List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Ads734]

sorry but the trac call is revisionist bullshit. he was the clear number 1.

serong not a good enough mid? because we went for hill and ditched acres on the cheap to make that happen.

Clark was never going to be it. Just like Jones never was. but some on here thought they were genuine mids which just goes to show they couldn't pick a mid to save them selves.

Naughton would have been a better bet and helped address the spine issue we have now.

We absolutely ****ed our selves again with the ben long over bolton call, which was clear as day.

If clubs can find a Lachie Neale and Warner deeper into the draft then we have no excuses. The Petracca call shows how far off we were in terms of identifying midfield talent.

Sinclair Wilkie and marshal rookies ?

Two all Australians I agree. Did how did all those teams pass on those guys…

 

[StCicatriz]

the problem with making ridiculous offers to opposition players is player managers are not dumb. why do you think players like Windy and Steele are now publicly leaking they're looking elsewhere.

they not ****ing idiots. they know theres a huge chunk of the pie up for grabs.

 

[StCicatriz]

Sinclair Wilkie and marshal rookies ?

Two all Australians I agree. Did how did all those teams pass on those guys…

must have missed the part where all three are bonafide A grade mids

 

[Saints43]

Weird way to build your list by getting rid of your good players who are in the age bracket we need
We won't know for a couple of years about the return,

Battle signed with another club, we didn't get rid of him. We offered him a contract and he decided to leave.
You seem to think Battle being at Hok happened to Battle. He chose it.

 

[Ads734]

must have missed the part where all three are bonafide A grade mids

Shai Bolton and all Australian mid …. ?

 

[SG34]

Personally think he's gone. Have been worried he will go home since forever. My only hope is he's waiting to see if we land TDK etc.

Apparently Tony said he's signing but I'm pretty new on Big Footy and didn't even know about the other forum so have got no clue of how good his track record is.

If anyone could inform me on previous stuff Tony has been right on it would be much appreciated to give me some hope about nas hahah

That's my gut read on it now too. Media is full of it but they also have a few bits floating around in the soup and I noticed when Morris said, he is looking for a club where he can see success. Our 72 point loss on Thursday. Our loss to West Coast. His carefree kicking into the corridor to only expose our mediocrity doesn't bode well.

 

[StCicatriz]

Weird way to build your list by getting rid of your good players who are in the age bracket we need
We won't know for a couple of years about the return,

people dont get the knock on either. the idea we could let good players go and go back to the draft and let form and results slide is hilarious.

like i always said... do that and you risk losing the younger talent you really do want to keep in the following seasons.

the idea isnt to keep going back to the draft. the idea is keeping the good players you have and building a genuine best 22 to make a finals run.

cycling battle for a mid... was a great idea until it never turned out to be a mid... which was exactly the scenario some of us said would happen from the get go

 

[Saints43]

the problem with making ridiculous offers to opposition players is player managers are not dumb. why do you think players like Windy and Steele are now publicly leaking they're looking elsewhere.

they not ****ing idiots. they know theres a huge chunk of the pie up for grabs.

I love Jack Steele but if his gambit is leaking to the media to get an improved deal when he has become a player that lays tackles for a living then his manager needs to talk strategy with him.
Possibly something about impacting football matches in a regular basis.

 

[StCicatriz]

Shai Bolton and all Australian mid …. ?

oh cherry pick the off comment i made about Shai Bolton. btw he absolutely ripped us a new one as a mid. you don't remember clearance after clearance playing through the midfield against us?

 

[StCicatriz]

Battle signed with another club, we didn't get rid of him. We offered him a contract and he decided to leave.
You seem to think Battle being at Hok happened to Battle. He chose it.

LOL you genuinely believe that. was clear as day we ****ed him on his last contract that gags gave out. then we shopped him. when we realised we were gonna get absolutely railed by hawthorn we then tried to put the genie back in the bottle and offer him something decent. pretty shit form. we played with fire and surprise surprise we got ****ing burnt.

the excuses used on here to justify said moves:
1) it will get us a top 5 pick and that will get us an elite mid: well yeah that never ****ing happened because surprise surprise we could win more games. we ended up just drafting a like for like. amazing list management,
2) we can't afford to offer him 400k more a year because thats reckless salary cap management and we need to make sure we have enough money for other players. nekt minute: 1.7 million a season for TDK and 900k a year for aleer (more than battle btw) is a ****ing great idea! like some of us always said 850k a year over 6 was **** all in today's landscape and would be worth event less by the time the deal ends.

real ****in smooth brain stuff!

the dead give away that battle was pissed, was he never went back to the hawks asking for more money. he stuck to his word. something we never did.

 

[StCicatriz]

I love Jack Steele but if his gambit is leaking to the media to get an improved deal when he has become a player that lays tackles for a living then his manager needs to talk strategy with him.
Possibly something about impacting football matches in a regular basis.

they don't care about impact, you know that!

managers are just looking to maximise the return for their player. if they could get steele 5 years of coin to sit on the pine, they'd do it as long as steele is comfortable with it.

 

[HeavenlySources]

LOL you genuinely believe that. was clear as day we ****ed him on his last contract that gags gave out. then we shopped him. when we realised we were gonna get absolutely railed by hawthorn we then tried to put the genie back in the bottle and offer him something decent. pretty shit form. we played with fire and surprise surprise we got ****ing burnt.

the excuses used on here to justify said moves:
1) it will get us a top 5 pick and that will get us an elite mid: well yeah that never ****ing happened because surprise surprise we could win more games. we ended up just drafting a like for like. amazing list management,
2) we can't afford to offer him 400k more a year because thats reckless salary cap management and we need to make sure we have enough money for other players. nekt minute: 1.7 million a season for TDK and 900k a year for aleer (more than battle btw) is a *ing great idea! like some of us always said 850k a year over 6 was * all in today's landscape and would be worth event less by the time the deal ends.

real ****in smooth brain stuff!

the dead give away that battle was pissed, was he never went back to the hawks asking for more money. he stuck to his word. something we never did.

LOL you genuinely believe that. was clear as day we ****ed him on his last contract that gags gave out. then we shopped him. when we realised we were gonna get absolutely railed by hawthorn we then tried to put the genie back in the bottle and offer him something decent. pretty shit form. we played with fire and surprise surprise we got ****ing burnt.

the excuses used on here to justify said moves:
1) it will get us a top 5 pick and that will get us an elite mid: well yeah that never ****ing happened because surprise surprise we could win more games. we ended up just drafting a like for like. amazing list management,
2) we can't afford to offer him 400k more a year because thats reckless salary cap management and we need to make sure we have enough money for other players. nekt minute: 1.7 million a season for TDK and 900k a year for aleer (more than battle btw) is a *ing great idea! like some of us always said 850k a year over 6 was * all in today's landscape and would be worth event less by the time the deal ends.

real ****in smooth brain stuff!

the dead give away that battle was pissed, was he never went back to the hawks asking for more money. he stuck to his word. something we never did.

Don’t care, Tauru

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Like who???

The Callaghan approach seemed after he signed.

The weight of the TDK signing is a massive distraction for the players.

What other club has had to deal with constant innuendo about their star player leaving and the largest contract in history on the table for a ruckman (when we already have a decent one)

I just wish the media would back off us, just once in a while.

Merrett, De Goey, LDU, Shiel, McClugagge should I go on?

 

[mad-saint-guy]

What is everyone's 'too late date' for NAS? (or is goose already cooked?)

Mine was a week ago. I think he's gone. If he was planning on signing, there's no reason why he wouldn't have already done it.

 

[Southeastsainter]

We can’t still be going on about Billings and McCartin can we? Jesus Christ.

The TDK stuff is rubbish, of course he’s gonna tell all his Carlton mates he wants to stay. If he turns down the $$ he’s a nuffie simple as that.

Starting to get very concerned about NAS, even all these fake he’s signed rumours have stopped… starting to think he’s gone.

 

[baysidesaint]

A mate of mine was at the President's dinner last Thursday night in an official capacity and spoke to CD about Nas and was told the club thinks he will stay.
They are meeting his manager again this week.
Apparently his manager ( Ben Williams) is an absolute flog.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We worry too much about the good trades we missed out on.

Maybe we should focus on the crap trades we avoided.

Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

32

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

MG

410.2

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

MG

334.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

for Gresh and our first round draft pick anyone?

 

[heynow85]

A mate of mine was at the President's dinner last Thursday night in an official capacity and spoke to CD about Nas and was told the club thinks he will stay.
They are meeting his manager again this week.
Apparently his manager ( Ben Williams) is an absolute flog.

Winner of the first Big Brither for those who don’t know.

 

[_Maximus_12]

A mate of mine was at the President's dinner last Thursday night in an official capacity and spoke to CD about Nas and was told the club thinks he will stay.
They are meeting his manager again this week.
Apparently his manager ( Ben Williams) is an absolute flog.

Yeah, I’ve not really shared an update since earlier in the season but the only real ‘mail’ I have is that he’s been a right campaigner. Was described to me that he sees this as his moment in the sun and is trying to cash in on Nas.
I’m still confident he stays but this could have been resolved a while ago with a competent manager.
Unlikely we will want to deal with any of his players in the future

 

[_Maximus_12]

Winner of the first Big Brither for those who don’t know.

Leading the charge for biggest w***er as well

 

[L_W_P]

sorry but the trac call is revisionist bullshit. he was the clear number 1.

serong not a good enough mid? because we went for hill and ditched acres on the cheap to make that happen.

Clark was never going to be it. Just like Jones never was. but some on here thought they were genuine mids which just goes to show they couldn't pick a mid to save them selves.

Naughton would have been a better bet and helped address the spine issue we have now.

We absolutely ****ed our selves again with the ben long over bolton call, which was clear as day.

If clubs can find a Lachie Neale and Warner deeper into the draft then we have no excuses. The Petracca call shows how far off we were in terms of identifying midfield talent.

No, he wasn't.

All of Petracca, McCartin & Wright were being spoken about as #1 options. 12 months earlier Hugh Goddard was being hyped up.

Given our KPF issues at the time, combined with the massive price the Dogs paid to get Tom Boyd, it was reasonable of the club to look at the consensus 2 best talls with our #1 pick.

Was Petracca a more impactful player? Sure. But McCartin had put up numbers that no KPF ever did and he did that despite not being 200cms tall.

He wasn't dominant because of size but because of his talent.

Go watch what McCartin was doing in games. He was a pack marking monster, even as a kid. If concussions didn't ruin him he would have played 200 games and kicked bags of goals.

We never had a chance to pick Serong because we traded for Hill. If you want to reverse engineer every trade we ever made, on top of drafting, then it's impossible to tell what the list would have looked like.

Naughton was a CHB option. We didn't need him at the time given we had Carlisle, Brown, Austin, Gilbert, Joyce, Battle & Roberton all on the list. We drafted Oscar Clavarino but that was a talent call, not needs based.

Nobody had a clue Naughton would be decent as a KPF and again, Clark & Coffield looked amazing early days.

Long over Bolton was the club not backing themselves to keep Shai in Victoria. He was always seen as a flight risk. Given he ended up asking for a trade the minute the Tigers turned to shit it was probably the right call. That we didn't keep Ben and get this sort of performance out of him is really frustrating.

The massive difference in our opinions here is that you seem to think it's just a matter of drafting the 'best' players. That getting the picks right means it'll work.

I take the position that development and coaching are far more important.

A good coach and culture will get far more out of a player, regardless of talent.

Our issue for the last decade is that everyone we draft seems to cop a serious of unfortunate events and that stalls their progress. Then we try playing semi established guys in unfamiliar positions - Dunstan at half forward, Acres in the ruck - or we DONT try moving guys around to see if they can succeed - McCartin to CHB, Billings at HB, Coff at HF...

Then we get to a point that their development dries up completely and all we are left with, if we're lucky, is a solid 20-25 type player.

Trac, Bont, Serong, De Goey, Naughton, Fogarty, Bolton... All of them would have either been under developed or traded.

We still won't know if we've fixed the issue under Lyon's watch for another 3+ years when the likes of Pou, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia etc are making up the bulk of the best 22.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yeah, I’ve not really shared an update since earlier in the season but the only real ‘mail’ I have is that he’s been a right campaigner. Was described to me that he sees this as his moment in the sun and is trying to cash in on Nas.
I’m still confident he stays but this could have been resolved a while ago with a competent manager.
Unlikely we will want to deal with any of his players in the future

Hence my previous confidence that the post bye signature of NWM was almost certain.

Everything was pretty much agreed to but with all the talk of NWM being AA, his manager went off trying to stir the pot in Adelaide.

Shades of Jye Caldwell where the player was happy with the deal but was still being shopped around by his manager.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No, he wasn't.

All of Petracca, McCartin & Wright were being spoken about as #1 options. 12 months earlier Hugh Goddard was being hyped up.

Given our KPF issues at the time, combined with the massive price the Dogs paid to get Tom Boyd, it was reasonable of the club to look at the consensus 2 best talls with our #1 pick.

Was Petracca a more impactful player? Sure. But McCartin had put up numbers that no KPF ever did and he did that despite not being 200cms tall.

He wasn't dominant because of size but because of his talent.

Go watch what McCartin was doing in games. He was a pack marking monster, even as a kid. If concussions didn't ruin him he would have played 200 games and kicked bags of goals.

We never had a chance to pick Serong because we traded for Hill. If you want to reverse engineer every trade we ever made, on top of drafting, then it's impossible to tell what the list would have looked like.

Naughton was a CHB option. We didn't need him at the time given we had Carlisle, Brown, Austin, Gilbert, Joyce, Battle & Roberton all on the list. We drafted Oscar Clavarino but that was a talent call, not needs based.

Nobody had a clue Naughton would be decent as a KPF and again, Clark & Coffield looked amazing early days.

Long over Bolton was the club not backing themselves to keep Shai in Victoria. He was always seen as a flight risk. Given he ended up asking for a trade the minute the Tigers turned to shit it was probably the right call. That we didn't keep Ben and get this sort of performance out of him is really frustrating.

The massive difference in our opinions here is that you seem to think it's just a matter of drafting the 'best' players. That getting the picks right means it'll work.

I take the position that development and coaching are far more important.

A good coach and culture will get far more out of a player, regardless of talent.

Our issue for the last decade is that everyone we draft seems to cop a serious of unfortunate events and that stalls their progress. Then we try playing semi established guys in unfamiliar positions - Dunstan at half forward, Acres in the ruck - or we DONT try moving guys around to see if they can succeed - McCartin to CHB, Billings at HB, Coff at HF...

Then we get to a point that their development dries up completely and all we are left with, if we're lucky, is a solid 20-25 type player.

Trac, Bont, Serong, De Goey, Naughton, Fogarty, Bolton... All of them would have either been under developed or traded.

We still won't know if we've fixed the issue under Lyon's watch for another 3+ years when the likes of Pou, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia etc are making up the bulk of the best 22.

I never really believed the hype that Coffield might be able to end up in the mid-field.
What i didn't expect was a total wash out.

 

[True Believer]

I love Jack Steele but if his gambit is leaking to the media to get an improved deal when he has become a player that lays tackles for a living then his manager needs to talk strategy with him.
Possibly something about impacting football matches in a regular basis.

If Steele is angling for an improved deal, then I suggest he needs to start paying for a ticket to our games, because he's had about as much impact as I have had sitting in the stands!

 

[_Maximus_12]

Also, for those who were worried about Caro’s comments that Nas is weighing up the prospect of success at St Kilda, I wouldn’t be concerned.
This suggests that he’s thinking about signing a long term contract. Clearly success is important to him which is great.