List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[billings2paddy]

We aren't even 12 months in. People seriously need to chill.

Say that to the couple thousand saints fans wearing viking hats

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

We aren't even 12 months in. People seriously need to chill.

It took Gawn 7 years in the AFL system to become good, Rucks always take time outside of freaks like Nic Nat.

Gawn is one of the best rucks this game has seen and yet it takes time.

 

[billings2paddy]

It took Gawn 7 years in the AFL system to become good, Rucks always take time outside of freaks like Nic Nat.

Gawn is one of the best rucks this game has seen and yet it takes time.

29 touches
10 clearances
3.1 goals
35 hitouts
BOG
Is way ahead of schedule for a ruck
Solid signs
Looks a Dalrymple special

 

[Miha]

29 touches
10 clearances
3.1 goals
35 hitouts
BOG
Is way ahead of schedule for a ruck
Solid signs
Looks a Dalrymple special

Crazy how far he slid down to our pick. Touted to go top 20

 

[Joffaboy]

Crazy how far he slid down to our pick. Touted to go top 20

Apparently he is getting picked up by the Celtics at any moment.

 

[Teflon]

That’s the point though. This guy is massively overs for a good but not elite player. Surely we learned from Hill and others. We need to make ourselves a professional environment with momentum and then over paying doesn’t become necessary.

I honestly don’t think professional is enough that’s expected at this level Lyon brought that
We don’t have a competitive advantage against 12 other clubs
Hawks trying desperately hard to become the “bayside hawks” ….with their shit colours they’ll prostitute themselves anywhere and still be called Horethorn
We need success and sustainable success to change our narrative and the stigma attached to our club
To do that we need to improve the list
TDK is overs right now - we all know it
IF he hits early season form and becomes the dominant mobile ruck in the game …it’s genius
But clubs like ours have to take that risk especially after throwing coin and being knocked back by every decent mid
He’s not Hamil or Gehrig type coup ….but could be a start IF we can get the best out of him and keep kids development going

 

[Ads734]

I understand the list just fine.

Getting a midfielder for the sake of a midfielder is a different issue if you think paying Rowell $2m is the way forward. Both would be big overpays - both should improve us.

Different discussion if it was Noah Anderson. Would be worth every cent.

Garcia did something on the weekend that the best sides get a few times a week.a goal from Front of stoppage exit. Rowell isn’t going to give you that regularly.

That was the point.

It’s not getting a mid for the sake of a mid. Rowell would come in as our best mid and arguably our second or first best player. TDK doesn’t even serve a need for us.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

He snapped his achilles which basically killed his career right then.

Hugh was looking like a stud until he collapsed in training before that season, and then he snapped his achilles in his first game after that. Horrid luck. The achilles is the big career-killer that is still prominent. Players can get back from ACLs now but they're clearly dimished after an achilles rupture

 

[mad-saint-guy]

29 touches
10 clearances
3.1 goals
35 hitouts
BOG
Is way ahead of schedule for a ruck
Solid signs
Looks a Dalrymple special

Seems like he'd be ready to get a few tastes at senior level next year, play most of 2027 as a support ruck/forward and potentially primed to be the starting ruck from 2028 onward. Shame he'll have to be behind our 1.7mil per year recruit until 2032 so will be traded in 2-3 years for greater opportunity.

 

[phantom13]

Hugh was looking like a stud until he collapsed in training before that season, and then he snapped his achilles in his first game after that. Horrid luck. The achilles is the big career-killer that is still prominent. Players can get back from ACLs now but they're clearly dimished after an achilles rupture

Having done both as a park plodder I can back this up. It’s a brutal injury and you’re never the same after it (surgeon and physio said as much). It’s also one of the rare injuries where the recovery actually out paces the pain and feel. You have to push through because it gets better before it feels better, getting confidence back is incredibly hard.

With the Dodson stuff I think the plan (if we didn’t get TDK) wouldn’t be to rush Dodson in, it would be to rotate Dodson and Heath as the backup behind Marshall for a couple more years while he develops. I seriously doubt anyone is suggesting Dodson take the full season of ruck duties from 2026 or even 2027, Roma likely has a couple years left. Heath (as much as I liked his debut) looks like a backup sort plus Boyd or some state league pleb in case of injury.

Clearly we’re getting TDK but the pathway to keep Roma and develop Dodson looks clear to me (and honestly I think it’s more appealing but I know my position on ruckmen is biased too)

 

[L_W_P]

Seems like he'd be ready to get a few tastes at senior level next year, play most of 2027 as a support ruck/forward and potentially primed to be the starting ruck from 2028 onward. Shame he'll have to be behind our 1.7mil per year recruit until 2032 so will be traded in 2-3 years for greater opportunity.

Or... He's had 1 brilliant game and we overreact and pull the pin on the TDK offer, burning our bridge with his manager and who knows how many more opportunities in the future.

Dodson reverts back to the mean and takes 4-5 years to get going (ala Moose) while TDK signs with Geelong and ave 20+ possies and a goal for 100+ games.

I get that people hate the money being spent, I personally wouldn't spend it on a ruck either, but the club's pot committed as this point. Unless TDK has some sort of mental breakdown or injury issue in the back end of the season he's as good as ours.

 

[phantom13]

Or... He's had 1 brilliant game and we overreact and pull the pin on the TDK offer, burning our bridge with his manager and who knows how many more opportunities in the future.

Dodson reverts back to the mean and takes 4-5 years to get going (ala Moose) while TDK signs with Geelong and ave 20+ possies and a goal for 100+ games.

I get that people hate the money being spent, I personally wouldn't spend it on a ruck either, but the club's pot committed as this point. Unless TDK has some sort of mental breakdown or injury issue in the back end of the season he's as good as ours.

Yeh its clearly done, i can see the alternative pathway with the rucks as i said above but youre right, were all in now.

 

[beside the seaside]

If Dodson comes on it can only be a good thing. The fact he has an eye for goal and looks quite mobile is really exciting, most good young rucks start out as a forward, hopefully we see him get some games next year.

If we think he can be a decent forward option then it probably increases the likelihood of trading Marshall this year.

 

[BrutThough]

Could this be the Tuesday?

 

[beside the seaside]

Could this be the Tuesday?

If he has signed up, they'd probably wait a week after the racism stuff yesterday, unless Nas really wanted to get on the front foot. But he might just want to lay low for a week after that, who knows.

 

[jwikked]

Could this be the Tuesday?

The sooner the better lol.

At the least, surely Caro will have something to say about tonight

 

[MightySaint]

Spoke to somebody I know at the club (Ross). He said Nas expressed a strong desire for any announcement to be made on a Thursday.

 

[BrutThough]

The sooner the better lol.

At the least, surely Caro will have something to say about tonight

Caro's been on leave due to her father's passing.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I was wrapt we grabbed Dodson at the draft and it looks like the club are going to very happy with Dalrymple's decision. I said back then I would have been happy to take him with the Barrat pick, but he slipped through which was brilliant. Its remarkable what happens with kids who are used to playing the No 1 rucking role, when they are given that opportunity how much they grow.

We all know my thoughts on recruiting Boyd, for me he was always going to be the worst possible list clogger when we were screaming for players in other positions.

I hope Dodson and Heath's improvement doesnt affect what we do with Marshall. For me Marshall is a must keep to play a tall forward 2nd ruck position.

King is an enigma and his body keeps letting him down and without him we really dont have a go to tall forward able to play the role. I am confident even if King is fit, Marshall and TDK can rotate through the forward line.

Sharman is more a tall flanker and has found it tough being matched by bigger opponents, Owens is also a flanker and much better when he gets the 4th or 5th best defender. Keeler is developing but still has a way to go, but will be motivated by the games and learnings he has had this year.

I hope the club persist with Caminiti in defence even if they bring in Aleer. If all the talls are fit play Howard, Caminiti and Aleer on the 3 talls and allow Wilkie to play an intercept role on medium sized forwards. Allow Tauru the chance to move around the ground where needed.

Said and Barrat are the only two 2024 recruits not to debut this year. Barrat has been thrown to the wolves having to play at full back in a side that has been pumped most weeks. Said is small in stature and is taking time getting used to playing against the bigger bodies.

Ps Sorry Dodson hasnt debuted but everything is looking like he might get a chance.

 

[Yawkey way]

I can't even see Dodson playing a full season right regardless of form. His body would be cooked. Ruck is one of the hardest positions to play.

It’s rare but young rucks have taken the game head on and killed it in the past. Thompson, Ditterich, Dempsey and quite a few more who were certainly playing and impacting games in an era where no quarter given was given.

If their good enough you play them, footballs the same game at any level, do an acl, break a leg etc.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Could this be the Tuesday?

Alas it seems we may have to wait a bit longer

 

[Sully111]

I don't think Ro is a very good forward.

 

[_Maximus_12]

I don't think Ro is a very good forward.

He is an average forward has his contested marking has dipped significantly this year

 

[phantom13]

If Dodson comes on it can only be a good thing. The fact he has an eye for goal and looks quite mobile is really exciting, most good young rucks start out as a forward, hopefully we see him get some games next year.

If we think he can be a decent forward option then it probably increases the likelihood of trading Marshall this year.

I suppose the "concern" would be that we lose Dodson (good rucks tend to change clubs cause only one of them can play).

It would also be tough to get a good pick back for him at that point as he'll have had little exposure.

Ultimately the main issue (not MINE as such) is cost for good ruckmen. As it stands right now Dodson, Roma, Heath and Boyd would probably cost us $500k LESS than JUST TDK will and if we did Roma for another 3-4 years then get Dodson, Dodson would likely never go near the $1.7m we wll be giving TDK.

Now Dodson is a risk, one good game etc. TDK represents some risk as well but alot less. All list management decisions are a risk, i think most of us at least feel like weve got a solid administration making good choices (which we havent for a while now).

I back the decisions theyll make (albeit from my armchair id rather Roma/Dodson/Heath) and note that having TOO much talent is never a bad issue to have.

 

[phantom13]

I was wrapt we grabbed Dodson at the draft and it looks like the club are going to very happy with Dalrymple's decision. I said back then I would have been happy to take him with the Barrat pick, but he slipped through which was brilliant. Its remarkable what happens with kids who are used to playing the No 1 rucking role, when they are given that opportunity how much they grow.

We all know my thoughts on recruiting Boyd, for me he was always going to be the worst possible list clogger when we were screaming for players in other positions.

I hope Dodson and Heath's improvement doesnt affect what we do with Marshall. For me Marshall is a must keep to play a tall forward 2nd ruck position.

King is an enigma and his body keeps letting him down and without him we really dont have a go to tall forward able to play the role. I am confident even if King is fit, Marshall and TDK can rotate through the forward line.

Sharman is more a tall flanker and has found it tough being matched by bigger opponents, Owens is also a flanker and much better when he gets the 4th or 5th best defender. Keeler is developing but still has a way to go, but will be motivated by the games and learnings he has had this year.

I hope the club persist with Caminiti in defence even if they bring in Aleer. If all the talls are fit play Howard, Caminiti and Aleer on the 3 talls and allow Wilkie to play an intercept role on medium sized forwards. Allow Tauru the chance to move around the ground where needed.

Said and Barrat are the only two 2024 recruits not to debut this year. Barrat has been thrown to the wolves having to play at full back in a side that has been pumped most weeks. Said is small in stature and is taking time getting used to playing against the bigger bodies.

Its worth doing the excercise of doing a fully fit best 23 based on TDK coming.

Do that and tell me where Roma plays cause i cant find a spot for him (noting i reckon if we want a fwd/back up ruck Keeler is a better option especially if King and Sharman are playing and hes getting a second or even third tall defender) and the knock on Roma is hes not a good RUCKMAN and Keeler looks a much more natural forward (Keeler has a 3 goal game in 10 total games, Roma has 2 in 150 games.

If Roma is a 2s player, does he want to stay? If he does does it make sense for us to pay him $800k or whatever to be playing twos?

I stand by that if Roma wants to stay then absolutely retain him, if he wants out we should do that.