List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[TheMcManusNose]

At their list stage they should be using that money to lure emerging young players to the club rather than paying out a generational high contract. They are dangerously close to WC not so long ago, and I struggle to see them pulling off a Cats/Pies style list management scenario.

Who though???

Pickett is only just 24.

You're not getting a much better young player than that.

And if you mean H.Read and ilk then I think there's still quite clearly going to be plenty of room for those kind of offers.

 

[malpaso]

Wonder if Will Setterfield

12

Will Setterfield

Age

27

Ht

192cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

14.0

3star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.1

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

4.4

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

1.4

4star

can be pried out of Essendon. Excellent big body midfielder.

 

[malpaso]

Wonder if Will Setterfield can be pried out of Essendon. Excellent big body midfielder.

Heh heh..

 

[freo84]

Wonder if Will Setterfield can be pried out of Essendon. Excellent big body midfielder.

When he's not injured he goes alright.

 

[David Bubb]

I don't know if I'm imagining things but I recall seeing a little bit on here about Wagner possibly wanting to move back to Vic? I never thought it was likely but as he has become more important I've hoped it wasn't the case. I think this puts it to bed

 

[eastfreo75]

Darcy is not a better ruck then Jackson (at least not anymore) and Jackson is not a better forward then Voss, Jackson is much better on-ball.

We were +11 clearances vs GWS and +5 clearances vs Port when we had Jackson/Voss, we brought Darcy back in and went -7 clearances vs Gold Coast, so I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers from but you are wrong.

Quality of opposition rucks?

 

[malpaso]

Darcy is not a better ruck then Jackson (at least not anymore) and Jackson is not a better forward then Voss, Jackson is much better on-ball.

We were +11 clearances vs GWS and +5 clearances vs Port when we had Jackson/Voss, we brought Darcy back in and went -7 clearances vs Gold Coast, so I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers from but you are wrong.

Keep the opponents in mind during your in-depth analysis..

 

[Purple Suit]

don’t be like that

People change

Money talks

Yep and we no longer have the money to pry loose the 1st, 2nd or 3rd best player from any team as we have seen with Kosi and Warner already.

We should just be happy we got Bolton when we did but it’s not often a club goes for a scorched earth rebuild.

 

[Quazar2]

don’t be like that

People change

Money talks

He's a really good player. He would be a handy acquisition, so it'd be a yes from me.

Sadly, can't see a reality where it happens but would love to have him for sure

 

[Quazar2]

I don't know if I'm imagining things but I recall seeing a little bit on here about Wagner possibly wanting to move back to Vic? I never thought it was likely but as he has become more important I've hoped it wasn't the case. I think this puts it to bed

Love it, he's become an important cog that works hard and can deliver. Been a great run-with role as of late too, nullifying some good players. Maybe tidy up some of his kicking going inside 50, but notice how he's become a dangerous potential goal-kicker around the 50 arc of late. 2 goals might have just spruced up his confidence a tad to apply more offensive threat. Very stoked for him

 

[theGav56]

Who though???

Pickett is only just 24.

You're not getting a much better young player than that.

And if you mean H.Read and ilk then I think there's still quite clearly going to be plenty of room for those kind of offers.

I guess I see their list positioning quite different from how you see them, and think they may be better served following Richmond's lead. List wise they look top heavy with a playing group who are not as productive as they should be and are likely to decline and/or leave.

Right now they look conflicted as a club. If they see the rebuild happening around Pickett, then it makes sense to give him the big contract.

 

[chaosball32]

Keep the opponents in mind during your in-depth analysis..

My comment was only addressing Taylor’s false narrative that without Darcy we get smashed in the clearances and that having Voss in there is an automatic clearance loss, which is clearly not true.

With Jackson/Voss:

vs GWS +11 clearances

vs Port +5 clearances

With Darcy/Jackson:

vs Gold Coast -7 clearances

vs North Melbourne -4 clearances

Maybe you should be quizzing them on their “in-depth analysis” and not me.

 

[gaskin]

My comment was only addressing Taylor’s false narrative that without Darcy we get smashed in the clearances and that having Voss in there is an automatic clearance loss, which is clearly not true.

With Jackson/Voss:

vs GWS +11 clearances

vs Port +5 clearances

With Darcy/Jackson:

vs Gold Coast -7 clearances

vs North Melbourne -4 clearances

Maybe you should be quizzing them on their “in-depth analysis” and not me.

Both GC and Norf have better ruckmen (Xerri is arguably the best in the league this season) and better midfields than GWS and Port.

 

[chaosball32]

Both GC and Norf have better ruckmen (Xerri is arguably the best in the league this season) and better midfields than GWS and Port.

Again, not the point I’m arguing.

But seeing as everyone is so invested in clearances numbers:

Collingwood are 7-6 in clearances this year (same as us) yet they sit top of the ladder 11-2.

Geelong have only won the clearance count in 3 of their 14 games this season, yet they are 2nd on the ladder.

North and Melbourne are actually two of the better clearance teams this year, having both won the clearance count 9 times, yet they are both comfortably bottom 4 teams.

And Taylor initially said that losing clearances costs games, yet we’ve lost the clearance count the last 2 games and still won both.

Maybe this argument that we need to field Darcy so that we can win the clearances (which is apparently crucial to winning games) isn’t true?

 

[tacopavlich]

The more I think of the Kozzy deal the more wild it gets


They have done the complete opposite of what I'd call common sense list management (and what we are doing)

They gave overs ($$) to stay compared to the deal offered by us AND they gave extra years compared to the deal.

Ending up in them giving Massive money AND Massive Security.

We give our players great security in the form of long contracts but in turn they receive less money, give and get.

Dees have given in both areas (and quite generously), its just a shocking contract for the club and I'm bloody glad we aren't doing those kind of things anymore.

Melbourne are probably considering in the next few years when they're not competing for flags they need players like kozzy to have some draw for their crowd attendance, and players that can generate excitement are more valuable assets to them than other clubs. They would have had no reservations of using that money for Jackson for the same reason, so at least that isn't a concern anymore.

 

[Taylor]

And Taylor initially said that losing clearances costs games, yet we’ve lost the clearance count the last 2 games and still won both.

Our game style needs to slow the ball down going inside our defensive fifty to work, when we are beaten at clearances it flies into the defense and we are beaten - that's just the unfortunate percentages of our style, we have to near even the contest or we lose - but if we get right on top we win.

We have kicked a lot of score out of the back half the last month too which may change that.

There's no way to know what happens when an elite ruckman comes up against Voss when we didn't expose Voss to that because we expect him to be beaten so profoundly that the opposition mids walk it out of the centre bounce.

Consider that Saturday night, Xerri gave Jackson a bath and if our next option was an even lesser choice, we wouldn't have won that game.

I'm a firm believer that a big strong ruckman starting the chain of touches leads to better outcomes clearance and then score wise, with the exact opposite in play too - I would like to see Darcy against a teenager in the ruck this week and see him tap it to our mids who are cheating ahead of the footy like the Australian Mids did in the international rules game where Nic Nat was in the ruck, leaping over the Irish and hitting it straight to a guy already at full speed running towards goals.

That's the dream. Reliance on outcomes leads to confidence to get into more dangerous positions. A similar one would be if we have key defenders who always intercept mark, our small defenders will be running to open space earlier and we move the ball faster. Same thing with a dominant tap ruckman, which Darcy is when he is fit.

 

[chaosball32]

I'm a firm believer that a big strong ruckman starting the chain of touches leads to better outcomes clearance and then score wise, with the exact opposite in play too - I would like to see Darcy against a teenager in the ruck this week and see him tap it to our mids who are cheating ahead of the footy like the Australian Mids did in the international rules game where Nic Nat was in the ruck, leaping over the Irish and hitting it straight to a guy already at full speed running towards goals.

That's the dream. Reliance on outcomes leads to confidence to get into more dangerous positions. A similar one would be if we have key defenders who always intercept mark, our small defenders will be running to open space earlier and we move the ball faster. Same thing with a dominant tap ruckman, which Darcy is when he is fit.

And I’m a firm believer that a nowadays a ruckmans role is more then just the ruck battle and to win the hit-outs. The two most dominant tap ruckman you speak of right now would be Gawn and Xerri, Gawn has taken 34 contested marks this season (league high) and Xerri is averaging nearly 6 tackles a game which is leagues above most other ruckman. It’s also why I’m high on Jackson because the guy is so multi-faceted, he can win the hit outs then follow up on the end of the chain going inside 50.

Darcy right now is being used purely as foil for the opposition ruckman. He is essentially a roadblock. He’s not really adding anything else that a ruckman should - you can’t swing him forward or back, he’s not taking marks down the line, he’s not imposing himself physically on the game, etc. It’s worked the last two games (by 11 and 6 points) but I query the sustainability of that going forward.

Surely you would rest Darcy this week and let Jackson go to town on a debutant, and get Darcy right for the Saints game vs Marshall. Or play Darcy this week and rest him for the Saints game seeing as Jackson had a 3 vote game as the sole ruck against Marshall last year. Either or because right now he’s less mobile then he was when he was 20kg heavier, which suggests to me he’s still not fully fit and needs to be managed.

I still maintain the GWS and Port games were the best we looked all year - nothing to do with the quality of opposition, I’m talking purely how we looked structurally, and I’d like to see a bigger sample size of that set-up.

Anyway this is the list management thread and we are getting off-topic and clearly I’m in the minority with my view so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[chaosball32]

I don't know if I'm imagining things but I recall seeing a little bit on here about Wagner possibly wanting to move back to Vic? I never thought it was likely but as he has become more important I've hoped it wasn't the case. I think this puts it to bed

Not gonna lie, I never really rated Wagner as a defender, felt like a budget Jordan Clark to me.

His midfield move has been a revelation, to do the run with role with some of the best in the comp and also be able to impact forward of center himself.

10 years in the system, delisted by 2 clubs, finally got to play his 50th game on the weekend and seems to be a great bloke himself, what a great story.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Not gonna lie, I never really rated Wagner as a defender, felt like a budget Jordan Clark to me.

His midfield move has been a revelation, to do the run with role with some of the best in the comp and also be able to impact forward of center himself.

10 years in the system, delisted by 2 clubs, finally got to play his 50th game on the weekend and seems to be a great bloke himself, what a great story.

Budget Jordan Clarks are not easily come by.
I’ve really rated Corey since his 1st game as a sub for us; came on and made a huge impact.
He is now a best 22 player.
Was he another rookie pick success story for us?

 

[pK75]

Budget Jordan Clarks are not easily come by.
I’ve really rated Corey since his 1st game as a sub for us; came on and made a huge impact.
He is now a best 22 player.
Was he another rookie pick success story for us?

Late national draft pick from memory

 

[Lach72]

I guess I see their list positioning quite different from how you see them, and think they may be better served following Richmond's lead. List wise they look top heavy with a playing group who are not as productive as they should be and are likely to decline and/or leave.

Right now they look conflicted as a club. If they see the rebuild happening around Pickett, then it makes sense to give him the big contract.

I think that’s the way.

Now Pickett is signed, I’d have Petracca and Oliver on the block.
They then build around Pickett, Windsor, Langford and Lindsay

 

[gaskin]

Now Pickett is signed, I’d have Petracca and Oliver on the block.
They then build around Pickett, Windsor, Langford and Lindsay

The issue with that is finding someone willing to both take on the wages even if Melbourne commit to paying some of it and satisfying Melbourne in a trade assuming Melbourne don't just sell them cheap to get the money off their books.

 

[Taylor]

And I’m a firm believer that a nowadays a ruckmans role is more then just the ruck battle and to win the hit-outs. The two most dominant tap ruckman you speak of right now would be Gawn and Xerri, Gawn has taken 34 contested marks this season (league high) and Xerri is averaging nearly 6 tackles a game which is leagues above most other ruckman. It’s also why I’m high on Jackson because the guy is so multi-faceted, he can win the hit outs then follow up on the end of the chain going inside 50.

Darcy right now is being used purely as foil for the opposition ruckman. He is essentially a roadblock. He’s not really adding anything else that a ruckman should - you can’t swing him forward or back, he’s not taking marks down the line, he’s not imposing himself physically on the game, etc. It’s worked the last two games (by 11 and 6 points) but I query the sustainability of that going forward.

Surely you would rest Darcy this week and let Jackson go to town on a debutant, and get Darcy right for the Saints game vs Marshall. Or play Darcy this week and rest him for the Saints game seeing as Jackson had a 3 vote game as the sole ruck against Marshall last year. Either or because right now he’s less mobile then he was when he was 20kg heavier, which suggests to me he’s still not fully fit and needs to be managed.

I still maintain the GWS and Port games were the best we looked all year - nothing to do with the quality of opposition, I’m talking purely how we looked structurally, and I’d like to see a bigger sample size of that set-up.

Anyway this is the list management thread and we are getting off-topic and clearly I’m in the minority with my view so I’ll leave it at that.

I don't have a huge amount of time to answer this will the full effort it deserves but there's certainly more to ruck than taps, but that's where the game begins. Xerri is rated so highly not because he tackles but because he clears it himself. Sandi did this too. Darcy does this when fit too.

 

[WilloTree]

Late national draft pick from memory

Pick 57

 

[WilloTree]

My thoughts on Erasmus..

If some of the numbers floating around regarding offers from West Coast are even remotely true he's gone. They'll be paying him close to $1m more to do the same job in the same city. Who's knocking that back?

I like Raz and was really pleased he was finally gettting his run at it in the 1sts. However, when Young comes back into the team, he's probably going to end up back in the WAFL anyway.

Long term, I'm not concerened as we have Whan (2025) and Robinson (2026) coming in from our NGA, who are both midfielders. Robinson is a particularly exiting prospect. I also expect Reid will graduate into a genuine for/mid.