List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[stavro#4]

Here is why we don't judge picks the right way.

The worst pick we made during that fallow period was Ryan Gamble.

Is it because he was really poor? No.

Is it because we gave up a lot to get him? No.

It's because we picked him and then he played instead of Tom Lynch.

So we judge Lynch based on his output, but he was never really given a chance because we went and got Gamble at pick 90 and then played him.

OTOH, if we treat Lynch right and he stays, do we recruit Membrey? Butterfly effect and all that.

For me it’s more looking at it from the point of view of did we select the wrong talent?

In short, no alot of the time we selected a pretty good footballer.

We lost a number to injury.

Even this McCartin v Petracca debate. His season in Sydney had him rated as an elite CHB.

So did we potentially miss the best player in the draft? Yes. But we also missed an elite rated player - the talent ID wasn’t wildly off.

Every clubs muck up entire drafts like we did. It’s just the ones we hit we lost a number due to things you can’t predict. Like even when we made trades or built via other means, we got the short end of 3 very talented footballers in Carlisle Roberton and Koby Stevens, throw in Paddy into that lot and arguably you have lost 2 very good to excellent at their best Key position players. You lost an AA40 in Roberton and you lose Koby who was very handy.

But then you lost Jack to stuff out of our control. Gresham was broken from 2020-2022. Right on the cusp we thought we had a star.

It’s a lot of bad luck and it happened from the point that we were trying to build up not from a position of strength.

There are a lot of nuances to this as opposed to we drafted badly.

If there was an area that we should be critical. It’s that we held on too long to talented footballers and got cents in the dollar for their values - when if we backed ourselves in 12 months earlier. We would have received first rounders and potentially more.

 

[StCicatriz]

But it's true how do you know, we passed on Bont, we passed on Petracca, we passed on Smith, Rozee and Butters in one go.
We pass on so many good mids why not Serong? We probably would have selected Brodie Kemp.

100% agree with you and i think its the issue at hand! you've nailed it, we just keep passing on them. then on here theres a bunch of excuses made as to why we never got a mid

 

[StCicatriz]

Sorry gents don’t mean to interrupt a good lamenting session but last I heard re Nas was Tony from SS said it’s done and a couple of blokes on Perth radio confirmed it was soon.

Are we concerned or you reckon after last weeks showing he’s gone to his lawyers and seeing if there’s a cooling off period lmao?

i reckon if there's no pen to paper by start of august start to get worried.

 

[aidansbonor]

i reckon if there's no pen to paper by start of august start to get worried.

You're currently not worried?

 

[beside the seaside]

That fails all logic. We need to get shit right and perform and no one will remember the mistakes any more.

It's more the way we go over every mistake with a fine toothed comb.

One thing about 2020, which is just after we gave up the Serong pick for Hill, Howard et al. The footy we played that year was awesome and it was seriously the antidote to me getting over 09 and 10. A decade of feeling seriously awful about football and just replaying those games so often in my head.

2020 was such a horrible year in so many ways but it was the year my first kid was born and the footy we were playing, it brought joy in a really tough time. Now was the trade a mistake? Probably in hindsight you could say yes but is it so cut and dry? Maybe it gave the push a lot of fans like me needed, to see us actually competitive again.

It's five years ago now, just about six. To go through all the sliding doors of that trade is just so pointless. We are where we are now, hopefully we have learnt from the past, we've certainly tried a lot of different things (a crazy year of drafting all these mature aged players for one which pretty much backfired). Now it seems we're committed to drafting and not trading high picks. Will it work? Who knows, that's the thing with footy isn't it.

I agree that our drafting of mids has been pathetic for a decade but hopefully Pou is going to buck that trend. Hopefully Trav becomes a gun. Hopefully Tauru is a generational star. Hopefully TDK comes and is the next Gawn. Etc etc etc.

 

[beside the seaside]

You're currently not worried?

Tony74 said he'll stay. There are reports the manager is in weekly contact. Media is reporting we are confident. The signs seem to be positive.

 

[Remboy]

You're currently not worried?

Nah, but if he hasn’t signed by the beginning of next season I might be slightly concerned.

 

[MordySaint]

For me it’s more looking at it from the point of view of did we select the wrong talent?

In short, no alot of the time we selected a pretty good footballer.

We lost a number to injury.

Even this McCartin v Petracca debate. His season in Sydney had him rated as an elite CHB.

So did we potentially miss the best player in the draft? Yes. But we also missed an elite rated player - the talent ID wasn’t wildly off.

Every clubs muck up entire drafts like we did. It’s just the ones we hit we lost a number due to things you can’t predict. Like even when we made trades or built via other means, we got the short end of 3 very talented footballers in Carlisle Roberton and Koby Stevens, throw in Paddy into that lot and arguably you have lost 2 very good to excellent at their best Key position players. You lost an AA40 in Roberton and you lose Koby who was very handy.

But then you lost Jack to stuff out of our control. Gresham was broken from 2020-2022. Right on the cusp we thought we had a star.

It’s a lot of bad luck and it happened from the point that we were trying to build up not from a position of strength.

There are a lot of nuances to this as opposed to we drafted badly.

If there was an area that we should be critical. It’s that we held on too long to talented footballers and got cents in the dollar for their values - when if we backed ourselves in 12 months earlier. We would have received first rounders and potentially more.

The fact that we never tried Paddy in the backline was another issue entirely. The whole football world (most BF posters too) knew where he should be playing except for us.

 

[stavro#4]

The fact that we never tried Paddy in the backline was another issue entirely. The whole football world (most BF posters too) knew where he should be playing except for us.

No that wasn’t the issue.

This was paddy’s last season with us. He was starting to have impact on games. His next game of AFL football was 2022. We never had the chance to get him on the park again.

 

[Joffaboy]

100% agree with you and i think its the issue at hand! you've nailed it, we just keep passing on them. then on here theres a bunch of excuses made as to why we never got a mid

Yep. Look I am the eternal optimist and I support who they draft.
No problems with Billings and it is hindsight to say we should have taken Bont
Really wanted Petracca but wanted to support Paddy but was disappointed we didn't take a bull mid.
Was Ok with Gresham but still wasn't a mid
2017 Clark was a mid and I was good with him, both sided looked like a good in and under. I know you dont like him, but his career has been interrupted by some literally shattering injuries.
Coffield, was meh for me, never a mid fielder
2018, we got the propaganda about the Kings when there was Rozee (who the recruiting staff wanted) Bailey Smith and Butters to be had.
2019 the 6 years of debacles in drafting led us to getting 5 recruits, Butlet, Howard and Hill have been good, Paddy gone and Jones a disappointment.
From 2020 we started to look for mids with Crouch but should have found a way to take Caldwell.
From 2021 we started to draft to the best of our ability. NAZ is a great HBF'er, Windy is still a tagger, Owens a forward though
2022 Pou which was a good selection
2023 Wilson who will make a player
2024 we reverted back a bit both good players but not mids.

The mistakes made a decade ago still bite us. We could have started to correct it in 2018 but went for the shiny new toy.

Now in the era of totally compromised drafts we just can't land a foundation for our mids.

Bont and Petracca still star for their teams.

 

[St Muir]

The fact that we never tried Paddy in the backline was another issue entirely. The whole football world (most BF posters too) knew where he should be playing except for us.

You're forgetting the concussion issues. The swans may live to regret playing him.

 

[saintron]

All this talk about getting rid of Boyd is silly remember he won a magary medal in SA why not keep him and ruck with Marshall, Marshall rucked with Ryder and it worked well Yer Boyd might be slow so was Ryder. Great Dekoning play him in the ruck Marshall fullforward Boyd as a spare

 

[kernelT]

Who cares what people think

Says the guy too scared to wear headphones in public

 

[beside the seaside]

All this talk about getting rid of Boyd is silly remember he won a magary medal in SA why not keep him and ruck with Marshall, Marshall rucked with Ryder and it worked well Yer Boyd might be slow so was Ryder. Great Dekoning play him in the ruck Marshall fullforward Boyd as a spare

Ryder was a gun player, his forward craft was very good. Boyd is a big guy that can impact at ruck contests but doesn't seem to have any other strings to his bow.

 

[MordySaint]

No that wasn’t the issue.

This was paddy’s last season with us. He was starting to have impact on games. His next game of AFL football was 2022. We never had the chance to get him on the park again.

View attachment 2346746

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12 goals 17 behinds, balls being bombed down to him, lots of goals out the back or handballs on the goal line.

Not a great return for a forward in any stretch of the imagination.

2018 was not a year I want to remember. Annus Horribilis, probably worse than when we finished last.

 

[kernelT]

i reckon if there's no pen to paper by start of august start to get worried.

AUGUST FARKKKK!!!!

 

[gringo2011]

Here is why we don't judge picks the right way.

The worst pick we made during that fallow period was Ryan Gamble.

Is it because he was really poor? No.

Is it because we gave up a lot to get him? No.

It's because we picked him and then he played instead of Tom Lynch.

So we judge Lynch based on his output, but he was never really given a chance because we went and got Gamble at pick 90 and then played him.

OTOH, if we treat Lynch right and he stays, do we recruit Membrey? Butterfly effect and all that.

And this is why us negative posters cop shit from others. This fantasy cope land you guys live in, excusing all of our stuff ups makes all of us looked deluded.

 

[stavro#4]

'
12 goals 17 behinds, balls being bombed down to him, lots of goals out the back or handballs on the goal line.

Not a great return for a forward in any stretch of the imagination.

2018 was not a year I want to remember. Annus Horribilis, probably worse than when we finished last.

So in a dumpster fire of a side he was averaging 2.2 scores per game. Thats not including shots that didn’t score.

Keep in mind the context was that we won 4 games and finished 16th with an average score of 73 for the season.

 

[gringo2011]

For me it’s more looking at it from the point of view of did we select the wrong talent?

In short, no alot of the time we selected a pretty good footballer.

We lost a number to injury.

Even this McCartin v Petracca debate. His season in Sydney had him rated as an elite CHB.

So did we potentially miss the best player in the draft? Yes. But we also missed an elite rated player - the talent ID wasn’t wildly off.

Every clubs muck up entire drafts like we did. It’s just the ones we hit we lost a number due to things you can’t predict. Like even when we made trades or built via other means, we got the short end of 3 very talented footballers in Carlisle Roberton and Koby Stevens, throw in Paddy into that lot and arguably you have lost 2 very good to excellent at their best Key position players. You lost an AA40 in Roberton and you lose Koby who was very handy.

But then you lost Jack to stuff out of our control. Gresham was broken from 2020-2022. Right on the cusp we thought we had a star.

It’s a lot of bad luck and it happened from the point that we were trying to build up not from a position of strength.

There are a lot of nuances to this as opposed to we drafted badly.

If there was an area that we should be critical. It’s that we held on too long to talented footballers and got cents in the dollar for their values - when if we backed ourselves in 12 months earlier. We would have received first rounders and potentially more.

We gave up second round picks for injury busts and heaps of their dumb stuff too but Trout was a liability.

 

[MordySaint]

We gave up second round picks for injury busts and heaps of their dumb stuff too but Trout was a liability.

I'd like to see how many future seconds, thirds we have given up for mature players who haven't lived up to potential.

 

[gringo2011]

It's more the way we go over every mistake with a fine toothed comb.

One thing about 2020, which is just after we gave up the Serong pick for Hill, Howard et al. The footy we played that year was awesome and it was seriously the antidote to me getting over 09 and 10. A decade of feeling seriously awful about football and just replaying those games so often in my head.

2020 was such a horrible year in so many ways but it was the year my first kid was born and the footy we were playing, it brought joy in a really tough time. Now was the trade a mistake? Probably in hindsight you could say yes but is it so cut and dry? Maybe it gave the push a lot of fans like me needed, to see us actually competitive again.

It's five years ago now, just about six. To go through all the sliding doors of that trade is just so pointless. We are where we are now, hopefully we have learnt from the past, we've certainly tried a lot of different things (a crazy year of drafting all these mature aged players for one which pretty much backfired). Now it seems we're committed to drafting and not trading high picks. Will it work? Who knows, that's the thing with footy isn't it.

I agree that our drafting of mids has been pathetic for a decade but hopefully Pou is going to buck that trend. Hopefully Trav becomes a gun. Hopefully Tauru is a generational star. Hopefully TDK comes and is the next Gawn. Etc etc etc.

Well glad it got you over something because it set us back 10 years.

 

[beside the seaside]

Well glad it got you over something because it set us back 10 years.

That one trade set us back ten years?

 

[MordySaint]

That one trade set us back ten years?

I'd say it did.

Pick Petracca and we are flying. our whole team dynamic changes... someone who you can count on to take the game by the scruff of the next and will you over the line. Football is a relatively simple game, a couple of great players can control the game's outcome on their own. The rest are just foot soldiers.

I have hope, if we can actually recruit a star we will move forward.

The ball is in the court of the list managers and recruitment team.

 

[beside the seaside]

I'd say it did.

Pick Petracca and we are flying. our whole team dynamic changes... someone who you can count on to take the game by the scruff of the next and will you over the line. Football is a relatively simple game, a couple of great players can control the game's outcome on their own. The rest are just foot soldiers.

I have hope, if we can actually recruit a star we will move forward.

The ball is in the court of the list managers and recruitment team.

We're not talking about Petracca we're talking about the trade with Fremantle for Hill.

 

[The Punter]

And this is why us negative posters cop shit from others. This fantasy cope land you guys live in, excusing all of our stuff ups makes all of us looked deluded.

If you take this out of a post where I criticise a decision of the club (the mistake of drafting Gamble) then we might as well be speaking different languages.