cox, Darcy Fort, 34 year old Stefan Martin, 24 year old Tim English, etc etc etc.

You don't need a good ruck. You do need good mids and key backs.

Mate we need good players everywhere.

If we don’t land TDK. It means we are without a good footballer and your third best player is still a 30 year old Marshall that you need to start thinking about how do we replace him and improve.

It also means that you have your first round pick as the only avenue left to get better.

You are still better off landing TDK and then deciding if you want to trade Marshall (or if he wants to be traded) and getting further draft assets or if you are confident of improving with both.

 

[PJays]

Name the midfielders, you think are coming to us.
You talk in hypotheticals with zero solutions.

12 months ago did you know TDK would soon be considering the Saints?

Names that are available and are willing to come to us please or your argument is moot.

All this proves is you're not following the argument.

 

[PJays]

Mate we need good players everywhere.

If we don’t land TDK. It means we are without a good footballer and your third best player is still a 30 year old Marshall that you need to start thinking about how do we replace him and improve.

We've got plenty of good players: NWM, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, King (when healthy), Higgins. You could throw Macrae in there- been very good at times this year.

It also means that you have your first round pick as the only avenue left to get better.

Not true.

Improvement from within current list

Trade (who knows which players will request a trade to St Kilda over the next few months? Who's the next Jack Steele, Tim Membrey, Jack Higgins, etc)

FA.

You are still better off landing TDK

Landing him for a reasonable price, maybe. But it's not.

Do you really want a guy who's only coming for money anyway?

Like, moneys always a factor. But if St Kilda was offering $8.5 million, he would've already re-signed with Carlton for $7.5 million. Do you want a guy who's only considering it for obscene money that blows everyone else out, and otherwise wouldn't be interested? Is that good for culture? Is that the guy you want?

 

[gubby88]

Fyfe - Lets not draft anyone from interstate ? He might of stayed and won us a flag you're guessing

Parker- Sydney /Geelong Here is an idea get to those levels

Bont - Billings a mistake

Trac over McCrartin was just dumb. nothing considered about that

Smith - You don't know that you're guessing

Serong was a dumb mistake trading our 1st rounder out

you have never rated one list manager as long as I have been on BF....just wondering when you're going to march down to the club and give them some expertise? I mean you seem close enough to be able to tell SOS to shove it and be better apparently

 

[AirWinmar]

He advised Kings father for Ben to resign after the AFL gave Ben 150k a season extra outside the SC for 'Ambassador Money'.
Cool story bro but a bit light on for facts.

Yeah I know he got paid extra outside the cap for ambassador money, but why would our ceo advise his father he should resign as a result? Do you thing the ceo of gws told Finns dad, he should just go to the Saints coz we're offering way more than what gws can? As a Saints employee he should be trying to convince players to come to us no?

FYI not light on for facts, I didnt get into the detail about why he advised him or his family he should stay with gc. Doesn't really matter why. Fact if the matter is, he advised him to resign with a competitor club

 

[littlecreatures]

We've got plenty of good players: NWM, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, King (when healthy), Higgins. You could throw Macrae in there- been very good at times this year.


Not true.

Improvement from within current list

Trade (who knows which players will request a trade to St Kilda over the next few months? Who's the next Jack Steele, Tim Membrey, Jack Higgins, etc)

FA.


Landing him for a reasonable price, maybe. But it's not.

Do you really want a guy who's only coming for money anyway?

Like, moneys always a factor. But if St Kilda was offering $8.5 million, he would've already re-signed with Carlton for $7.5 million. Do you want a guy who's only considering it for obscene money that blows everyone else out, and otherwise wouldn't be interested? Is that good for culture? Is that the guy you want?

What’s your solution and course of action to fill the cap next year? Need tangibles mate.

 

[TheJackal]

The issue with offering TDK $1.7m for 7 seasons is that it's potential to cause unrest within the playing group.

Windy has apparently been offered unders for his contract and is unhappy. It's easy to say who cares its only Windy he hasnt done anything to deserve good money. But he's well liked amongst the kids coming through, we need to look after our own as well as attract talent.

Lets not forget, Windy lives with Nas. Talk of brothers living together, it's very easy for a few unsettled people to affect others and Nas seems somewhat vulnerable in that area.

List management should be a very delicate build, we absolutely could St Kilda this up.

 

[stavro#4]

We've got plenty of good players: NWM, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, King (when healthy), Higgins. You could throw Macrae in there- been very good at times this year.


Not true.

Improvement from within current list

Trade (who knows which players will request a trade to St Kilda over the next few months? Who's the next Jack Steele, Tim Membrey, Jack Higgins, etc)

FA.


Landing him for a reasonable price, maybe. But it's not.

Do you really want a guy who's only coming for money anyway?

Like, moneys always a factor. But if St Kilda was offering $8.5 million, he would've already re-signed with Carlton for $7.5 million. Do you want a guy who's only considering it for obscene money that blows everyone else out, and otherwise wouldn't be interested? Is that good for culture? Is that the guy you want?

We don’t have enough good players. That’s obvious. We don’t have enough superstar level players that’s clear.

TDK fills column 1 and he may fill column 2. Who knows. Blues fans think he is on his way.

Regarding money. Doesn’t bother me. we are at the ass end of the ladder. What’s the driver to join the saints if it isn’t considerably overs financially?

I’ll tell you the only answer is that there isn’t.

You can talk up trade, but it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul in that it takes way draft assets we still need.
Free agency retains our draft hand.

So again, your argument isn’t making us better it’s a bunch of hypotheticals that someone else might come. Might be better. Might cost less. Might maybe hopefully etc etc

Someone does seemingly want to come and Is a very good footballer and he might be a gun.

Let’s sign him.

 

[stavro#4]

The issue with offering TDK $1.7m for 7 seasons is that it's potential to cause unrest within the playing group.

Windy has apparently been offered unders for his contract and is unhappy. It's easy to say who cares its only Windy he hasnt done anything to deserve good money. But he's well liked amongst the kids coming through, we need to look after our own as well as attract talent.

Lets not forget, Windy lives with Nas. Talk of brothers living together, it's very easy for a few unsettled people to affect others and Nas seems somewhat vulnerable in that area.

List management should be a very delicate build, we absolutely could St Kilda this up.

Windy. Another great white hope on the stkilda board.

What has he done to warrant a bigger contract?

 

[PJays]

What’s your solution and course of action to fill the cap next year? Need tangibles mate.

NWM. He'll need big money. Front load it. I'd rather pay him $2mil next year than TDK. Some bloke from Carlton.

Front load all new contracts.

Search for midfielders to trade in. There's 18 teams, and 100+ midfielders in the AFL who are at starting 23 level or thereabouts.

Look at 2nd, 3rd year players who are trying to break into the 23 at their club. Like Jack Steele was in 2014.

Try to offer 2nd Rd picks only, keep 1st rders.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Windy. Another great white hope on the stkilda board.

What has he done to warrant a bigger contract?

I agree with this. He has potential, but hasn't shown enough yet to warrant a fat contract.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

NWM. He'll need big money. Front load it. I'd rather pay him $2mil next year than TDK.

Front load all new contracts.

Search for midfielders to trade in. There's 18 teams, and 100+ midfielders in the AFL who are at starting 23 level or thereabouts.

Look at 2nd, 3rd year players who are trying to break into the 23 at their club. Like Jack Steele was in 2014.

Try to offer 2nd Rd picks only, keep 1st rders.

You keep talking as if it can only be one or the other. It’s been clearly stated there is enough money for Nas, TDK and other decent acquisitions.

The Henny Penny fretting is unbecoming.

 

[PJays]

You keep talking as if it can only be one or the other. It’s been clearly stated there is enough money for Nas, TDK and other decent acquisitions.

I wish AFL contracts were public like some other sports.

Fans could have more educated, less speculative discussions.

Edit: And, source and direct quote on this one please

 

[littlecreatures]

NWM. He'll need big money. Front load it. I'd rather pay him $2mil next year than TDK.

Front load all new contracts.

Search for midfielders to trade in. There's 18 teams, and 100+ midfielders in the AFL who are at starting 23 level or thereabouts.

Look at 2nd, 3rd year players who are trying to break into the 23 at their club. Like Jack Steele was in 2014.

Try to offer 2nd Rd picks only, keep 1st rders.

Nas will likely sign on for around 1.2m for wherever he’s going, so that’s just reckless list management when you can get talent through the door.

We’ve tried midfielders to no avail (Merret, LDU, Mcluggage, Callaghan, etc) so that doesn’t appear to be a viable option.

Our out of contract players remaining at end of year. Who specifically are you spending 1.7m on?

• Mclennan
• Schoenmaker
• Howard
• Boyd
• Keeler
• Webster
• O’Connell
• Stocker
• Windhager
• Hall
• Heath
• Nas (already negotiating new contract subject to agreement)
• Byrnes
• Cordy
• Jones

 

[PJays]

Nas will likely sign on for around 1.2m for wherever he’s going, so that’s just reckless list management when you can get talent through the door.

Wait, so you want to offer Nas $1.2mil, and you're happy offering $2mil to some Carlton guy who's a lesser prospect?

And you're not worried about club culture? What other players might think of this?

Not worried about losing Nas to Port/Adelaide? Unlike TDK he has multiple other suitors... an extra $300k would be a sweetener.

 

[Joffaboy]

12 months ago did you know TDK would soon be considering the Saints?

All this proves is you're not following the argument.

You can't answer with a solution so you have no argument.
All you have is who you DON'T want to get but nothing with who you do want to get.
Moot and irrelevant.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeah I know he got paid extra outside the cap for ambassador money, but why would our ceo advise his father he should resign as a result? Do you thing the ceo of gws told Finns dad, he should just go to the Saints coz we're offering way more than what gws can? As a Saints employee he should be trying to convince players to come to us no?

FYI not light on for facts, I didnt get into the detail about why he advised him or his family he should stay with gc. Doesn't really matter why. Fact if the matter is, he advised him to resign with a competitor club

It's simple, ar the time it was 600k extra for a 20 year old added to the 550k he was getting inside the cap.
$700k for 4 years for a 20 year old in 2020 was nothing he would get anywhere else.
Kings dad rang him and Lethlean said exactly the above. That's why.