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- Thread starter Aphrodite
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I understand why they signed him but I agree, I wouldn't have
If Ollie can take the best aspects of Acres and add his far far superior foot skills we will have a very high quality player. That it, acresā running back in defensive transition and getting forward at all costs out the back when needed.
Wing is vital and it's why I am keen for Walsh to play on a wing
However, as for Acres, he had a poor year but struggled without pre season and shoulder issues. His first year for us was awesome. He is one I feel needs to be 100% fit or he struggles. His game is built on workrate.
His weakness is disposal so if he isn't doing everything else he is a liability.
Question is can he get to his best or can others like Chesser Lucas Wilson go past him?
Any player who plays one AFL game is not a dud. Whilst they may not become a consistent AFL player. Making it to the highest level is a great achievement imo.
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- Apr 7, 2006
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The position on the ladder confirms that more than a few of our players are - in fact - Sh1t.
I don't think Ollie is. I just can't see why he can't develop further in the VFL at times.
We have a huge gaping hole for quality ball users in the team. Florent thinks he's a half back. Newman comes back in. Maybe Boyd finds his form again.
We can't have it both ways though.
Bring all these new very specific player types in but all of our existing players currently in those roles are fine??
Acres and Ollie were poor ball users last season. They either tidy that up or play VFL.
- Apr 7, 2006
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You cannot rely on kicking efficiency as a stat fullstop. The worst stat in footy by a long way.
- Apr 7, 2006
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Bloody Hell
You can dress it up if you like and put positive spins on everything but we do have problems with the list. Big problems. Wright can't fix them all in 1 off-season.
I really hope this pretty brutal off-season has lit a fire under the squad though. The depth is there to drop some of the sacred cows.
Standards just have to lift.
- Aug 16, 2009
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It would be nice if some of our "fans" would put up their accomplishments too.. just so we can determine who really is shit/a dud.Bloody Hell
Do professional athletes not have minimum standards?.Do you have to have played the game to know which players are at the level and which aren't.It would be nice if some of our "fans" would put up their accomplishments too.. just so we can determine who really is shit/a dud.
BAAAAAAALL!
Wrong thread lol
Wrong thread lol
- Aug 16, 2009
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They do, it has little to do with supposed fans running their mouths. No, obviously not, it is just a funny exercise to highlight who really is shit.Do professional athletes not have minimum standards?.Do you have to have played the game to know which players are at the level and which aren't.
Given your response, I gather comprehension & getting a kick have proven a challenge for you.
Play on.
Are you a statistician? What is your margin for error ?
Are you suggesting that a randomised rate is more or less on par?
I understand that there can be some deviation in confidence level and not all kicks are equal, but to state that you cannot completely rely on the stat full stop is absolute nonsense. Please donāt try and make yourself more intelligent than others by making these sort of statements.
Being antagonistic and belittling seems to be fine in response to posters that don't always conform to the utopian viewpoint espoused by certain posters. Comprehension is one not one of my challenges in life...
Not about "positive spins" or 'standards" at all. I am as critical of our standards and culture as anyone here.
Just calling players "sh1t' is pathetic IMO
Criticise ability, effort etc but this stuff is ordinary and not needed
Before the season started I thought Ollie would be a disaster due to his kicking at half back Soapy was telling us he was looking good I highly doubted it.But he was far from a disaster he was punching shorter kicks low and flat a couple of howlers but he has improved and is improving his kicking.
I donāt think he is far away from being similar to Hewett who is very reliable 35 maybe 40 meters.
I think with his attitude and mindset he will incrementally improve every year he will never be a Daicos or Pendelbury.
Iām not sure his best position is hbf or not but I think itās good he got to play a second role it gives us and him some flexibility
Guilty as charged
The half-back vs wing thing is more a matter of focus than anything else.
Voss has always had his wings push back very hard defensively, probably as much as any team in the league. We have never used our wings particularly well as attacking players on the switch (the Weitering/Ollie/Docherty/Acres goal in the semi-final vs Melbourne was notable because it is so rare for us).
Instead, Voss likes to have his smaller defenders run through the middle using handball chains with the midfield. Think Saad streaking off the backline. Basically, our wings are defenders and our defenders try to attack. (separate topic, but its also part of why Voss/Binns never worked - Binns could rack up possessions but seemed lost running defensively).
Both Hollands and Acres have played that defensive wing role. With both of them, when they do, they run a million miles at top speed, are pretty good defensively (it's an underrated strength of Acres imo) and both of them occasionally shank a kick (often when fatigued from running). Ollie is good at the defensive side but doesnt' get involved enough when we have the ball imo, but that's another conversation.
I always figured the shift in Ollie to the backline was more about giving us more attack as a team. Saad is older, Boyd has lost his mojo, Docherty rehabbing a major injury, Newman out for the year; who else was there? Cowan isn't that guy. Carroll too young... so we tried Ollie as the attacking runner off half back and Camporeale (and then Docherty) tried as the defender on the wing. Didn't really work, but was only one of many holes we had last year.
Not sure what other options we had for that spot this year. We were very light on for midfielders so couldn't push back Walsh. Maybe could have tried one of the small forwards, but I think Hollands was legitimately the best option.
Next year, we have a lot more options. Florent is probably the half-back runner alongside Saad, and maybe Ollie as well. Chesser can slot into that wing role, or midfield, etc. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.
Voss has always had his wings push back very hard defensively, probably as much as any team in the league. We have never used our wings particularly well as attacking players on the switch (the Weitering/Ollie/Docherty/Acres goal in the semi-final vs Melbourne was notable because it is so rare for us).
Instead, Voss likes to have his smaller defenders run through the middle using handball chains with the midfield. Think Saad streaking off the backline. Basically, our wings are defenders and our defenders try to attack. (separate topic, but its also part of why Voss/Binns never worked - Binns could rack up possessions but seemed lost running defensively).
Both Hollands and Acres have played that defensive wing role. With both of them, when they do, they run a million miles at top speed, are pretty good defensively (it's an underrated strength of Acres imo) and both of them occasionally shank a kick (often when fatigued from running). Ollie is good at the defensive side but doesnt' get involved enough when we have the ball imo, but that's another conversation.
I always figured the shift in Ollie to the backline was more about giving us more attack as a team. Saad is older, Boyd has lost his mojo, Docherty rehabbing a major injury, Newman out for the year; who else was there? Cowan isn't that guy. Carroll too young... so we tried Ollie as the attacking runner off half back and Camporeale (and then Docherty) tried as the defender on the wing. Didn't really work, but was only one of many holes we had last year.
Not sure what other options we had for that spot this year. We were very light on for midfielders so couldn't push back Walsh. Maybe could have tried one of the small forwards, but I think Hollands was legitimately the best option.
Next year, we have a lot more options. Florent is probably the half-back runner alongside Saad, and maybe Ollie as well. Chesser can slot into that wing role, or midfield, etc. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.
Good post
I am going to assume that a lot of pre season will be sorting out who players where around Wing/HB/HF/Mid and also the best combinations
Our game style will also have a lot to do with it. Who suits best what we are trying to do?
Also, is Voss going to try and build the next gen of players quickly? If so, names like Lucas Wilson Carroll Charleson could be filling a role or two
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Massive achievement. The stats are something like 0.2% chance of making it. In other words if thereās 500 teams you need to be in the best 2 players
BluStreak
Norm Smith Medallist
The wing and HB roles are of interest this coming season as we have players coming in to the team that have proven performances (newman) or new players who have potential.
For me the question will be how we want to play those roles.
For me the question will be how we want to play those roles.
Someone mentioned a bulging disc thatās no joke he has been a warrior for us.
Walsh had a bulging disc pinching a nerve 3 months rehab didnāt fix it needed a microdiscotomy shaving of the spine to give the nerve more room.
Nerve pain is next level I did mine 4weeks ago emergency Codien and heavy drugs couldnāt move in bed MRI cortisone local anthestic shots around the disc no sleep I mean zero head went to some dark places.Doctor said I would need surgery refuted me to neuro surgeon.lve been through 3 physios till I found one I was happy.
My partner found him as he was highly recommended walked in or hobbled in more like it on the wall was Carlton jersey framed.
My partner mentioned that would make me happy asked if he barracked for Carlton said he worked there for 6 years pre COVID.
He had a soft spot for Walsh said he was a great kid was wondering if he could get back to his best.
Like you I said I hope he goes to the wing to give him some longevity.
I said a lot of players must have bulging discs he said yes but if you get them early there manageable.
I just canāt imagine playing a contact sport and risking that amount of pain again completely dehabiilited.
I know there young athletes different to an old tradie like me.
But still bloody hell there tough bunch breed to there own.
So far so good this guy has given me hope and a plan rehab at the Danny Frawley centre the 25 meter lap walking pool exercises stretching 5 times a day regular walks and scar tissue manipulation twice a week.
I sooo wanted to bring a rumour from the Carlton physio
unfortunately he hasnāt kept contact there.I think acres can still contribute but shoulders now back everything will need to go right for him preseason to get his one wood back
JJBagger
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Do fans have minimum standards?Do professional athletes not have minimum standards?.Do you have to have played the game to know which players are at the level and which aren't.
I wonder if Acres can be played elsewhere.
His kicking deteriorated because he has lost pace, often gets caught kicking while being tackled or about to be caught. Come about from him losing pace, opposition sides putting emphasis on run down ability and focusing on leg speed. The competition is getting quicker. He's also not a long kick or a clever kick.
He's a decent kick for goal, can kick short when the pressure is not on, is good overhead, is a good kick for goal, is a smart footballer with a good tank. Can he find a spot on a half forward flank rotating with the wingers?
His kicking deteriorated because he has lost pace, often gets caught kicking while being tackled or about to be caught. Come about from him losing pace, opposition sides putting emphasis on run down ability and focusing on leg speed. The competition is getting quicker. He's also not a long kick or a clever kick.
He's a decent kick for goal, can kick short when the pressure is not on, is good overhead, is a good kick for goal, is a smart footballer with a good tank. Can he find a spot on a half forward flank rotating with the wingers?
Walsh and Cerra were trending as being elite wingmen in the first three years of their careers before being permanently moved onto the ball.
It would work with both of these players however if we take Walsh we out of the middle we go back to having the slowest most immobile onball group in the league and we turn into witches hats and what we see everytime we play Adelaide becomes a more regular thing.
Walsh to me is a poor man's Dangerfield. Good player, powerful, can't kick accurately but can kick long and does so regularly. That's fine.
In an ideal world I would like to move Walsh to a wing, but it hurts us to much. It makes our biggest weakness even bigger. Opens us up to the stronger/quicker sides far too much.
We need to recruit an elite quicker smaller onballer to partner with Walsh in the middle and allow our specialist wingers to develop.
Question is, does Voss' game plan allow for an attacking forward running winger to really develop and impact games? It's one of his coaching holes IMO.
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