List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Psychochook]

Mots was playing too quickly early doors, coached for composure, built his tank, found a sweet spot, then got injured, still battling to regain it. Can play. Hoping the new fitness guy will lean him up in the legs and strengthen the core.

He looks to be on the correct path.

Early this season, I had him as a list clogger.
I'd nicknamed him 'almost'.

What I see now is a player who looks to be working his proverbial off to make the changes necessary to stay on an AFL list.

He is holding more marks, looks leaner, fitter, cleaner and maybe a fraction faster.

He may not have the mercurial traits we associate with his surname, but I think he's getting as much out of himself as he can.

The effort is there.

He's not bobbing up late to contests to get token screen time (the old, 'there's Motlop, 5 metres behind everyone else again'), he's now making them and contributing.

I no longer see him in a contest and expect the opposition to win the ball back easily.

He is one of our most improved players this season and I thought I would NEVER say that.

The girls in my family love him, always have.

 

[carlton_99]

While I am not enamoured that we have compromised a year where we should have been in a “window”, I feel we still have a positive future to contemplate.

As a “student” of list management and avid watcher of young talent, I remain excited by our future. The list dynamic will go through significant change in the next two to three years with a dozen or so ageing “second tier” types at or approaching their career mortality along with some culling of depth type players who are being, hopefully overtaken by our developing youngsters.

The saving grace for me is that the senior core combined with the developing youth should still give us close to thirty very capable best 22 players, and thus quickly return us to that premiership window.

Other than the probable TDK departure, I doubt we are actually going to lose any of our “stars”. Even if we do lose one of them, I firmly believe we can cover (unless it is Harry diminishing our genuine talls along with De Koning) the loss sufficiently and would benefit from increased draft cqpital and salary cap relief.

Our out of contract list is starting to sort itself. We still have some question still to answer. There is probably a little movement among some of our contracted players either through trade or delisting to facilitate space. (Dogs very much barking that Elijah Hollands “has to go”). The other contracted players who may have questions asked regarding tenure for mine, are Jaxon Binns, Lewis Young (raised every year), perhaps out of favour Jordan Boyd and the prematurely extended, but rumoured retiring Adam Saad.

Uncontracted
1. Jack Silvagni - Likely stay on multi year deal. The Collingwood interest is real, but difficult to see Jack moving despite his mate being on the dark side. If he leaves we get more draft capital. Give a year of development for HOF and Dean may not be catastrophic bar the cultural implications.

3. Jesse Motlop - divides us supporters, but his best is very good and difficult to see us shopping him. If he wants a big pay day might be in for a shock though. Surely better suited with improved game plan. For mine, would just give a one year extension to assess under new regime, but suspect would get a two year extension.

11. Mitch McGovern - rumoured to have an auto extension clause, but yet to be confirmed. His best gives us “layers” but we too rarely see it. Struggles to produce consistently and can appear very conditional. It is time to part company, hopefully a reasonable pick can be obtained in return.

12. Tom De Koning. - Likely gone as free agent. The draft capital will/would be invaluable. Likely creates problems for others if he re-signs. No right minded person would begrudge him accepting the outlandish reported offer.

14. Orazio Fantasia - Injury continues to punctuate his career. Difficult to see him kept over other options, but on ability could be retained pending other decisions. Some mentorship ability which would be a positive.

15. Sam Docherty - RETIRED - Thanks mate.

17. Brodie Kemp - we are hearing very little. Clearly his rehab is a consideration. His versatility is a big positive and people quickly forget his early season form, which included a five goal haul. Surely gets another deal for two or three years.

26. Nick Haynes - Revelation and great mentor. Has had a quality season, perhaps slowing a little as the season goes on, but hard to imagine not giving an extension for another season due to his form and value mentoring the kids.

31. Harry Lemmey - Slow burn, showing enough in the reserves to be retained. With Harry, Charlie, Kempy and likely HOK in front of him, we may consider trade offers if, as rumoured, they come. With H and Chas contracted until the end of the decade, we would have time to develop a replacement. Interesting call.

34. Rob Monahan (R-B) - Cat B showing improvement in the twos. Might go either way if we feel an NGA prospect is a better bet with a Cat B spot.

35. Billy Wilson - favourite of many. Hard to get a read on his internal rating. Unless we desperately need to make space surely gets at least another year to build on his debut game.

38. Will White(R) - Thinking Thursday moved him ahead of the other rookies vying for a spot(we need to cut two absolute minimum). Still building and his left foot gives POD. Heart and soul Blueboy.

39. Alex Cincotta(R) - difficult read. Brought back after injury with limited impact. Needs promotion to the main list, and that may cost him with spots tight. Still see him as a defender who can go in to the middle rather than the Jack of all trades Voss sees him as. One rumour has him gone, which could have credence given his injury run and aging body.

41. Matt Duffy (R-B) - Likely has two years on his contract, so expect him to go on.

44. Francis Evans (R) - Supporters are finally coming around to him. Solid depth, but think he is going to struggle to maintain his spot given we are two rookies over quota.

45. Flynn Young (R) - Was excited at his signing, but, while getting some games, has not really shown enough of his quality left peg. Low possessions question if he is up to the level. Toss of a coin guven last in first off possibility.

With Doc retired, we will have ten other players turning 30 or older in 2026 and we need to manage their exits sensibly.
McGovern, Haynes and Fantasia are in the uncontracted and it would be good business to exit at least two of them this year. Potentially Saad could join them. Newman, Cripps, Williams, Acres, Hewett and Pittonet are the others who would all be considered best 22 if TDK defects.

Really good and detailed post. Agree with a lot of your thoughts. Hopefully your right on JSOS as I do think he takes that little bit of pressure off Dean/HOF.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

We were winning by 60+ every week for some time.

And how long was some time?

Not consistent , and didn't ever finish in the top 4 after H & A season

Constantly winning brings top 4 finishes

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

While I am not enamoured that we have compromised a year where we should have been in a “window”, I feel we still have a positive future to contemplate.

As a “student” of list management and avid watcher of young talent, I remain excited by our future. The list dynamic will go through significant change in the next two to three years with a dozen or so ageing “second tier” types at or approaching their career mortality along with some culling of depth type players who are being, hopefully overtaken by our developing youngsters.

The saving grace for me is that the senior core combined with the developing youth should still give us close to thirty very capable best 22 players, and thus quickly return us to that premiership window.

Other than the probable TDK departure, I doubt we are actually going to lose any of our “stars”. Even if we do lose one of them, I firmly believe we can cover (unless it is Harry diminishing our genuine talls along with De Koning) the loss sufficiently and would benefit from increased draft cqpital and salary cap relief.

Our out of contract list is starting to sort itself. We still have some question still to answer. There is probably a little movement among some of our contracted players either through trade or delisting to facilitate space. (Dogs very much barking that Elijah Hollands “has to go”). The other contracted players who may have questions asked regarding tenure for mine, are Jaxon Binns, Lewis Young (raised every year), perhaps out of favour Jordan Boyd and the prematurely extended, but rumoured retiring Adam Saad.

Uncontracted
1. Jack Silvagni - Likely stay on multi year deal. The Collingwood interest is real, but difficult to see Jack moving despite his mate being on the dark side. If he leaves we get more draft capital. Give a year of development for HOF and Dean may not be catastrophic bar the cultural implications.

3. Jesse Motlop - divides us supporters, but his best is very good and difficult to see us shopping him. If he wants a big pay day might be in for a shock though. Surely better suited with improved game plan. For mine, would just give a one year extension to assess under new regime, but suspect would get a two year extension.

11. Mitch McGovern - rumoured to have an auto extension clause, but yet to be confirmed. His best gives us “layers” but we too rarely see it. Struggles to produce consistently and can appear very conditional. It is time to part company, hopefully a reasonable pick can be obtained in return.

12. Tom De Koning. - Likely gone as free agent. The draft capital will/would be invaluable. Likely creates problems for others if he re-signs. No right minded person would begrudge him accepting the outlandish reported offer.

14. Orazio Fantasia - Injury continues to punctuate his career. Difficult to see him kept over other options, but on ability could be retained pending other decisions. Some mentorship ability which would be a positive.

15. Sam Docherty - RETIRED - Thanks mate.

17. Brodie Kemp - we are hearing very little. Clearly his rehab is a consideration. His versatility is a big positive and people quickly forget his early season form, which included a five goal haul. Surely gets another deal for two or three years.

26. Nick Haynes - Revelation and great mentor. Has had a quality season, perhaps slowing a little as the season goes on, but hard to imagine not giving an extension for another season due to his form and value mentoring the kids.

31. Harry Lemmey - Slow burn, showing enough in the reserves to be retained. With Harry, Charlie, Kempy and likely HOK in front of him, we may consider trade offers if, as rumoured, they come. With H and Chas contracted until the end of the decade, we would have time to develop a replacement. Interesting call.

34. Rob Monahan (R-B) - Cat B showing improvement in the twos. Might go either way if we feel an NGA prospect is a better bet with a Cat B spot.

35. Billy Wilson - favourite of many. Hard to get a read on his internal rating. Unless we desperately need to make space surely gets at least another year to build on his debut game.

38. Will White(R) - Thinking Thursday moved him ahead of the other rookies vying for a spot(we need to cut two absolute minimum). Still building and his left foot gives POD. Heart and soul Blueboy.

39. Alex Cincotta(R) - difficult read. Brought back after injury with limited impact. Needs promotion to the main list, and that may cost him with spots tight. Still see him as a defender who can go in to the middle rather than the Jack of all trades Voss sees him as. One rumour has him gone, which could have credence given his injury run and aging body.

41. Matt Duffy (R-B) - Likely has two years on his contract, so expect him to go on.

44. Francis Evans (R) - Supporters are finally coming around to him. Solid depth, but think he is going to struggle to maintain his spot given we are two rookies over quota.

45. Flynn Young (R) - Was excited at his signing, but, while getting some games, has not really shown enough of his quality left peg. Low possessions question if he is up to the level. Toss of a coin guven last in first off possibility.

With Doc retired, we will have ten other players turning 30 or older in 2026 and we need to manage their exits sensibly.
McGovern, Haynes and Fantasia are in the uncontracted and it would be good business to exit at least two of them this year. Potentially Saad could join them. Newman, Cripps, Williams, Acres, Hewett and Pittonet are the others who would all be considered best 22 if TDK defects.

If Motlop is kept he needs to train pre season as a mid. He is absolutely hopeless up forward.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

And how long was some time?

Not consistent , and didn't ever finish in the top 4 after H & A season

Constantly winning brings top 4 finishes

Something like 5 in a row 50+
We won 11/12 and made the preliminary
We played pretty good football in the second half of that season whether you like it or not.
Not much different for the first halves of 2022 and 2024.
Obviously there's also been periods where we haven't played well too.

 

[Jimmae]

I didn't say Cerra wasn't earning more than Hewett.. They've both got to be earning less than the top players but still substantial coin.

Sure, I just meant I was surprised that Hewett would be earning more.

I thought Pitto and Cez took less per year for a longer contract.

It's the only reason I could see to extend Pitto for 4 years and Cez for an extra extension when he still had a fair while left on his contract.

I would hope Pitto is below average. The contract being 4 years was bad enough.

Jesus.
1.8 x 8 should get us pick 1 compo.

This is why we probably need franchise tags.

 

[bringdoullback]

no, you're missing the point.

Forget the money, you take most of the top 6 from any side... see how they go.

We need to understand why our blokes are side-lined, mentally or physically, seemingly so much more than other teams.

If those six were playing anywhere near their best - not an unrealistic expectation - and TDK was offering more than just lip service, we'd be top 4 comfortably.

To my mind, and there is ample evidence in now, it's on the coaches, the game plan and, in part at least, the so called, albeit spluttering, high performance crew.

Dont disagree with anything you said. Fixing SC and adding quality mid level players won't work without above too.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Willing to sell a kidney for a Nasiah Wanganeen Milera

 

[circusdevil]

Willing to sell a kidney for a Nasiah Wanganeen Milera

I'm happy for you to do that too...

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Our players will turn on the next coach like they have done with every coach before him.

didnt realise the playing list was static and never changes. News to me. Thought about 25% got turned over yearly. I must be wrong.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

We need to put the same offer in front of NWM that the saints have put to TDK

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I’m of the camp, who are not overly concerned with who we move on. As long as we nail the players coming in.

We need players with a combination of the qualities (below).

1. Speed
2. Foot skills
3. IQ
4. Mongrel
5. Leadership

the bottom 3 of these come from the club and it's leadership, how well roles are taught and defined and how cohesive each unit is internally and with others.... And pride.

The fact they're three of a top 5 needed things to me just screams more again that it won't matter until the leadership is fixed and pride is there when playing in the Navy or working for the Navy blue.

Plus I reckon points one and two would look a whole lot better with a team of fresh and managed players who arent permanently fatigued or carrying something.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We need to put the same offer in front of NWM that the saints have put to TDK

I don't like doing anything the same as a club that has never been relevant ever. Maybe we don't take ideas from their Operations

 

[Benaly28]

Indeed.

But interesting that Weitering wasn't in xDQ82x 's list of untouchables...

Only Jagga is untouchable IMO.

 

[Benaly28]

We need to put the same offer in front of NWM that the saints have put to TDK

Only a club like the aints can offer a ruckman more than a generational talent like NAS.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I don't like doing anything the same as a club that has never been relevant ever. Maybe we don't take ideas from their Operations

The difference is NWM is worth every cent so it’s hardly doing the same thing. Gotta say the attitude is a bit embarrassing too, saints have been far more relevant for the last few decades

 

[bradfisher14]

didnt realise the playing list was static and never changes. News to me. Thought about 25% got turned over yearly. I must be wrong.

Names change.

Culture remains.

 

[Gavstar]

Names change.

Culture remains.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast and transformation (change) for Lunch

 

[branedotorg]

Names change.

Culture remains.

Memetic transference

 

[beowulf]

Charlie 3 pre season surgeries - including an ankle reco in December. The fact he’s on track for 40 goals this year is almost freakish based on what he went through pre season

That said, there are still things in Charlie's game that I would like him to work on.
[1] His body language, for one, can be soul-destroying. Let's see more of the chest thumping hero who raises morale for a change.
[2] I would also like to see more effort from Charlie in the negative side of his game. He shouldn't be being out marked. Ever. He should learn to chase and tackle like he means it. I want him to tackle to hurt!

 

[Blue By Blood]

Watching the North game the other day, how on earth did WB get more for Caleb Daniel

5

Caleb Daniel

Age

29

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

than we did for Kennedy!? Just a case of a weak team overpaying for a player or did we seriously underrate Matty? The Bulldogs would be absolutely rapt with how those 2 trades panned out. Kennedy has been a huge upgrade on Macrae for them.
Not trying to turn this into a why did we trade Kennedy discussion.. just more so how the Bulldogs got more for Daniel.

Really hope we bring in some pieces to boost our forward line potency. Think we should be looking at a guy like Ah Chee. Good in the air and at ground level. Doubt we'll see any names linked to us while all this uncertainty surrounds us though.

 

[ajs071]

Saad to possibly announce retirement in the next couple of weeks

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

We need to put the same offer in front of NWM that the saints have put to TDK

We would have to trade for him and pay the $. TDK is a free agent, so not same same. I doubt we’d have the money anyway.

 

[Benaly28]

I’m guessing the game against the * would be appropriate

 

[dangertroy]

That said, there are still things in Charlie's game that I would like him to work on.
[1] His body language, for one, can be soul-destroying. Let's see more of the chest thumping hero who raises morale for a change.
[2] I would also like to see more effort from Charlie in the negative side of his game. He shouldn't be being out marked. Ever. He should learn to chase and tackle like he means it. I want him to tackle to hurt!

You’re replying to a post about him having three pre-season injuries and that impacting his performance. It’s not like he’s choosing not to mark, chase and tackle - he just doesn’t have the fitness base to do that. The body language is also that of a bloke who knows that he’s being out worked, and that when he’s at his best he should be smoking them. But he just can’t this season.

He’s barely had any support with Harry and Kemp only playing a handful of games each, so he’s been coping the best defender week in week out. We rushed him back in too after the Richmond loss, and he was nowhere near up to it.

If the forward line was functioning, then there’s a good chance that we could have managed him through a bit more of the season, or given him time to do a mini pre-season block. But that’s not how our match committee rolls. Now that finals are mathematically out of the equation, I won’t be surprised to see him put on ice or sent for surgery.