List Mgmt. 2025 Premiership(s) List Making and Trading

[WaynesWorld19]

There's tons of evidence, including Brisbane yesterday with Levi Ashcroft

Even we have done it! For some reason we saw Rachele and went yep, let's play that guy as much as possible in his best position, but then for Draper went "nah, that guy should only be the sub"

You do realise, Draper only completed approx 20% of pre-season due to injury recovery .....he's had some reoccurring injuries leading up to the Draft

Why bust the young man early in his career

 

[Danger in Texas]

Draper doesn't need to work on his game any more than other elite picks. He's a bonafide star player who was excellent at junior level and has a boatload of strengths. This idea he's a flawed project player that needs tinkering with in the SANFL is wrong.

And if it was true, why the **** did we take him at pick 4?

Look at the competition's star midfielders. How many of them were top picks (so not project players) and were developed through the reserves?

Just from the last few years All Australian teams
Smith - no
McCluggage - no
Serong - no
Rowell - no
Anderson - no
Daicos - no
Bontempelli - no
Richards - no
NWM - no
Heeney - not really
Bailey - 12 full games first year
Gulden - no
Butters - no
Cripps - yes, but played 20 in year 2
Treloar - no
Rozee - no
Merrett - no
Petracca - no
Oliver - 13 full games first year
Mills - no
Brayshaw - no
Walsh - no
Wines - no
Macrae - 13 full games first year
Parish - no
Adams - no
Boak - no
Dangerfield - not really because of school

There has to be something to this. It's a clear, overwhelming pattern

This might be a worrying thing to mention, but did any of those players look lost a good amount of the time at AFL level in their first year, like Draper did?

 

[Scorpus]

You do realise, Draper only completed approx 20% of pre-season due to injury recovery .....he's had some reoccurring injuries leading up to the Draft

Why bust the young man early in his career

Look, this might have some merit, but I think it's dubious given he played most games. 14 reserves matches, most of which are full games

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Where are the examples of the best players being developed in the reserves? It doesn't happen unless you're a late project pick like Dawson

Rubbish ......remember, you're post is referencing MIDS ......KPP are even less likely to play AFL early ...Jed Walters and Ethan Read, both highly regarded players, are still just bit players after spending a lot of time playing reserves

I'll repeat, you're taking a couple of exceptions and correlating that to "most top mids" .....in fact, most if played early are normally taking up a HBF or HFF

 

[jackster83]

You do realise, Draper only completed approx 20% of pre-season due to injury recovery .....he's had some reoccurring injuries leading up to the Draft

Why bust the young man early in his career

Lol, if you are going to make shit up, at least pick a number that is believable.

 

[Scorpus]

This might be a worrying thing to mention, but did any of those players look lost a good amount of the time at AFL level in their first year, like Draper did?

There is of course the possibility that Draper hasn't been given games at AFL level because he's actually a spud or, being more generous, not elite

Those are really the two options though. Either he is elite, in which case he should have played maximum games at AFL like the majority of other elite players. Or he isn't, in which case our strategy is justified but means we've blown a pick

 

[Danger in Texas]

Rubbish ......remember, you're post is referencing MIDS ......KPP are even less likely to play AFL early ...Jed Walters and Ethan Read, both highly regarded players, are still just bit players after spending a lot of time playing reserves

I'll repeat, you're taking a couple of exceptions and correlating that to "most top mids" .....in fact, most if played early are normally taking up a HBF or HFF

Last time I checked, Draper isn’t a KPP

 

[Scorpus]

Rubbish ......remember, you're post is referencing MIDS ......KPP are even less likely to play AFL early ...Jed Walters and Ethan Read, both highly regarded players, are still just bit players after spending a lot of time playing reserves

I'll repeat, you're taking a couple of exceptions and correlating that to "most top mids" .....in fact, most if played early are normally taking up a HBF or HFF

I'm looking at the evidence. The evidence clearly shows the top mids play AFL from the start.

Yeah sure they might be played at half back or whatever. That's better than in the reserves. The best clubs find a role to develop stars in the AFL and to get them to flourish that way

 

[WaynesWorld19]

So you're saying it's one size fits all, every player needs to be developed the same way?

Huh, I always thought coaching and player development was more complicated than that, but sure.

It is ....hence why Clubs are spending so much money on development resources

It appears the solution is easy ....just chuck every player in the AFL team ....hang-on, if I add all these players to the senior team, do any senior players have to come out ......and is selection integrity actually a thing

 

[bettingonbetts]

FYI
McVee who we were rumoured to be interested in has nominated Freo as the club to be traded to
Damn

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm looking at the evidence. The evidence clearly shows the top mids play AFL from the start.

Yeah sure they might be played at half back or whatever. That's better than in the reserves. The best clubs find a role to develop stars in the AFL and to get them to flourish that way

Mmm .....is that why Jhye Clark, Knevitt, and Bruhn have struggled to get AFL games ....and also why Jordan Clark exited GEEL for FREO

GEEL are more closely aligned to us .....they believe in VFL apprenticeships, and generally prefer experience to inexperience

You can respond with GEEL cases that fit your POV

 

[WaynesWorld19]

FYI
McVee who we were rumoured to be interested in has nominated Freo as the club to be traded to
Damn

We were never into McVee .....draft for class, trade for need ....we didn't need another DEF

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Lol, if you are going to make shit up, at least pick a number that is believable.

Did you go to PS sessions .....because I did

Now who's making **** up ....so what % was it, given your viewing of PS training

 

[BunjiMac]

We were never into McVee .....draft for class, trade for need ....we didn't need another DEF

But is that actually what we do? Draft for class? I'd argue we draft for consistency in reality

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It's interesting that those posters who troll laughing emoji's .....are the same posters who actually add nothing to discussions....or have any refuting evidence, or even a rational POV

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So you're saying it's one size fits all, every player needs to be developed the same way?

Huh, I always thought coaching and player development was more complicated than that, but sure.

Should we stick with our current, long-established practices?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

But is that actually what we do? Draft for class? I'd argue we draft for consistency in reality

I get the cynicism in your post .....but realistically we Draft for best available in the position of need

Anyone who thinks we draft best available all the time, is not following closely .....certainly not in a rebuilding side

We're actually quite good at identifying MID or Tall Drafts and drafting accordingly

 

[1990crow]

FYI
McVee who we were rumoured to be interested in has nominated Freo as the club to be traded to
Damn

I don't think he suited our needs.

 

[1970crow]

Seriously?

This is why we are a rung below, "players in the SANFL have to earn a spot with repeated BOGs and then need a role opening up."

Good teams get them in, see how they go at a tier above because that is the defining reason they should be continuing. We all saw Murphy is a tier below AFL, got to see it over 100 times and even though we were going to delist him...and Nicks is on that committee, we played Murphy.

I'd go as far as to say Cooks effort against Hawthorn when he was the invisible man, on the back of a dozen games the year before should have him at the back of the line.

Good teams get their youngsters in on the back of a decent game and give them a few games to see how they go. We don't and even worse, we play our number 4 draft pick as a sub for 2 months and then banish him. The difference between Draper in the first trial match to the last game is an indictment on the midfield coach and the club that spends soft cap dollars employing him.

Our major problem is that when opportunity does present, we revert to experienced crabs like Murphy or past it players like Smith. Pyke did the same thing in 2019 when striving for wins to get into finals. Dougie came back from the SANFL and Sauce reclaimed number 1 ruck status. There’s no present or future in that selection philosophy. You’re deliberately limiting your current ceiling and simultaneously being contra-development. It’s fear, fear drives our club. Blight had dare, since him the club has been Neil Craiged and conservatism is the driving force.

 

[BunjiMac]

I get the cynicism in your post .....but realistically we Draft for best available in the position of need

Anyone who thinks we draft best available all the time, is not following closely .....certainly not in a rebuilding side

We're actually quite good at identifying MID or Tall Drafts and drafting accordingly

That's not class though.

When you say someone is a really classy player, that means something.

Best available is who scores best on the rubrik that you use to measure. I think our way of measuring leans heavily into consistency, over class and potential top end ceiling.

That was all I was saying and wasn't trying to be cynical, more factual.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This might be a worrying thing to mention, but did any of those players look lost a good amount of the time at AFL level in their first year, like Draper did?

He didn't look lost when he started. Quite the opposite

As the season wore on, the worse he looked which is the worrying thing to me.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I don't think he suited our needs.

He'd be a fantastic fit imho but internally we see Milera and Laird as half back lock options next season and beyond so McVee wouldn't have realistically been on our radar

 

[1970crow]

For starters, the SANFL coach just has to be told that no matter what, we are going to blood our younger players in their preferred positions and stop trying to fit round pegs into square holes. No more top up players taking time from the young mids in the guts...so when they get a call up, they would be used to playing as centre square mids.

A couple of years ago we were using SANFL performance as evidence that our AFL development was on track. The club is far too focussed on the points available each weekend to have rebuilt properly. We’ve got about half our best 22 that we need to improve upon but the club has zero appetite to do so. We’d rather guarantee to be competing around 5-8 than risk dropping a couple spots to unearth a better player.

 

[BunjiMac]

He didn't look lost when he started. Quite the opposite

As the season wore on, the worse he looked which is the worrying thing to me.

When people don't feel believed in, they often lose confidence and belief themselves. They question their ability which shows on field in their performances.

I think this is actually the hardest thing to regain for a player and can destroy careers.

They often come into the system full of confidence and belief and when this is flipped on its head, it can destroy the most talented of players.

 

[Amacca 23]

He'd be a fantastic fit imho but internally we see Milera and Laird as half back lock options next season and beyond so McVee wouldn't have realistically been on our radar

Plus we still have edwards and ryan waiting in the wings