List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[BlueTongue]

I've been wondering about the absolutely over the top goal celebrations that modern players display.
Is this to elevate their own personal 'brand', or maybe an AFL sanctioned American style attempt to attract International viewers?

Watching the slow motion replay of the 'Wizards ' showmanship on Friday night was nauseating.

Yes it was and is. Players today all think they are Michael Jordan. It's all about me.
I get it, you're pumped, you've just kicked a goal, but FFS keep it real.
Shades of the Duursma Bow & Arrow...

 

[carlton_99]

Yes please ... Carlton would be better if forwards kicked more Goals ... trust me.

Of course but setting a goal tally they have to hit to pass expectations makes little sense to me when the player's role is more than just goals. Bobby Hill is seen as one of the better small forwards in the competition and the most goals he's kicked in a year is 33 - the exact same as Matt Owies.

 

[carlton_99]

Edit: The bar has been set low for Motlop because all his fans are relying on his potential ... young fella ... he will improve.
It's not like he has actually delivered much so far ... so let's not set the bar too high eh?

You still haven't answered the question. What is the bar that has been set for Motlop that you deem to be "too low"?

 

[Blue By Blood]

Upside is in your opinion.
IMO showed SFA this season despite being gifted games (thought we were fattening him up for value) and the same faults that limit his output at AFL level, over the highlight he may throw in per game to tantalise = your upside.

I and most of us here (seemingly) are not saying he's some gun player.. but what you and Moon keep overlooking and failing to answer, is if we get rid of him are we going to bring in better with that junk pick? If you think so that's fine but please name some guys in the draft you think will be better in that late draft pick range with more upside. Or just explain your rationale here on how we move him on and get better from doing so because I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to understand the thought process. Simply saying he's no good doesn't really add any value to the discussion. I also don't see any good small forwards out there that have been linked to any teams let alone us through trade.

Every list management decision has to be about what makes us better. I genuinely don't think what we would get for him in a trade (and there may not have been significant takers anyway) would make us better than what Motlop can provide for a year or two. Either he acts as depth for a year or so on a small contract (worst case scenario) or he improves a lot (best case scenario). He won't be on significant money so it's the smart play at least in my opinion to retain him rather than bring in a late draft pick in a weak draft.

So bottom line is I can understand the frustration around his performance- I totally get that. I also understand the passion of wanting to get rid of players to get better but you have to weigh up what we could have instead. He shows glimpses here and there which tantalise a little bit but has some clear flaws. I get that. But the reality is we can't move him on if there are no takers offering what we want/currency to get better.. so then we either accept a junk pick for him or we delist him and go to the draft with a crap pick or search the DFA scrap heap. Retaining him is the smart play.

 

[The Bighouse]

I and most of us here (seemingly) are not saying he's some gun player.. but what you and Moon keep overlooking and failing to answer, is if we get rid of him are we going to bring in better with that junk pick? If you think so that's fine but please name some guys in the draft you think will be better in that late draft pick range with more upside. Or just explain your rationale here on how we move him on and get better from doing so because I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to understand the thought process. Simply saying he's no good doesn't really add any value to the discussion. I also don't see any good small forwards out there that have been linked to any teams let alone us through trade.

Every list management decision has to be about what makes us better. I genuinely don't think what we would get for him in a trade (and there may not have been significant takers anyway) would make us better than what Motlop can provide for a year or two. Either he acts as depth for a year or so on a small contract (worst case scenario) or he improves a lot (best case scenario). He won't be on significant money so it's the smart play at least in my opinion to retain him rather than bring in a late draft pick in a weak draft.

So bottom line is I can understand the frustration around his performance- I totally get that. I also understand the passion of wanting to get rid of players to get better but you have to weigh up what we could have instead. He shows glimpses here and there which tantalise a little bit but has some clear flaws. I get that. But the reality is we can't move him on if there are no takers offering what we want/currency to get better.. so then we either accept a junk pick for him or we delist him and go to the draft with a crap pick or search the DFA scrap heap. Retaining him is the smart play.

Gave 3 names to begin with; Francis Evans, Walter White, Flynn Young.

Motlop pick could = Chesser, Khamis etc.

Rather trial Rosas vs JM. Don’t care about age, seen enough to see it’s not clicking to be the footballer we need (caught with the ball just about every f’n time he gets the ball - can’t slot set shots) just like plenty of others that have been delisted.

 

[ITK]

Motlop is 21... what are some of your people on?

He's shown a bit, particularly in finals. Cut him some slack. Development isn't linear. He will be a best 22 small forward for years to come. Hopefully we're smart enough to keep him.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Yes it was and is. Players today all think they are Michael Jordan. It's all about me.
I get it, you're pumped, you've just kicked a goal, but FFS keep it real.
Shades of the Duursma Bow & Arrow...

I’d prefer a goal celebration that was the worst thing you’ve seen in your life to the stupid songs that come on and ruin my hearing after every single goal.

That’s something to get upset about

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Nice

 

[The Bighouse]

Motlop is 21... what are some of your people on?

He's shown a bit, particularly in finals. Cut him some slack. Development isn't linear. He will be a best 22 small forward for years to come. Hopefully we're smart enough to keep him.

4yrs in the system, 4th being very underwhelming. Should have been dropped throughout but persevered with for some reason.
Jack Carroll didn’t fare too well after the same amount of years. DFA because no one wanted to trade for him. Eerily similar & equally talented but not AFL quality…?
Durd’s next..?

 

[Blue By Blood]

Gave 3 names to begin with; Francis Evans, Walter White, Flynn Young.

Motlop pick could = Chesser, Khamis etc.

Rather trial Rosas vs JM. Don’t care about age, seen enough to see it’s not clicking to be the footballer we need (caught with the ball just about every f’n time he gets the ball - can’t slot set shots) just like plenty of others that have been delisted.

Those 3 names are already on our list, at least as things stand. None of which are genuine crumbling small forwards. F. Young definitely isn't a small forward and White and Evans haven't really shown crumbling ability. All are half forward types- not your damaging goal sneak type. Although you can mount an argument that Motlop isn't either I get that.

We can use late picks to get Chesser, Khamis etc. anyway so don't really need a late pick for Motlop.

Rosas is linked to Sydney and Richmond so it doesn't seem like we are in the frame for him despite being somewhat briefly linked early.

Which brings us to another point somewhat irrelevant to our discussion.. we don't have any genuine small forwards. White and Evans aren't small forwards, more half forwards who can push up a bit higher. Motlop and Durdin are more midfielders in small forward bodies but not good enough (not quick enough or strong enough or durable enough) to be midfielders that can withstand and extract around the contest. Motlop is the closest thing we have to a genuine small forward and that's the scary thing. It's a clear list issue and it blows my mind how we keep going for the dart throwing of taking smalls with late picks rather than targeting an acquiring a good one. It's like the club doesn't understand the importance of a good small forward in the modern game and fell into that mantra that you can get smalls with late picks/rookie draft.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Who would say no?

Swans get: Curnow, Silvagni Compo
Eagles get: Warner, De Koning Compo
Blues get: Pick 1

Means we would clear our compo picks that would get eaten by a Dean bid.

Sorry buddy but what in the hell is happening, it’s like I’m in the spirit world, did you see the size of that chicken

 

[The Bighouse]

Those 3 names are already on our list, at least as things stand. None of which are genuine crumbling small forwards. F. Young definitely isn't a small forward and White and Evans haven't really shown crumbling ability. All are half forward types- not your damaging goal sneak type. Although you can mount an argument that Motlop isn't either I get that.

We can use late picks to get Chesser, Khamis etc. anyway so don't really need a late pick for Motlop.

Rosas is linked to Sydney and Richmond so it doesn't seem like we are in the frame for him despite being somewhat briefly linked early.

Which brings us to another point somewhat irrelevant to our discussion.. we don't have any genuine small forwards. White and Evans aren't small forwards, more half forwards who can push up a bit higher. Motlop and Durdin are more midfielders in small forward bodies but not good enough (not quick enough or strong enough or durable enough) to be midfielders that can withstand and extract around the contest. Motlop is the closest thing we have to a genuine small forward and that's the scary thing. It's a clear list issue and it blows my mind how we keep going for the dart throwing of taking smalls with late picks rather than targeting an acquiring a good one. It's like the club doesn't understand the importance of a good small forward in the modern game and fell into that mantra that you can get smalls with late picks/rookie draft.

All currently unsigned but more worthy on output & $$’s saved IMO.

I don’t see any proof that JM is a goal sneak, which you can validate as well.

Unfort we don’t see much crumbing from any of our small forwards, which is one of our issues. Poor positioning + flying for marks when they’re 5’ FA.

We’ve tried & tried under Austin & Co. but it is not a forte of his it seems to snaffle a small with forward craft. Wasn’t enamoured with the JM pick / traits at the time - would have been brilliant if Austin had seen Paul Curtis ahead of him (double as a small).

 

[morningbrown]

Motlop being fast or agile is such a myth. Never seen a small forward get caught as much as he does.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Campbell, Humphrey, Reid and Watson are the only “small forwards” younger than Motlop and kicked more goals than him this year.
Two of them were top 6 picks and Reid I think 14.
I don’t see Motlop ever being a great player but he is travelling alright and if we could upgrade on him easily that would’ve already been done.
2 years is fine. People have been delisting/retiring Durdin, Fogarty and Williams next year all season. White and Young haven’t passed him. It just makes sense to give him two years

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Strongly disagree with this bit, he's very fast once he's moving but his agility and especially his acceleration are poor.

For me he needs to slim down and hope we switch to a game plan where he plays less full field defensive coverage.

He is effective once on the move running towards goal but is not a good runner defensively. If we wins or contributes to the clearance it looks a million bucks but is very ineffective if his man gets it.

I'm not writing him off but I don't think he suits the role we've been asking him to play.

was J. Russell our forwards' coach?

Says it all.

They were clueless...

 

[Blue and Silver]

I think people are too harsh on Motlop.

I think a lot of his issues are to do with being over-coached.

Early on he played very instinctively, especially around goals.

Coaches wanted him to play more up field and you can start to see the gears churning when he gets the ball, trying to make decisions.

I think he needs to be encouraged to get back to basics, play straightforward aggressive footy and be given more free reign to just be a forward

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I think people are too harsh on Motlop.

I think a lot of his issues are to do with being over-coached.

Early on he played very instinctively, especially around goals.

Coaches wanted him to play more up field and you can start to see the gears churning when he gets the ball, trying to make decisions.

I think he needs to be encouraged to get back to basics, play straightforward aggressive footy and be given more free reign to just be a forward

Paralysis by analysis………
I think we have a few suffering from this!

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Paralysis by analysis………
I think we have a few suffering from this!

Looks a bit more free flowing in his 23 highlights.

Some good crumbing goals and smart positioning for those blind to his forward craft.

 

[woof39]

I wonder if Motts' struggles at times in 2025 was coaching related? Those who understand these things, has he been played in the right position? What should his role be?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I wonder if Motts' struggles at times in 2025 was coaching related? Those who understand these things, has he been played in the right position? What should his role be?

Maybe a combination of things, team ball movement has certainly changed, maybe his starting position & role also

 

[TENACIOUS]

Have been thinking about my negativity towards Motlop and what it stems from.

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward (which we need him to be), he’s so far off the mark. Stats don’t make up for the eye test and match winning ability of other small forwards in the league.

If we could bring in a top shelf small forward and Evans takes another step forward, Motlop drops to the 3rd in line. Take the shackles off, may allow him to become a B Grader.

As an example. If we could turn Curnow and either TDK or JSOS pick, into Walter and Rachelle it would be a no brainer.

GC: Curnow
Adelaide: JSOS Pick (GC to appease Adelaide)
Carlton: Walter & Rachelle

 

[Blue and Silver]

I have done a quick review of other small forwards, it really is a role that a player either doesn't really start showing strong signs until season 3-4 or they were a mature age pick up.

Smalls who start out strong are often the 2nd or third general forward in their team and get almost no attention from opponents

 

[Markyd]

Have been thinking about my negativity towards Motlop and what it stems from.

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward (which we need him to be), he’s so far off the mark. Stats don’t make up for the eye test and match winning ability of other small forwards in the league.

If we could bring in a top shelf small forward and Evans takes another step forward, Motlop drops to the 3rd in line. Take the shackles off, may allow him to become a B Grader.

As an example. If we could turn Curnow and either TDK or JSOS pick, into Walter and Rachelle it would be a no brainer.

GC: Curnow
Adelaide: JSOS Pick (GC to appease Adelaide)
Carlton: Walter & Rachelle

Geez stay away from list management we are getting shafted in this deal.
Curnow for the GC version of Casboult no thanks, I’d rather keep the Coleman medalist. Don’t get the knock on Motlop either he’s 21 and should be coming into his prime.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Have been thinking about my negativity towards Motlop and what it stems from.

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward (which we need him to be), he’s so far off the mark. Stats don’t make up for the eye test and match winning ability of other small forwards in the league.

If we could bring in a top shelf small forward and Evans takes another step forward, Motlop drops to the 3rd in line. Take the shackles off, may allow him to become a B Grader.

As an example. If we could turn Curnow and either TDK or JSOS pick, into Walter and Rachelle it would be a no brainer.

GC: Curnow
Adelaide: JSOS Pick (GC to appease Adelaide)
Carlton: Walter & Rachelle

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward - he is 21 with essentially 1 full pre-season under his belt.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

They're rumoured to be keen on Elliott for a 2 or 3 year deal.
Might be better value than Charlie until their super star juniors mature.
Charlie was dreadful in last years finals campaign, as were the Crows 3 headed monsters this year.

Shoosh. Dont tell Gold Coast that until after we trade him there.