2025 Non AFL Attendance, TV, Finance etc

[threenewpadlocks]

Not exactly sure the political capital spent to get it in the main fox broadcast for it while still running at a financial loss is worth it for the NRL.

The most honest V'Landys has been is to say that they've otherwise previously invested a lot into "launching" the season and the fact that Vegas runs at a small loss is a comparable cost for a bigger buzz. But all the talk about any genuine growth, revenue or interest in the US itself is a load of tosh. It won't happen.

 

[Cmarsh]

Not exactly sure the political capital spent to get it in the main fox broadcast for it while still running at a financial loss is worth it for the NRL.

The most honest V'Landys has been is to say that they've otherwise previously invested a lot into "launching" the season and the fact that Vegas runs at a small loss is a comparable cost for a bigger buzz. But all the talk about any genuine growth, revenue or interest in the US itself is a load of tosh. It won't happen.

The US ratings figures do seem substatially more than last year though. From what I remember last year they were below 100k. Although I'm not sure if last year it was on the main fox channel over there. I do wonder as well if this years figure is actually significant being on the main fox channel. Maybe people just having the tv on in the background not actively watching perhaps.

 

[Outtatym]

Vegas is great for a trip.
Beats China.

Also, that new stadium there is elite and perfect size to convert to Rugby League. Great viewing for fans.

Pretty much the only reason for the whole thing. Boyz trip
Growing the game my ass

 

[2 eazy]

What? Australia?

There are four AFL teams in NSW and Qld.

Our heartland is Vic wa and sa not Northern states

 

[The Educator]

The figures from the UK might be interesting with the women's international involving England and the Wigan v Warrington game.

Haha "interesting"?

479,000 was the combined (BBC plus Sky) average audience for the 2023 english super league grandfinal

Rugby League is pretty much a niche sport in England now. Probably why the women's international was a joke contest

Pretty confident not many people watched in the UK

 

[The Educator]

Interesting to see the WA premier rule out any funding for a proposed WA NRL team. They've had a bit of bad publicity from this in the last couple of weeks and I suspect they've run some internal polling that says it's a vote loser.

The NRL should have locked in a team when they had a chance rather than play hard ball.....always a massive chance an election would snuff out the prospect after it had been laid out on the table

 

[The Educator]

Not exactly sure the political capital spent to get it in the main fox broadcast for it while still running at a financial loss is worth it for the NRL.

The most honest V'Landys has been is to say that they've otherwise previously invested a lot into "launching" the season and the fact that Vegas runs at a small loss is a comparable cost for a bigger buzz. But all the talk about any genuine growth, revenue or interest in the US itself is a load of tosh. It won't happen.

It could just be that I completely don't understand rugby league culture but I just cannot understand how this can still be producing a "buzz" for the start of the season in 2 or 3 years

Must be the only pro sport on the planet where kicking it off on the other side of the planet can actually create a buzz back home, let-alone sustain it over several years.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It could just be that I completely don't understand rugby league culture but I just cannot understand how this can still be producing a "buzz" for the start of the season in 2 or 3 years

Must be the only pro sport on the planet where kicking it off on the other side of the planet can actually create a buzz back home, let-alone sustain it over several years.

I'm sure it does create a buzz but it's the opportunity cost. The amount of effort put towards it in literally any other initiave would also crate 'buzz'. Opening round for the AFL despite the fan complains has been a success by an engagement metric, but with far less HQ capital and effort spent toward it.

 

[Rob]

The NRL should have locked in a team when they had a chance rather than play hard ball.....always a massive chance an election would snuff out the prospect after it had been laid out on the table

Probably, but it depends what the deal was. Up until a few weeks ago I had no idea the state had any intention to fund any part of the team (and why would they, it doesn't really provide much benefit to WA). If the NRL actually turned down a deal that included direct government subsidies then yeah, idiotic move.

 

[Philhawk]

The amount of people discounting Vegas is laughable. It went from 61k on TV in year 1, to 360k in year 2. Add to that the plethora of free earned media it generated for the code everywhere (I noticed even the AFL media covering it substantially (see Whateley, Lyon and co) - and you’ve got a fast growing product.

I think the key here is that with the deal with DAZN coming up, all these metrics will only help the NRL in their negotiations. The AFL needs to start thinking bigger.

 

[Diogenes]

The Super League game between Wigan and Warrington in Vegas set Rugby League records for both Sky and BBC;
Edit: on further reading the BBC record was for Wakefield vs St Helens earlier during the day

Las Vegas Super League game sets Sky Sports record viewing figures

The historic Super League clash between Wigan Warriors and Warrington Wolves in Las Vegas yielded the highest-ever peak for a regular-season fixture.

www.loverugbyleague.com

 

[Diogenes]

Haha "interesting"?

479,000 was the combined (BBC plus Sky) average audience for the 2023 english super league grandfinal

Rugby League is pretty much a niche sport in England now. Probably why the women's international was a joke contest

Pretty confident not many people watched in the UK

“Pretty much a niche sport now”. It has always been a niche sport and apparently unable to escape its social origins in 130 years due to lack of funds and conservative leadership.
V’Landys has floated the idea of NRL buying and managing the Super League. Something like that is required to expand its range.
A recent report of V'Landys' ideas - expanding the game has to be through the international portal and that requires a stronger England.

NRL reveal interest in buying Super League with huge admission made

ARL Commission boss Peter V’landys has said they are openly 'looking' at potential involvements with running rugby league in the UK.

www.loverugbyleague.com

 

[Diogenes]

More than 550K watched Raiders v Warriors in New Zealand
(there was speculation that this game rather than the popular Sharks vs Panffers was put on during the US FTA time slot to ensure the Warriors were on during a reasonable time in NZ)
I am sure someone will add all these numbers up together in some way and come to >3M.

https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1897405350627975483%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=&screen_name=BradWalterSport

 

[justlookingaround]

It seems the NRL's goal is to try and build an audience over a period of 5-10 years with the aim of securing a lucrative international TV rights deal after demonstrating growth.

In my view, international sports will never be anything more than a novelty for the average American outside of soccer, which has a relatively small but devoted fanbase, especially in Women's soccer.

But Rugby does not have that same grassroots foundation as soccer, and it is effectively being sold as a spectacle for NFL's offseason, but no US NFL alternative league has ever worked out. They are spoilt for choice when it comes to sport in the US.

It may register as a blip, but I don't expect it to attain long term growth, the AFL wouldn't do any better and is probably worse-placed than the NRL to have an impact in the US market.

It's always a bit of a shock how insular Americans are. Australians have this tendency to believe we do everything better and everywhere else would be blown away by our stuff if they only knew about it. The reality is Americans don't care, they are the whole world to themselves.

 

[The_Wookie]

The amount of people discounting Vegas is laughable. It went from 61k on TV in year 1, to 360k in year 2. Add to that the plethora of free earned media it generated for the code everywhere (I noticed even the AFL media covering it substantially (see Whateley, Lyon and co) - and you’ve got a fast growing product.

I think the key here is that with the deal with DAZN coming up, all these metrics will only help the NRL in their negotiations. The AFL needs to start thinking bigger.

Shifting from cable to broadcast was a big boost

 

[The_Wookie]

To Summarise:

The day was attended by an offical figure of 45,209, up on 2023s official figure.

The NRL says more than three million viewers in the United States, Australia and New Zealand tuned into the opening two matches of the NRL season at Allegiant Stadium, as new broadcast records were set across the game.

The FTA broadcast averaged 715,000 with a BVOD audience of 81,000 and a reach of 1.627m. This is down 11% from 796,000 (808,000 cons) in 2024 (reach also down from 1.644m). 353,000 watched the womens test on Nine.

Foxtel reported Sunday 2 March was the most streamed day ever for the channel with 144 million minutes streamed.

• the Jillaroos achieving their biggest audience ever across Foxtel and Kayo Sports in their victory over the Lionesses
• The Wigan Warriors v Warrington Wolves game also soared to the top of the most watched Super League game of all time across Foxtel and Kayo Sports
• The Penrith Panthers v Cronulla Sharks game was the most-watched game over the weekend, with the game also being the most watched regular season Panthers game ever across Foxtel Group

The NRL reports that viewership in the US increased by more than 600 per cent on the 2024 season opener. Newly shown into primetime on linear television, Nielson reported 371,000 total viewers in the US for the Raiders/Warriors game, and 54,000 for the womens international clash on cable.

The Panthers-Sharks match outperformed average viewership on FS1 in 2024 by more than 100%, with 33,000 viewers comparted to 16,000 for last year’s Roosters-Broncos fixture.

In NZ, SkyNZ reported that Warriors fans tuned in in huge numbers for their initial game, with 402k people watching the Raiders v Warriors match from Las Vegas on Sky and free-to-air on Sky Open. A further 91k watched on Sky Go and 64k on Sky Sport Now.

The match was broadcast at 1pm NZT. In comparison, last year’s Vegas double-header drew a combined viewership of 159K (+93%).

In the UK, Wigan versus Warrington peaked at 340,000 viewers at one stage during the broadcast. Only one Super League regular season game – during the pandemic, when supporters were not allowed inside stadia – has attracted a bigger number in the competition’s 30-year history.

 

[The Educator]

It seems the NRL's goal is to try and build an audience over a period of 5-10 years with the aim of securing a lucrative international TV rights deal after demonstrating growth.

In my view, international sports will never be anything more than a novelty for the average American outside of soccer, which has a relatively small but devoted fanbase, especially in Women's soccer.

But Rugby does not have that same grassroots foundation as soccer, and it is effectively being sold as a spectacle for NFL's offseason, but no US NFL alternative league has ever worked out. They are spoilt for choice when it comes to sport in the US.

It may register as a blip, but I don't expect it to attain long term growth, the AFL wouldn't do any better and is probably worse-placed than the NRL to have an impact in the US market.

It's always a bit of a shock how insular Americans are. Australians have this tendency to believe we do everything better and everywhere else would be blown away by our stuff if they only knew about it. The reality is Americans don't care, they are the whole world to themselves.

Disagree with the bolded.

The AFL is a more distinct game and, given it still plays games in the early afternoon, can put games on during the quasi-primetime on the West Coast. Not to mention, as its games finish up to an hour after the NRL night games, it can also provide marginally more engagement on the east coast.

Google trends data suggests it is twice as popular already

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F0ckh09,%2Fm%2F01lwy5&hl=en

More generally, you are dead right that the actual revenue on offer, even if there was considerable engagement, is actually very modest.

Has a benchmark, the EPL rights are worth $US450M a year. The bulk of games are in prime time on the east coast of the US. This is almost double what the Major League Soccer rights are worth at $250M a year.

The problem is, without a critical mass, it is extremely difficult to monetise modest amounts of interest. Likewise with gambling, even if a large number of problem gamblers started betting on the NRL over night, how would the NRL be able to extract income from this?

 

[The Educator]

More than 550K watched Raiders v Warriors in New Zealand
(there was speculation that this game rather than the popular Sharks vs Panffers was put on during the US FTA time slot to ensure the Warriors were on during a reasonable time in NZ)
I am sure someone will add all these numbers up together in some way and come to >3M.

https://x.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1897405350627975483%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=&screen_name=BradWalterSport

...or they will further reduce the $3M which has no official status

 

[Diogenes]

...or they will further reduce the $3M which has no official status

What $3m?

 

[The Educator]

What $3m?

The $3M you were referring to.....I.e some dubious claim either directly or indirectly from VLandys mouth that that is all Vegas is costing them

 

[Diogenes]

The 3m is the TV audience claimed by PVL, of which Wookie gives the details
No mention of $3M

 

[2 eazy]

They apparently made a small profit and the Vegas Toursim wants them to extend their deal looks like it will continue. Guess long term goal is to get 0.5% subscribe to their streaming service. Which is possible in the future. AFL should try do something in London

 

[2 eazy]

Disagree with the bolded.

The AFL is a more distinct game and, given it still plays games in the early afternoon, can put games on during the quasi-primetime on the West Coast. Not to mention, as its games finish up to an hour after the NRL night games, it can also provide marginally more engagement on the east coast.

Google trends data suggests it is twice as popular already

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F0ckh09,%2Fm%2F01lwy5&hl=en

More generally, you are dead right that the actual revenue on offer, even if there was considerable engagement, is actually very modest.

Has a benchmark, the EPL rights are worth $US450M a year. The bulk of games are in prime time on the east coast of the US. This is almost double what the Major League Soccer rights are worth at $250M a year.

The problem is, without a critical mass, it is extremely difficult to monetise modest amounts of interest. Likewise with gambling, even if a large number of problem gamblers started betting on the NRL over night, how would the NRL be able to extract income from this?

In reality there isn't a suitable stadium to host an afl game in America hence we should look at UK or India

 

[Aussie in exile]

They apparently made a small profit and the Vegas Toursim wants them to extend their deal looks like it will continue. Guess long term goal is to get 0.5% subscribe to their streaming service. Which is possible in the future. AFL should try do something in London

Our winter is there summer so zero chance of getting a regular season game there on any worthwhile cricket grounds.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm still yet to understand how NRL games being played in the middle of the night, mid-week on Thursday and Fridays at 4am in America is of any financial value in any method or circumstance to Americans, if it's gambling, streaming, broadcasting, or whatever.