List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Nomis2933]

Mate I see the argument. I know they don’t think he is worth the money.

But those who are worth the money are not moving. So we can keep dancing around that or we can wait until the end of the trade period and see what comes off the back off this deal - which I suspect and am hoping is that we effectively just brought ourselves some very expensive draft picks to go along with a ruck that just replaced Roma for the same output or better.

For once Stavro we are in agreement. The cold hearted supporter like myself just sees the pros outweighing the cons here. If Marshall garners us a Late First Rd from Geelong or Adelaide for example, TDK plus baby Pou (or trading in an experienced midfielder) for a 30yo Marshall is a no-brainer decision that must be done. Heart and soul players are lovely to have around, but premierships are even more lovely.

 

[MordySaint]

The best way to appraise Moose and Dodson is to ice Marshall for the rest of the year and throw them the keys for the final 6 games.

Unless he is injured, then I don't think that Roma will like that. Seems the proud type, which is good trait to have.

Imagine telling Roo, sit out the rest of the season bud.

 

[gringo2011]

So if we don’t “contend” until 2027.

Marshall is 32. Where are we going from there? Because the likelihood is his best years are very limited from here and Dodson would still be 21 and raw.

Get Knobel from GC for FA as a bridge. Go after Madden from GWS. Both still fairly high potential and both semi developed

 

[gringo2011]

So there was no risk Joffa? Clubs just all passed for no reason.

There was cream all through that draft. Rucks take time so clubs tend to push them back.

 

[stavro#4]

Unless he is injured, then I don't think that Roma will like that. Seems the proud type, which is good trait to have.

Imagine telling Roo, sit out the rest of the season bud.

I couldn’t really care less what Roma wants. By all reports he is talking to other clubs right now.

Let’s do what’s best for us

 

[stavro#4]

There was cream all through that draft. Rucks take time so clubs tend to push them back.

You think there was that much cream that he fell to pick 53 do you?

 

[gringo2011]

Nas: “I need to see the club is trying everything to improve if I am to sign on again”.

Saints: “Well we have a FA, who was dominating early in the season, keen to come onboard. However some of our fans think he’s not worth the money we’ve offered so we probably won’t go in that direction. Unfortunately no one else wants to come to us. Anyway we’ve got to use it or lose it so I suppose we’ll just give Byrnesy and Cords each a 300% salary increase. They are a couple of our brightest stars and that should stop them being poached.

Anything else you need?

Nas: “Yeah. Can you order me an Uber to Tullamarine?

Or we are paying a B grade ruck $1.7 million x 7 but you can have $1.2.

 

[phantom13]

You think there was that much cream that he fell to pick 53 do you?

Id say its cause most clubs are looking at premiership ruckman and thinking your better off trading or FA for a good one when you start looking good.

Theyre just not the bit you use high picks for.

 

[Mangus]

Was discussed on the ABC yesterday Saints have front ended lots of contracts to create cap space in the next couple of years hence the $1.7 M for TDK he will earn huge money in his first couple of years ($2.5M maybe) - consider it a sign on bonus - then be on a more reasonable market rate for the remainder of the contract.

Ultimately the way to get better is to add good players to the list TDK is a good player and potentially an A grader we have manipulated our salary cap to allow us to overpay a free agent and he is the one that took the bait so he gets the mega dollars.

The Salary Cap is a tool and this is how you use it to improve your list we need a different strategy than the big clubs or the interstate clubs because we don't have their advantages we can't offer 90K crowds at the G or the lure of coming back to their home state or the anonymity of NSW or Qld we are competing against 12 other Vic Clubs.

We need a big free agent that has been part of our strategy and all our contracting has been set up to allow us to do this we have to pay 95% of the Cap each year so while we may have preferred LDU or Brayshaw or McLuggage they said no so TDK it is. This comes at zero draft cost you pay a premium for that.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Would like to see him more than one good game lol. Our recent history is littered with players that come in on debut, play very impressive, and then never do it again.

The bar is set pretty low if you classed that as impressive,

 

[gringo2011]

Players on decent ($approx 500k+) salaries that will LIKELY come off the books or be significantly reduced over the next 3 seasons:
Steele
Marshall
Hill
Howard
Sinclair
Wood
Macrae
Cordy ($400k)

We have a hole in our list of players aged 23-29 (which is generally the bracket that takes up the most cap space). Our two most valuable in this bracket are King and Higgins who are both contracted till 2028 or later.

That is a massive redistribution of salary cap to a very young list IF we don't add more players in that are 23 years old or older.

It’s the drain in years 5 to 7 is when these deals bite. Just at the point you need to sign your best players on their big contracts.

 

[gringo2011]

Was discussed on the ABC yesterday Saints have front ended lots of contracts to create cap space in the next couple of years hence the $1.7 M for TDK he will earn huge money in his first couple of years ($2.5M maybe) - consider it a sign on bonus - then be on a more reasonable market rate for the remainder of the contract.

Ultimately the way to get better is to add good players to the list TDK is a good player and potentially an A grader we have manipulated our salary cap to allow us to overpay a free agent and he is the one that took the bait so he gets the mega dollars.

The Salary Cap is a tool and this is how you use it to improve your list we need a different strategy than the big clubs or the interstate clubs because we don't have their advantages we can't offer 90K crowds at the G or the lure of coming back to their home state or the anonymity of NSW or Qld we are competing against 12 other Vic Clubs.

We need a big free agent that has been part of our strategy and all our contracting has been set up to allow us to do this we have to pay 95% of the Cap each year so while we may have preferred LDU or Brayshaw or McLuggage they said no so TDK it is. This comes at zero draft cost you pay a premium for that.

That’s the point though. This guy is massively overs for a good but not elite player. Surely we learned from Hill and others. We need to make ourselves a professional environment with momentum and then over paying doesn’t become necessary.

 

[gringo2011]

You think there was that much cream that he fell to pick 53 do you?

That was a really deep draft.

 

[phantom13]

The bar is set pretty low if you classed that as impressive,

For a ruckmans debut game...

Harsh

 

[Klaatu]

Get Knobel from GC for FA as a bridge. Go after Madden from GWS. Both still fairly high potential and both semi developed

Both are not number 1 rucks, both are still developing and both have no guarantees of coming on give me TDK all day.

 

[stavro#4]

Id say its cause most clubs are looking at premiership ruckman and thinking your better off trading or FA for a good one when you start looking good.

Theyre just not the bit you use high picks for.

With all due respect. Dodson was the outstanding ruck prospect last year. I was frothing for him in that draft thread. Regularly posting his highlights etc. he was a first round prospect that dropped to p53 and had a couple rucks go ahead of him. Rucks regularly go high in the draft (pulled up the fox sports draft review article for each year with the write up).

He slid because of spooking clubs with his dual Love of basketball. He only nominated an afl career in August. It was bloody late for a draftee and he had multiple scholarship offers to tier 1 colleges in the US.

2024: Gerryn p33
2023: Read pick 8 and Green p16
2022:Barnett p23
2021: Darcy p2 and Conway p24
2020: Neale p33 and Ryan p40 (Covid draft)
2019: Jackson p3

 

[stavro#4]

That was a really deep draft.

Essendon took Gerryn 20 picks earlier.

Don’t tell me he was a better prospect than Dodson

 

[AirWinmar]

I couldn’t really care less what Roma wants. By all reports he is talking to other clubs right now.

Let’s do what’s best for us

I reckon Roma could do with a freshen up tbh. Looks like he hasn't been 100% all year, so don't think it's a bad suggestion to give him a few weeks off and we have some decisions to make on our ruck setup for next year. Also if a break does him good he can come back in for a couple of games and hopefully play a couple of blinders

 

[phantom13]

With all due respect. Dodson was the outstanding ruck prospect last year. I was frothing for him in that draft thread. Regularly posting his highlights etc. he was a first round prospect that dropped to p53 and had a couple rucks go ahead of him. Rucks regularly go high in the draft (pulled up the fox sports draft review article for each year with the write up).

He slid because of spooking clubs with his dual Love of basketball. He only nominated an afl career in August. It was bloody late for a draftee and he had multiple scholarship offers to tier 1 colleges in the US.

2024: Gerryn p33
2023: Read pick 8 and Green p16
2022:Barnett p23
2021: Darcy p2 and Conway p24
2020: Neale p33 and Ryan p40 (Covid draft)
2019: Jackson p3

Youve got 3 that id consider high there (Read, Darcy and Jackson).

Read was academy and Darcy was father son so they dont count.

So you have one ruckman taken in a proper first round spot (if the best ruckman in the country is pick 23 it proves my point, youre taking half backs and forward pockets over them by then).

Im not potting Dodson nor am i saying there werent concerns about whatever but i think the good coaches and list managers have seen the ruck merry go round of each year, the type of flag winning ruckman and realised thats the final piece of a list you can **** around with free agency and trading not blowing a top end pick on.

Put it this way, where was Darcy Cameron drafted and where did he start?

Oscar McInenery, Nank...

 

[CaptainRisky]

For a ruckmans debut game...

Harsh

We have a difference of opinion, he has been in the system a good 4 years, it's not like he is a 19 year old

 

[phantom13]

We have a difference of opinion, he has been in the system a good 4 years, it's not like he is a 19 year old

Oh sorry did he debut at AFL level previously?

Must have missed it.

 

[jwikked]

The bar is set pretty low if you classed that as impressive,

You’re right lol. Was a good game for a debutant, he wasn’t a liability

 

[_Maximus_12]

The bar is set pretty low if you classed that as impressive,

He competed well in contested situations which we expected, but didn’t look like it between the arcs, which again we expected.

He’s got a long way to go before his running capacity and patterns allow him to play senior AFL football as a number 1 ruckman

 

[stavro#4]

Youve got 3 that id consider high there (Read, Darcy and Jackson).

Read was academy and Darcy was father son so they dont count.

So you have one ruckman taken in a proper first round spot (if the best ruckman in the country is pick 23 it proves my point, youre taking half backs and forward pockets over them by then).

Im not potting Dodson nor am i saying there werent concerns about whatever but i think the good coaches and list managers have seen the ruck merry go round of each year, the type of flag winning ruckman and realised thats the final piece of a list you can **** around with free agency and trading not blowing a top end pick on.

Put it this way, where was Darcy Cameron drafted and where did he start?

Oscar McInenery, Nank...

There was 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders in that list.

Yes rucks can come from anywhere. But the argument was that there wasn’t 52 players who were better than Dodson and rucks often go significantly earlier than pick 53.

Dodson slid because he spooked clubs. Not because of his talent or current capability. Which was the point I was making to Joffa originally.

Which I’m thrilled about by the way. I’m just more cautious than most on here about when he will be ready.

But as a prospect? As good as any listed young ruck in the league.

 

[L_W_P]

Assuming Roma goes to say, Geelong. RoMa + a 3rd for their first, something like that.

That gives us a late 1st to play with.

We can keep it, hit the draft again. Maybe cross our fingers for Phillipou #2. Maybe grab

Other option is we trade it.

Does adding that pick to our first get us one of the Tigers/Bombers earlier picks? Would that pick get us Aleer is he nominated us? Do we maybe look to live trade it to a team that gets a bit silly ala North buying Richmond's picks?

If it was Roma out, Aleer in does that feel like enough? I'm not sure...

What are we missing, list wise?

Another talented KPF to pair with King would be great. Get Owens & Pou on ball more. Could Tauru shock the world as a high marking, pack busting, CHF option?

Wilkie not getting any younger and Doogs is a question mark. Our interest in Aleer probably means we're open to grabbing a KPD option that can slot in immediately.

And we say every year that you can never have enough mids.

I think I'd hold it until the draft. See if there's a crazy slide or a team gets frisky with future pick offers. Worst case grab Phillipou Junior (the kids can call him Pou Ju) and keep developing the kids.