List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[gringo2011]

If our next flag is coming off the back of the phillipou, owens, wilson, nas etc core- that's 4-5 years from now.

Ditching marshall for TDK (despite being a heart and soul, popular match winner now etc) is the right move.

The only mistake would be not being ruthless and extracting something for marshall that will be useful in 4-5 years time (a late first rounder or something)

I reckon if we miss a challenge with the current older guys, we might be struggling to hold on to the younger guys like Phillipou who are driven. If we are looking at that time frame we'd almost be better to keep Marshall and develop Dodson and draft super hard I the meantime. Find a few bargain bin top ups.

Also once the older guys step out we will also lose the bulk of our best players so we need to replace them and make up ground with players coming in behind them.

 

[gringo2011]

I think because it would have been a high pick and the success of Hall and Sharman has footy fans looking for excitement and hope. Even Max Heath is still on the list from the Sharman mid season draft. It’s a free hit, so it’s not like it’s going to be a Hannebery style financial disaster if the draftee doesn’t work out.

Drafts are all we get to be excited about. We don't get success to fall back on.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think because it would have been a high pick and the success of Hall and Sharman has footy fans looking for excitement and hope. Even Max Heath is still on the list from the Sharman mid season draft. It’s a free hit, so it’s not like it’s going to be a Hannebery style financial disaster if the draftee doesn’t work out.

You can’t just do it bc you want to.
The player actually has to have an injury so severe that he will not play again this season. They obviously don’t believe that is the case with Cordy.

 

[MightySaintas]

Their system seems so well drilled and really selfless. No-one is going for personal glory, they look for teammates and block and harass for each other. Geelong similar. They just know what they are meant to do and can bring in a new player and expect them to know how to play it.

Having players work into space for the kicker helps too. We seem to stand still and pressure the ball carrier into mistakes.

No surprise really given they are two of the oldest and most experienced lists. Lots of preseasons and footy nous with coaches at the top of their games.

 

[Minga]

Taking away TDKs salary.

If someone said to me would I trade marshall for TDK and late first rounder/ early 2nd, I would absolutely jump at it.

It's a net postive x 2, better ruckman, younger and then have the chance of drafting another good kid.

In regards to the contact, I have been told nearly 400k is outside of the salary cap and is a ASA

Yep, gotta kill your darlings. People won’t like it but it’s good list management (in concept).

If the system is against you, as it is, you’ve gotta take bigger risks in a list management space. It’s all about timing and risks. You see it all the time in team sports, like the NBA, if you don’t take the list management risks, you may tread water but you also don’t give yourself the chance of shooting ahead of the pack. If the system is against you, you have even less of a chance.

Bringing in the right core of players at the right age. Killing your darlings even when that is a player of the calibre of Marshall both on and off the field.

It’s just footy, club comes first, no hard feelings. The fans may hate it but ****, they complain about everything, because they (I) are anxious and obsessive. But you gotta tack sometimes if you wanna go forward, treading water is death.

Saying we did land TDK, I wouldn’t be disappointed if we kept Marshall, I think they could work well together. But I’d take the FRDP & TDK, if it was an option. Just like I also wanted the FRDP for Gresham and for Battle.

Now, what Marshall would actually command in a trade is another thing altogether, hypothetically tho, this would be an opportune moment to cut, and actually start doubling down on the future. We are building a compelling list where we are starting to see an identity, the kids have talent, the right physical attributes, mongrel. Once they start hitting 75+ games, the slow tide comes. Keep adding young or age appropriate assets, what’s the other way for a club like ours in the current climate?

If trading Marshall destroys the fabric of the club then we aren’t much of a club to begin with. Kill your darlings or risk killing yourself, make the tough decisions now for the long term sustainability. I don’t envy the list manager’s job, but one worth their salt knows when to cut against the stream.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, gotta kill your darlings. People won’t like it but it’s good list management (in concept).

If the system is against you, as it is, you’ve gotta take bigger risks in a list management space. It’s all about timing and risks. You see it all the time in team sports, like the NBA, if you don’t take the list management risks, you may tread water but you also don’t give yourself the chance of shooting ahead of the pack. If the system is against you, you have even less of a chance.

Bringing in the right core of players at the right age. Killing your darlings even when that is a player of the calibre of Marshall both on and off the field.

It’s just footy, club comes first, no hard feelings. The fans may hate it but ****, they complain about everything, because they (I) are anxious and obsessive. But you gotta tack sometimes if you wanna go forward, treading water is death.

Saying we did land TDK, I wouldn’t be disappointed if we kept Marshall, I think they could work well together. But I’d take the FRDP & TDK, if it was an option. Just like I also wanted the FRDP for Gresham and for Battle.

Now, what Marshall would actually command in a trade is another thing altogether, hypothetically tho, this would be an opportune moment to cut, and actually start doubling down on the future. We are building a compelling list where we are starting to see an identity, the kids have talent, the right physical attributes, mongrel. Once they start hitting 75+ games, the slow tide comes. Keep adding young or age appropriate assets, what’s the other way for a club like ours in the current climate?

If trading Marshall destroys the fabric of the club then we aren’t much of a club to begin with. Kill your darlings or risk killing yourself, make the tough decisions now for the long term sustainability. I don’t envy the list manager’s job, but one worth their salt knows when to cut against the stream.

Yet clubs like Collingwood have done a bulk of list building on the cheap not going for optics. To me losing Marshall who up until this year has been a match winner and one of our few top shelf players for a guy who is promising but not elite is a dangerously arrogant move. If it backfires it looks terrible.

To me TDK is a poor kick, suffers from a similar issue to Marshall in that he can ruck but his real skill is dump kicking out of the ruck. Both my brother and brother in law are both Blues supporters and they both clam that Carlton usually play better when TDK isn't rucking. His dump kicks frustrate them as much as ours piss us off.

Taking him and Bergman is bringing in two below average ball users into an already messy side at maximum cost. Aleer is also a poor kick.

I'm not totally against TDK but they want to be very sure that he's going to be the best player in the AFL or at least the best ruck in the game to justify being the best paid player in history.

 

[PJays]

I'm not totally against TDK but they want to be very sure that he's going to be the best player in the AFL or at least the best ruck in the game to justify being the best paid player in history.

Gringo, haven't you worked it out yet, it's all about the vibes

There's nothing to actually demonstrate TDK's this incoming superstar. You just gotta feel it

Tom "Vibes" De Koning aka VDK.

 

[Saintsydney]

Hardly an outrageous prediction but TDK to Saints, Marshall to Geelong.

Bookmark it.

I'm hoping we can go all in on DK's, take the T from Carlton and swap the other one for Marshall with Geelong to get our backline sorted as well - would assume Geelong will need something else coming back their way for that

 

[Saints43]

Yet clubs like Collingwood have done a bulk of list building on the cheap not going for optics. To me losing Marshall who up until this year has been a match winner and one of our few top shelf players for a guy who is promising but not elite is a dangerously arrogant move. If it backfires it looks terrible.

To me TDK is a poor kick, suffers from a similar issue to Marshall in that he can ruck but his real skill is dump kicking out of the ruck. Both my brother and brother in law are both Blues supporters and they both clam that Carlton usually play better when TDK isn't rucking. His dump kicks frustrate them as much as ours piss us off.

Taking him and Bergman is bringing in two below average ball users into an already messy side at maximum cost. Aleer is also a poor kick.

I'm not totally against TDK but they want to be very sure that he's going to be the best player in the AFL or at least the best ruck in the game to justify being the best paid player in history.

I don't see why we'd be letting RoMa go if TDK turns up. The idea of bringing TDK is to have more good players, isn't it?
Not one in, one out.

 

[Saints43]

Gringo, haven't you worked it out yet, it's all about the vibes

There's nothing to actually demonstrate TDK's this incoming superstar. You just gotta feel it

Tom "Vibes" De Koning aka VDK.

AFL coaches rate TDK a better player than Walsh, Cripps, Weitering, Curnow...

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Tom "Vibes" De Koning aka VDK.

Reminds me of this girl from high school, her name was Kate.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

“Kill the Darlings”.

We’ll never have better access to absolute top draft talent than over the next 3 years. Time to be bold

 

[PJays]

View attachment 2330105

AFL coaches rate TDK a better player than Walsh, Cripps, Weitering, Curnow...

So coaches think he's the 2nd best player in a team who's currently 12th, with over 80% of his votes coming in losing games?

Sign him up pronto.

$12.5 million's clearly not enough.

 

[saintbill]

Hardly an outrageous prediction but TDK to Saints, Marshall to Geelong.

Bookmark it.

Give us SDK back, and we will pay half of Marshalls salary.

 

[PJays]

Its a sunny Saturday but I'm in a pessimistic mood today

I've got a feeling the next 6 months will be epic for Saints fans

- Our best young player walks out the door

- We find a successor to Brad Hill as most overpaid player in the game, to the great excitement of Saints fans

- Membrey wins a flag with Collingwood

- Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

returns from his knee injury, and after 2 weeks, does another injury. Announced as returning early in pre-season, only to have a "setback". Timeline TBA.

- Saints fight through injuries and valiantly end up finishing a respectful 13th, after academies pushing our 1st round pick outside top 10 in a weaker draft. Saints draft a forward flanker from Adelaide, despite pundits suggesting better midfield options.

- Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

30

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

traded for a packet of weet-bix and a pair of AFL Grand Final tickets. Allowing Ross and SOS to watch him play for Geelong against Membrey's Pies in 2026, as Collingwood aim for 3 from 4.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Its a sunny Saturday but I'm in a pessimistic mood today

I've got a feeling the next 6 months will be epic for Saints fans

- Our best young player walks out the door

- We find a successor to Brad Hill as most overpaid player in the game, to the great excitement of Saints fans

- Membrey wins a flag with Collingwood

- Max King returns from his knee injury, and after 2 weeks, does another injury. Announced as returning early in pre-season, only to have a "setback". Timeline TBA.

- Saints fight through injuries and valiantly end up finishing a respectful 13th, after academies pushing our 1st round pick outside top 10 in a weaker draft. Saints draft a forward flanker from Adelaide, despite pundits suggesting better midfield options.

- Rowan Marshall traded for a packet of weet-bix and a pair of AFL Grand Final tickets. Allowing Ross and SOS to watch him play for Geelong against Membrey's Pies in 2026, as Collingwood aim for 3 from 4.

Sheesh, more posts like this on a dark rainy afternoon and I'll be seeking out the ignore button

 

[Diehard Saint]

Dodson is the lad who will develop into a top ruckman. I can’t see Heath making it.

So, another 3/4-ish years development for him. That’s why we néed TDK now.

Not sure we can rely on Marshall being as good and injury free as he gets older. Happy to keep him in the meantime though. As gringo2011 said - heart and soul. Don’t want another situation like when McEvoy was traded.

Hopefully the league goes to 5 on bench next year and no sub - that would work well for us to play both.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Gringo, haven't you worked it out yet, it's all about the vibes

There's nothing to actually demonstrate TDK's this incoming superstar. You just gotta feel it

Tom "Vibes" De Koning aka VDK.

Except of course, watching him play.

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

Its a sunny Saturday but I'm in a pessimistic mood today

I've got a feeling the next 6 months will be epic for Saints fans

- Our best young player walks out the door

- We find a successor to Brad Hill as most overpaid player in the game, to the great excitement of Saints fans

- Membrey wins a flag with Collingwood

- Max King returns from his knee injury, and after 2 weeks, does another injury. Announced as returning early in pre-season, only to have a "setback". Timeline TBA.

- Saints fight through injuries and valiantly end up finishing a respectful 13th, after academies pushing our 1st round pick outside top 10 in a weaker draft. Saints draft a forward flanker from Adelaide, despite pundits suggesting better midfield options.

- Rowan Marshall traded for a packet of weet-bix and a pair of AFL Grand Final tickets. Allowing Ross and SOS to watch him play for Geelong against Membrey's Pies in 2026, as Collingwood aim for 3 from 4.

Saints aren’t miserable, some supporters are. Why don’t you save the pain and stop supporting them, and follow chess or something. I’m sure your life will be more enjoyable

 

[saintbill]

Watching Pies players who just consistently hit the target I’m absolutely convinced - can you kick has to be our no 1 target criteria
Houston Daicos Pendles Sidebottom Lipinski ….they just hit targets …
Forget the high priced hacks …

If Hastie was at the Cats he would already be 5kg heavier and on track to be a gun. He is an elite user, we just have painfully slow development compared to other teams.

Interstingly, father in law was around last night and we were chatting footy. He was a Cats board member for 10+ years not that long ago. He is absolutely astounded by Ross's claim we have 16 required hours at the club a week.

Cats premiership ship years was double this. Players demanded a level of excellence from each other. We are not a serious football club if blokes are legit spending 16 hours at week at work which includes tactical reviews.

It's absolutely baffling to me. Maybe our skills suck, because wtf can u actually achieve in 16 hours a week?

 

[Sully111]

Its a sunny Saturday but I'm in a pessimistic mood today

I've got a feeling the next 6 months will be epic for Saints fans

- Our best young player walks out the door

- We find a successor to Brad Hill as most overpaid player in the game, to the great excitement of Saints fans

- Membrey wins a flag with Collingwood

- Max King returns from his knee injury, and after 2 weeks, does another injury. Announced as returning early in pre-season, only to have a "setback". Timeline TBA.

- Saints fight through injuries and valiantly end up finishing a respectful 13th, after academies pushing our 1st round pick outside top 10 in a weaker draft. Saints draft a forward flanker from Adelaide, despite pundits suggesting better midfield options.

- Rowan Marshall traded for a packet of weet-bix and a pair of AFL Grand Final tickets. Allowing Ross and SOS to watch him play for Geelong against Membrey's Pies in 2026, as Collingwood aim for 3 from 4.

I'd love to see Membery win a flag.

 

[Saints43]

So coaches think he's the 2nd best player in a team who's currently 12th, with over 80% of his votes coming in losing games?

Sign him up pronto.

$12.5 million's clearly not enough.

He's the second best player at a club that has high end talent.

 

[Diehard Saint]

If Hastie was at the Cats he would already be 5kg heavier and on track to be a gun. He is an elite user, we just have painfully slow development compared to other teams.

Interstingly, father in law was around last night and we were chatting footy. He was a Cats board member for 10+ years not that long ago. He is absolutely astounded by Ross's claim we have 16 required hours at the club a week.

Cats premiership ship years was double this. Players demanded a level of excellence from each other. We are not a serious football club if blokes are legit spending 16 hours at week at work which includes tactical reviews.

It's absolutely baffling to me. Maybe our skills suck, because wtf can u actually achieve in 16 hours a week?

I don’t understand why we don’t change this.
Clearly, it’s not enough for a professional sporting outfit.
Why?

 

[PJays]

He's the second best player at a club that has high end talent.

None of their high end talent has been performing- that's why they're 12th instead of playing finals like the last couple of years.

If Curnow, Cripps, Weitering etc were playing like 2023 and 2024, Carlton would be top 8 and TDK would be 5th or 6th in coaches votes- or 7th like their B&F last year.

 

[Saints43]

None of their high end talent has been performing- that's why they're 12th instead of playing finals like the last couple of years.

If Curnow, Cripps, Weitering etc were playing like 2023 and 2024, Carlton would be top 8 and TDK would be 5th or 6th in coaches votes- or 7th like their B&F last year.

Okay. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
We've only won four matches as well. Our second best player is a really good player. Ports second best player is a really good player. Sydneys second best player is a really good player. All teams on the same spot on the ladder.

It's not the 'vibe'. AFL coaches think he's a really good player. But you know better...