List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Really interested as to why we would.delist Cincotta?
I would delist 10 before him. He plays tough
Is it injury related?

Can barely get a kick related maybe……..

 

[BeijingBlue]

TDK is 100% waiting to see who our next coach is. He wouldn't have called a meeting with Wright to see what was happening next year if he wasn't seriously considering staying. He wants to stay at Carlton, but he needs to see what the direction is going to be next year before he decides to take the big money offer.

I think this is the case for a lot of our players. Not just the ones we know of like TDK, JSOS. If the coach, line coaches, head of football etc. aren't changed, we will have a bit of an exodus. Opposition teams can sniff the carcass and are making moves while our players are disgruntled. It's clear as day the players are over the game plan, training regime (focusing on reviews more than skills) etc.. when it's a majority that are unhappy and a majority of players whose form has dropped off magically all at once then it says the issues are far greater than the players. The environment, coaches etc are a big problem. It's our kids showing ticker and fight now because they aren't the ones mentally and physically burnt out from years of a taxing game plan that gives us no wriggle room to get wins unless we get the game completely on our own terms.

"The environment, coaches etc are a big problem." A good summation

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Well I'm in for the long haul - another 10 year rebuild takes me to 73.

Me too agro!
As in I'm in for the long haul and I too will be 73.

We'll never see again what we experienced back in our younger years but wouldn't another one or two be nice?

I feel for our young fans!

 

[Tom14]

Only double digits 3 times? I haven’t looked to closely at his stats but last year in the finals he kicked 2 against us 3 in the prelim and 4 in the granny. I found it hard to believe his never kicked double digits any other game even though he’s going at 1.2 goals a game this season

Ah chee player as a defender/winger most of his career.

Only became a permanent forward last year, and regularly does defensive jobs as well. Stats don’t show his value imo.

 

[bringdoullback]

Not a lot spoken about owies. Have we missed him?

 

[Moon]

We'll probably finish bottom 4 this year."

c'mon Bro .... we aint that bad, surely.. not with all the talent we have?

I reckon 12th is Carlton's sweet spot. It has a homely feel about it.

 

[macky99]

This season has basically been his 4 weeks notice at work. Take a stroll on the pitch, play like crap, have a laugh with the teammates and oppo and then walk into your new $1.7mil per season job.

Honestly don’t even blame him as we’re more than happy to accomodate how crap he’s been this season.

l doubt that he is on his own in terms of performance this year, aside from a couple of players not many have performed to their capabilities

 

[Zlatan]

l doubt that he is on his own in terms of performance this year, aside from a couple of players not many have performed to their capabilities

Almost every single player is on the shit performance list this season, excluding the kids who I give leeway to.

He’s 100% mentally checked out though and is just counting down the minutes till he’s out of here.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Ah chee player as a defender/winger most of his career.

Only became a permanent forward last year, and regularly does defensive jobs as well. Stats don’t show his value imo.

Is another defensive small/ medium forward what we need?
The fast, consistent, x- factor types are hard to find.
And that's why there's not many of them.

Just remove a few of our excess one's and go back to the draft. ( unless we can lure a Elliott/Papley for a couple of twilight years)

 

[BennyGFunk]

I always thought we missed a massive opportunity but not going after a Hodge years ago to teach the players leadership and standards..

Compare the Carlton and Brisbane rebuilds..

 

[COACH25]

Would love to get Lachie Ash from giants

 

[dangertroy]

Really interested as to why we would.delist Cincotta?
I would delist 10 before him. He plays tough
Is it injury related?

I’d look to keep him FWIW, but pretty sure he needs elevating to the senior list, so it might be an issue with list spots. He’s also turning 29, so this will likely be his last contract and will be looking for more than minimum chips if we keep him around.

Kinda like Owies last year. If he was contracted then I think we would have kept him, but he was coming out of contract at the wrong time. Might have had a similar level of trade value, although the injuries this year probably squashed that.

 

[Moon]

Not a lot spoken about owies. Have we missed him?

Who?

 

[branedotorg]

Not a lot spoken about owies. Have we missed him?

Limited footballer but kicked a lot of goals for us we haven't replaced.

We've missed him this year but trading him was a long term investment into Smith.

 

[Doro]

Not a lot spoken about owies. Have we missed him?

Our 3rd, 4th and 5th most potent goal kickers last year were Owies, Kennedy and Martin. We went the Malthouse strategy of delisting/trading all our forward threats. Combine that with a pre-season focusing on defence and you have a formula for a poor offensive conversion.

 

[JJBagger]

Our 3rd, 4th and 5th most potent goal kickers last year were Owies, Kennedy and Martin. We went the Malthouse strategy of delisting/trading all our forward threats. Combine that with a pre-season focusing on defence and you have a formula for a poor offensive conversion.

We had to make changes to try improve. Martin was beyond unreliable, while it was between Kennedy and Hewett for a mid role (which Kennedy wanted). Owies helped get us pick 3, so that will be an absolute win for the future

 

[ferrisb]

Collingwood team really is moneyball. Apart from the Daicos brothers and De Goey they aren't any stars - just ultra consistent players and a gameplan that is well executed

We are the exact opposite...

 

[jaggabagga]

Really interested as to why we would.delist Cincotta?
I would delist 10 before him. He plays tough
Is it injury related?

Totally agree, I like him as a defender and don't think throwing him in different roles has done him any good. I'd play him in defense over most of our small defenders, including Hollands who is not a good backmen. Isn't much of a winger either for that matter.

 

[Doro]

We had to make changes to try improve. Martin was beyond unreliable, while it was between Kennedy and Hewett for a mid role (which Kennedy wanted). Owies helped get us pick 3, so that will be an absolute win for the future

We didn't give any consideration to how our ability to score would be affected though. Expecting a combo of Durdin, Fogarty and Motlop to hit the scoreboard isn't what I call smart management. At least Moir has developed though. The sides in contention all have multiple scoring threats, whilst we've gone from poor to worse last off season.

 

[JJBagger]

We didn't give any consideration to how our ability to score would be affected though. Expecting a combo of Durdin, Fogarty and Motlop to hit the scoreboard isn't what I call smart management. At least Moir has developed though. The sides in contention all have multiple scoring threats, whilst we've gone from poor to worse last off season.

None of that has anything to do with personnel. We’ve gone from top 2 in scores per inside 50 in each of the last 2 seasons, to the worst by a long way this season. And we’ve gone from a top 4 scoring team in each of the last 2 seasons, to bottom 4. You think that’s purely down to losing Martin, Kennedy and Owies?

 

[macky99]

Almost every single player is on the shit performance list this season, excluding the kids who I give leeway to.

He’s 100% mentally checked out though and is just counting down the minutes till he’s out of here.

He is hardly going to a team that is any better, if Saints get TDK and lose Nasiah Wanganeen that is a step back for them.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Every player on our list should be offered contracts in line with their output, the only reason this is a story is because its a Silvagni and the name holds a lot of history.

Jack has looked really good down back this year and its crazy that he wasn’t given a role there previously, by three different coaches mind you.

The only perspective that is needed is, this is Jacks 10th season, he’s not a kid, he averages 12.8 games per season across those 10 seasons and in his best ever season, he was ranked 10th in our B&F, the deal we offer him should reflect this as this is his output.

He's also one of the players with better disposal in a team full of players who can't hit the side of a barn. And has more desperation in his little finger than half of the team combined. Not to mention demonstrated footy smarts that are also better than a significant number of players on the list.

For me, this is not about his name at all, it's about whether the club can afford to lose him, especially over what sounds like a trifling amount.

Having a player like Jack around the club to mentor what look like some promising young defenders coming through is more important - in my opinion - than one half of one percent of the salary cap.

 

[Doro]

None of that has anything to do with personnel. We’ve gone from top 2 in scores per inside 50 in each of the last 2 seasons, to the worst by a long way this season. And we’ve gone from a top 4 scoring team in each of the last 2 seasons, to bottom 4. You think that’s purely down to losing Martin, Kennedy and Owies?

Nothing to do with personnel? We've got a hobbling Charlie who's checked out, Harry has missed a big chunk of the season and pressure smalls that don't kick goals. Combined with a game plan that takes the small out of the f50 to defend. You'd be licking your lips as a defender against our current forward line. Double up on Charlie and Harry with the long kicks and we've got nothing else.

 

[BlueTongue]

Nah, see this is the predictable Carlton response. "Wah, Wah, we are very slightly worse than we expected this year. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the shower curtain, all the bath toys and call in the cleaners because we are completely rebuilding this bathroom from scratch. And we're getting the RIGHT people in to do it this time"

So, you've opened up a dialogue and played the man straight up with your 'Wah Wah' crap. Given you've put so much effort into your response, I'll not bite too hard at your Cool-hand Luke smartass approach.

"Season is over for us". No it isn't. There are four games left - almost a quarter of the season. You are going to watch them, I'm going to watch them, and there is a world of difference between ending the year on a 5 game losing streak and ending it with 5 wins in 6 games. All of those games are winnable, too.

"Play the kids". Sure. Aren't we doing that?

The season is over as far as any form of hope/respect. Rest our senior players (Charlie is hardly making a difference atm is he?) who have been battered all season under the current Game-plan and give someone (Lemmey) a chance to get a taste in the last 4 games.

HOF, Carroll were brought in because of a need to cover injuries, and have definitely injected some optimism and hope into the club. Others have gone out during the season as fast as they have come in when Voss needs a scapegoat.

Don't we want to give them a memorable first experience? Same goes for the veterans who are retiring, playing in milestone games, others who are playing for their careers (maybe trying a new position, maybe just having one last crack). Don't we want to give them a good shot? I'm sure they are rapt that instead of talking game plan their coach has been out all week denying that their star full forward wants to play for Gold Coast. "Ok Binnsy, you are in for this week. Kick it long to Charlie who totally wants to be playing with you, I promise".

So, other than Doc, who are "the veterans who are retiring, playing in milestone games" ? Doc and Weiters had their acknowledgements this week, who else? Newy won't be playing again this season ?

Is there a world where a properly focused Voss and playing group aren't distracted by a week of turmoil, and instead put together a more cohesive game plan, don't get beaten senseless in the first quarter vs Hawthorn, and go on to a narrow but inspiring win, that sets up a great run to the end of the year?

I don't know if that's possible, and none of us ever will, because Carlton can simply NEVER allow its team that sort of headspace. Instead the second we are out of finals contention the 'cleanout starts' because its always about sacking until we find the RIGHT people, and no one is ever allowed to have a down year, and then have a chance to turn it around. I mean, we've dropped all the way from 8th to TWELFTH while dealing with a bunch of unexpected injuries and issues- definitely time to hit the panic button.

A bit Rant-ish here ^ , so leaving that, suffice to say the last time we had a full review come in and was hardly a knee - jerk reaction.

'Clear the decks before the draft'. Well yes - the draft is scheduled for November 19th, roughly four months away. We can't keep a tight ship and try to maintain an air of professionalism until the last playing game of the season, because that would leave us only three months to get ready? Sorry, I don't buy that.

What on earth would sacking Lloyd today achieve? Some sense of validation for bitter supporters who want blood, any blood, not realising that as soon as blood hits the water in footy, the sharks arrive and start taking chunks from places that you might not have wanted (ie: SOS, Charlie, and whoever else is next...)?

Yes. Start with Lloyd now. Give Bartel or whomever some time to look at what he's facing, meet with people and decide who provides value, and start putting together a strategy in the last 3 months before the draft. I dare say Wright has already made some observations but no point leaving the wrong people there now to make the decisions until the 11th hour.

For that matter, whoever thought it was a good idea to announce Wright was taking over in August, before the end of the season, has a lot of thinking to do about what they are trying to achieve.

I'm guessing they are trying to forewarn of impending change and alleviate the unrest and calls for blood by demonstrating action earlier.

From what has come out in a few places today, it seems that's been the catalyst for a lot of people inside the club going into self-preservation mode and both players and administrators starting to pretty up the resume and look elsewhere.

Well, experience says that when any organisation goes into that mode you lose the pieces you want to keep (because they find a suitor elsewhere quickest) and get left trying to save face with the less attractive options. That's the pathway to a 'full rebuild (tm)'

I just wish for once we hadn't gone down this route. Why can't we be Sydney, who are arguably having a worse year so far - dropped from second to probably missing finals (current match notwithstanding). Why aren't they sacking the whole footy department and blowing it all up, or facing a mass walkout?

Sydney are adjusting to a new coach in his first year, and are still a LOT better placed than us with regard to Talent, buy-in, and the way the are playing. You are answering your own question.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

He's also one of the players with better disposal in a team full of players who can't hit the side of a barn. And has more desperation in his little finger than half of the team combined. Not to mention demonstrated footy smarts that are also better than a significant number of players on the list.

For me, this is not about his name at all, it's about whether the club can afford to lose him, especially over what sounds like a trifling amount.

Having a player like Jack around the club to mentor what look like some promising young defenders coming through is more important - in my opinion - than one half of one percent of the salary cap.

Not for an overinflated salary and tenure based on about 8 games of footy over the last 2 1/2 years