List Mgmt. 2025 Premiership(s) List Making and Trading

[1990crow]

Football isn’t rocket science. If a youngster is recruited as a midfielder play him in the midfield in the SANFL not some spud who is going to get delisted.

It's actually amazing we actually have to discuss this. WTF was the club doing in the twos this year.. hopeless.

 

[Mostyn]

Edwards is the one we haven’t developed. He hasn’t played a game. He’s a big bodied mid we drafted surely to play midfield and we’re playing him at HB in SANFL. He should have been tried by now. Even just a sub game or 2. Something. I was hoping we were trying to get a defensive mindset into his game before giving him a full time midfield role, but we haven’t and now we’ve just made him another pretty average HBF. If I was him I’d be looking for a trade. He’s one season from the the scrap heap.

I get why you feel that way, but playing games before you're 20 isn't the main way to measure whether a player is developing.

IF you are right and they want Edwards to be a big bodied mid - then he needs time. He's not that yet because he still has a kid's body. He wasn't primarily inside as a junior I don't think - and developing kids initially as half backs is done constantly in the AFL.

I think next year is the year we should be seeing more from him. Let's wait til then

 

[Mostyn]

Taylor was pick 44...not a first rounder

Jones was played wing for a lot of his 90 odd games...but agree, he hasn't developed

Jones really seemed to have found his role before his foot injury. He's never quite gotten back to that level.

 

[Mostyn]

True, the club has been really excellent over the last 25 years hasn't it.

Well, we were in the mix for flags in the mid 2000s, in the early 2010s and then again in 2017, and this year we were one of the better sides in the comp.

We struggled while rebuilding, exactly as everyone expected us to. Now we seem to have a strong and positive squad that's missing a couple of pieces.

I think the "woe is me" is overstated. We've mostly been an okay second-tier club, with a few who have been better than us. Hopefully we'll now use our advantages in the way we should have the last 15 years and haven't.

 

[Crow till I die]

Jones really seemed to have found his role before his foot injury. He's never quite gotten back to that level.

Imagine round 1 next year, our SANFL centre square is McAndrew, Taylor and Edwards with Dowling named as centreman. I am just using that as the example but its whoever of our mids that miss AFL selection.

Then use that as the primary midfield and then chop out with others as needed. Simple stuff

 

[Scorpus]

Why haven't we developed Draper?

He's had the same path that developed Curtin and Worrell. Why is it that most good clubs - Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn - get congratulated for how they develop players through the VFL, but were doing something wrong?

I'm not sure there's much evidence of success with the North model of rushing high picks in, whether they're ready or not.

There's tons of evidence, including Brisbane yesterday with Levi Ashcroft

Even we have done it! For some reason we saw Rachele and went yep, let's play that guy as much as possible in his best position, but then for Draper went "nah, that guy should only be the sub"

 

[Mostyn]

Great that we put so many games into Murphy and Boyle in our SANFL midfield. We sure know how to develop players....

The priority is improving Edwards. That isn't just by chucking him in the midfield and saying work it out for yourself. He's being developed by learning roles and having the game in front of him, with his midfield time increasing as his body and game knowledge develops.

Look, I get the frustration, I just think it's overstated.

 

[Mostyn]

There's tons of evidence, including Brisbane yesterday with Levi Ashcroft

Even we have done it! For some reason we saw Rachele and went yep, let's play that guy as much as possible in his best position, but then for Draper went "nah, that guy should only be the sub"

So you're saying it's one size fits all, every player needs to be developed the same way?

Huh, I always thought coaching and player development was more complicated than that, but sure.

 

[Mostyn]

Dyson Sharp or Sam Cumming is who we need to draft for our midfield.

If we were to get Oliver what would that cost pick wise roughly?

We won't get near either of them.

 

[Crow till I die]

The priority is improving Edwards. That isn't just by chucking him in the midfield and saying work it out for yourself. He's being developed by learning roles and having the game in front of him, with his midfield time increasing as his body and game knowledge develops.

Look, I get the frustration, I just think it's overstated.

Like playing fogarty at full back?

 

[Mostyn]

Football isn’t rocket science. If a youngster is recruited as a midfielder play him in the midfield in the SANFL not some spud who is going to get delisted.

If it was actually that easy, every person in the outer would be an AFL coach.

Playing midfield seems much more complicated than that in the AFL. Not every teenager will be immediately ready and fully developed for the role.

 

[Scorpus]

So you're saying it's one size fits all, every player needs to be developed the same way?

Huh, I always thought coaching and player development was more complicated than that, but sure.

I think for the vast majority of top end talent the evidence shows the most successful way to develop players is playing AFL football

Of course there is some variance for certain types. Project players, ruckmen, key position, etc. Later picks with flaws in their game will not be a walk up start

A top 5 midfielder though? The vast majority of the best midfielders played a lot of games early. Pick any club's top talent, the best players in the league, and you'll see very little reserves football.

Draper's form unequivocally got worse across the season. That's not development

 

[Mostyn]

Like playing fogarty at full back?

Or playing Tex in the SANFL or Worrell for a bunch of games. You learn focusing on developing your weaknesses in the lower leagues.

Did it help Fogarty playing other roles in the SANFL? Hard to know - he is a much better footballer now than then, that's clear. Hard to know what contributed to that.

 

[Crow till I die]

If it was actually that easy, every person in the outer would be an AFL coach.

Playing midfield seems much more complicated than that in the AFL. Not every teenager will be immediately ready and fully developed for the role.

You do realise it does not matter hypothetically if the SANFL side came last if along the way the young mids were playing midfield learning their trade and getting ready for the step up to the first team in their prefeered position. If one or 2 of them really shine, much more likely they will make it then in the AFL system when asked to play their preferred position

 

[GreyCrow]

So you're saying it's one size fits all, every player needs to be developed the same way?

Huh, I always thought coaching and player development was more complicated than that, but sure.

Its actually not

At any level you throw them in at a position ie BF or forward flank and give them a run in the middle at the end of each quarter

You then talk to them and ask them valuable questions and ask them to add a minute to their time in the middle and so on

Always talking always encouraging and never limiting

 

[Mostyn]

I think for the vast majority of top end talent the evidence shows the most successful way to develop players is playing AFL football

Of course there is some variance for certain types. Project players, ruckmen, key position, etc. Later picks with flaws in their game will not be a walk up start

A top 5 midfielder though? The vast majority of the best midfielders played a lot of games early. Pick any club's top talent, the best players in the league, and you'll see very little reserves football.

Most early picks are being taken by terrible clubs.

Many are being rushed and a reasonable number don't have the career they should.

And some are prodigies.

I think the fact that Draper needs to work on his game is pretty obvious. I don't think it's a terrible idea to do that in his first year in the SANFL. Hopefully with a full preseason, he has exactly the same path as Curtin - a year largely in the seconds before being ready in year two

 

[Mostyn]

You do realise it does not matter hypothetically if the SANFL side came last if along the way the young mids were playing midfield learning their trade and getting ready for the step up to the first team in their prefeered position. If one or 2 of them really shine, much more likely they will make it then in the AFL system when asked to play their preferred position

I don't care if the SANFL comes last, as long as we're developing AFL players.

If developing midfielders via a couple of years at half back is the best way to do it - like we did with Ricciuto, McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin, etc - then that seems fine.

I want Charlie Edwards to have a role where he can contribute at AFL level and I hope him and the club find that

 

[GreyCrow]

I don't care if the SANFL comes last, as long as we're developing AFL players.

If developing midfielders via a couple of years at half back is the best way to do it - like we did with Ricciuto, McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin, etc - then that seems fine.

I want Charlie Edwards to have a role where he can contribute at AFL level and I hope him and the club find that

IN THE AFL

 

[BunjiMac]

I think we can look at other successful teams renowned for developing young players for ideas.

And although I get its a completely different sport I think we can learn locally from Adelaide United who I think are actually world class at developing and bringing on young talent.

I don't know exactly how they do it, but I remember reading about 2 key philosophies they have.

1. Being crystal clear on the head coaches junior development philosophy and making sure opportunities are structured and carved out for them.

2. Really encouraging and allowing the youth to express themselves the best they can and bring out there strengths.

I believe the 2nd part had a lot to do with a Brazillian coach that ran alot of the junior programs, who have individual expression as core to their footballing philosophy.

Seems simple and different sport but I think we could benefit greatly from adopting both that philosophies, especially given the incredible success of United and young players.

Edit: just found this link which backs up point 1.

United Development Puts the Club Among the World's Best

The Club is proud to announce that Adelaide United has been recognised globally for its commitment to youth development

adelaideunited.com.au

They intentionally create opportunities for their young players and it works.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think for the vast majority of top end talent the evidence shows the most successful way to develop players is playing AFL football

Of course there is some variance for certain types. Project players, ruckmen, key position, etc. Later picks with flaws in their game will not be a walk up start

A top 5 midfielder though? The vast majority of the best midfielders played a lot of games early. Pick any club's top talent, the best players in the league, and you'll see very little reserves football.

Draper's form unequivocally got worse across the season. That's not development

I think a few players, playing well early at AFL, have skewed your perspective ....they're the exceptions, not the rule

Bottom teams tend to trot their top draft picks out, more for membership sales, and to sooth savage supporters, via providing hope

Not many, who do play early, play in their preferred midfield role ....

 

[jackster83]

I don't care if the SANFL comes last, as long as we're developing AFL players.

If developing midfielders via a couple of years at half back is the best way to do it - like we did with Ricciuto, McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin, etc - then that seems fine.

I want Charlie Edwards to have a role where he can contribute at AFL level and I hope him and the club find that

Except we use half back for the failed midfielders we can't bear to drop.

Doughty, Reilly, VB, Mackay, Milera, Laird, etc.

We'll continue to suck at player development all the while we cling to Neil Craig era philosophies.

 

[Scorpus]

Most early picks are being taken by terrible clubs.

Many are being rushed and a reasonable number don't have the career they should.

And some are prodigies.

I think the fact that Draper needs to work on his game is pretty obvious. I don't think it's a terrible idea to do that in his first year in the SANFL. Hopefully with a full preseason, he has exactly the same path as Curtin - a year largely in the seconds before being ready in year two

Draper doesn't need to work on his game any more than other elite picks. He's a bonafide star player who was excellent at junior level and has a boatload of strengths. This idea he's a flawed project player that needs tinkering with in the SANFL is wrong.

And if it was true, why the **** did we take him at pick 4?

Look at the competition's star midfielders. How many of them were top picks (so not project players) and were developed through the reserves?

Just from the last few years All Australian teams
Smith - no
McCluggage - no
Serong - no
Rowell - no
Anderson - no
Daicos - no
Bontempelli - no
Richards - no
NWM - no
Heeney - not really
Bailey - 12 full games first year
Gulden - no
Butters - no
Cripps - yes, but played 20 in year 2
Treloar - no
Rozee - no
Merrett - no
Petracca - no
Oliver - 13 full games first year
Mills - no
Brayshaw - no
Walsh - no
Wines - no
Macrae - 13 full games first year
Parish - no
Adams - no
Boak - no
Dangerfield - not really because of school

There has to be something to this. It's a clear, overwhelming pattern

 

[Scorpus]

I think a few players, playing well early at AFL, have skewed your perspective ....they're the exceptions, not the rule

Bottom teams tend to trot their top draft picks out, more for membership sales, and to sooth savage supporters, via providing hope

Not many, who do play early, play in their preferred midfield role ....

They are not the exception. The best players play mostly AFL early. It's a fact.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

A top 5 midfielder though? The vast majority of the best midfielders played a lot of games early. Pick any club's top talent, the best players in the league, and you'll see very little reserves football

Zane Duursma, Travaglia, Leo Lombard, Bo Allan, Ryley Sanders, Tholstrup ......

 

[Scorpus]

Zane Duursma, Travaglia, Leo Lombard, Bo Allan, Ryley Sanders, Tholstrup ......

A top 5 midfielder though? The vast majority of the best midfielders played a lot of games early. Pick any club's top talent, the best players in the league, and you'll see very little reserves football.

Where are the examples of the best players being developed in the reserves? It doesn't happen unless you're a late project pick like Dawson