Autopsy 2025 Rd 4 Blues to petition AFL to halve the length of games

[Beyond Blue]

Surely this game should indicate to the MC that our game plan is not suited to the current game and change is needed.

Wet weather where contested footy is king and we were still beaten in clearances, let alone general play.

The Hawthorn/Adelaide run/spread to make the ground seem big with the ball (there's been some footage that show how these teams spread with the ball and most of the work is done by players without the ball running into 'dead' space to draw opposition and then cut into dangerous space if their opponents zone off) then apply pressure with quick, agile players without the ball and use a team defence mentality is now the blueprint.

IMO, our game plan and tactics are just old and not the blueprint for success in the current era of footy.

Not sure that is correct at all. Last night wasn’t about being beaten on the spread at all. Collingwood nullified us at the contest last night which we’d been performing well at in the 3 prior games. But the bigger issue was our disposal. We turned the ball over continually and in bad positions because the players couldn’t execute basic passes by foot or hand. They also panicked and blazed away aimlessly. The opposition know that they just need to apply pressure and the rewards will come because most of our players cannot hit targets under pressure. As a result they had territory inside their half for a lot of the game and were able to able to set up behind the ball to stop any type of transition game. When we did get the ball we gave it back straight away. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Sam The Doc]

What?
Like that clutch running into an open goal to finish off the Crows? Oh wait.
What about the clutch 20 meter chip to Saad all by himself to seal the Melbourne game and make the finals for the first time in a decade?

Owies kicked some goals, but he was not a clutch player.
Stunk it up in our first 2 finals too, which is why he got dropped for the prelim.

lol sitting down the other end assuming that was the most simple goal.

He missed one similar against the dees x 2 also... Clutch is not a word you'd associate with him.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

You're wrong - he kicked clutch set shots repeatedly.

Last year, goals vs top eight sides:
9

Goals vs bottom 10 sides:
24

 

[dumb]

i remember back when voss came on board and soon after there was lots of training taking place on how to ice games. this is quite disturbing when you think about it. the players couldn't do it, either didn't know how or lacked the skills, the coaches in place at the time weren't doing it, and the standards we needed weren't set when the players first came through the doors prior to that.

so what are the standards now? we very gently cradled murphy to his 300 game milestone. i don't see how we are not still that team. we have coleman medallists, brownlows and aa's, but as a club i question our interest in enforcing standards and what we demand from players on the field.

think about the efforts we took to learn how to ice the game. now think about our wet weather footy - it's the same. the players don't play wet weather footy, or are instructed not to. we stick to our handball chains and usual positioning.
now think about that clear pattern of skill deficiencies. what else is there? goal-kicking? more?

it was a dirty night for lots of players. conditions didn't help get the most out of our players, in the way we choose to get the most out of them. curnow, tdk and young were a non-entity between the arcs, which is to be expected on a night like that. further up, you can still set up your defence for the inside 50 dump kicks regardless of weather, the result will be the same, just this time the ball fell short onto collingwood chests.

eagles can see blood in the water

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Wish his 'trying too hard' would be putting a hit on when it's laid out in front of him.

I think the commentators and critics are being far too hard with Doc on this, the industry has been telling players to ease up and protect both themselves and their opponent in a contest, you then cant blame a player for not recklessly throwing themselves into a contest they are unlikely to win.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I have noticed there is a concerted effort to look for the right option entering forward 50 and not just blaze away.

Problem is we are trying to pin point to a player and the margin for error is infantisimal, our set up for the forwards is so bad we can never get good separation.

I would take just kicking it to our forwards advantage, dont need it lace out but FFS we seem to kick it straight down the throat of the defender with every entry

 

[kingkingston]

It is frustrating because we are not getting belted. We just can't kick straight when we take shots. We don't have many high IQ players either. Look at Brodie Kemp's miss. He tried snapping off one foot when he had more time to straighten up and snap the ball with momentum while taking a few steps forward. Just awareness like that. I think we are playing alright without reward for efforts getting it inside the forward line. Defensively, we have been good. Getting better every week on that front. We probably give up 20 points each week after we first have a chance to score. The other team eventually makes us pay. It's only the first month, and I think a day game might be what we need after playing all-night games so far.

 

[Y Goat]

We do not have the football fundamentals drilled into us properly to fall back on when things aren’t going our way.

We were completely devoid of confidence tonight, and fell apart. Because we don’t have reliable fundamentals or system.

^ This 100%

The time is now for Jacob to call out his fellow senior players for the abhorrent efforts they put in behind the ball

Doc, Gov shouldn’t be in this team….senior players unwilling to put their body on the line

Haynes although didn’t really do much wrong is just another stop gap average footballer

We have pissed this rebuild up against the wall


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

(Re bolded, not Haynes) How many weeks can this continue, these guys making rudimentary errors costing us each game, and setting a poor example was obvious even back in the practice matches, and R1 vs Richmond. We’re beyond sentiment and collegial inclusion.. season ‘25 is basically burnt, so when will there be selection & accountability. Big fail by coaches/selectors, can share ownership of the season fail.

Action should have been taken at least by R3Dogs.. Play Carroll, Wilson, Binns, whoever presents well in VFL

On a brighter note, was good to see Lord and White in, bringing some hunger to it

(and tell Ollie not to kick Grubbers inside back pocket to 1-on-2 to Oppo advantage. Learning experience but stop doing it. Other parts of his game were good and IMO he can evolve to be a good player, on wing )

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

One of many frustrating moments - We were dominating the 1st quarter, and allowed them back into the game with their first 2 goals coming from forward 50 stoppages.. something that has cost us and should have been highlighted through the week yet we allowed them back into the contest with these defensive lapses.. Equally frustrating is that we seem to have no structure or plan when we have a fwd 50 stoppage, routinely we watch them just walk the ball out of defence with no threat on goal.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

He was a good set shot, but he was not a clutch player.

He kicked clutch goals at key times of games repeatedly - often when we needed a goal to settle or propel us.

He was a clutch as anyone in our forward line - clearly much underrated, as always.

 

[btdg]

Sorry to have confused Daicoseses.
I don’t think Josh haas been in good form for a while, and not a good measure of Doch’s performance anyway.

I don’t want to seem like I have any issues with your posts, I don’t agree and that’s all good.

As for letting emotions control the facts, maybe your emotional attachment to Doch is clouding your assessment?

Not sure if you can be bothered but having watched his games this year there has been very few positives. Very few times he has been involved in a passage of play that has meaningfully benefitted the team.

Dropped marks, missed handballs, errant kicks, and soft attempts, over committing pressure acts and wilting under pressure.

I love Doch but he has been terrible and sometimes the data is painting a false picture. Was he really good last night regardless of player rankings?

i don't think I am being too emotional. I also don't think his game was 'great'. Just not terrible. He is (right now) a limited player physically. Hopefully still has improvement to come. Should be playing as the sub IMO

My take on Docherty since his return is:

- Elimination final vs Brisbane - he was miles off fit and definitely should not have played.

- sub vs Richmond. Very mixed. 14 touches was excellent involvement. Had some bad turnovers and missed his two shots at goal. Touch/finishing was poor, but the role was right and had he kicked those two goals we probably win so mixed overall. 5/10 (could have been a 9/10 if he kicks the goals and avoids the turnovers)

- midfield vs Hawthorn. 13 disposals in 86% game time, and he just didn't look up to it. Had 9 tackles but mostly because he was late to the ball. Bad game, 3/10

- midfield vs Bulldogs. 15 touches, very little impact, another bad game. 3/10

- wing vs Collingwood. 27 touches with 20 kicks at good efficiency in the wind/wet? Much better- some bad moments, still not strong enough in contest or the air, but probably 7/10 overall.

In an ideal world we would play him as the sub. I think he has had most impact there, and could really come on to fill a gap for a quarter anywhere on the ground.

If we aren't confident with Camporeale/Cottrell and have no options then he is a competent wing if he can sustain what he did last night. Repeat that effort next week vs West Coast and I guarantee we win and everyone here is singing his praises (with less pressure he will look better). And hopefully with more time back in the game he elevates further from here too...

 

[CCurnow3picks]

One of many frustrating moments - We were dominating the 1st quarter, and allowed them back into the game with their first 2 goals coming from forward 50 stoppages.. something that has cost us and should have been highlighted through the week yet we allowed them back into the contest with these defensive lapses.. Equally frustrating is that we seem to have no structure or plan when we have a fwd 50 stoppage, routinely we watch them just walk the ball out of defence with no threat on goal.

We focussed so heavily on Daicos it left room out the back of stoppage, often.

In the first qtr two players coming from behind stoppage kicked goals.

In the second half our shape around the ball collapsed totally.

 

[GoBlues!]

I would take just kicking it to our forwards advantage, dont need it lace out but FFS we seem to kick it straight down the throat of the defender with every entry

It happened coming out of defence also. Just picking the wrong option, sometimes mis-kicking it straight to their midfielders - thinking McG and Ollie a couple of times.

Actually think Ollie would be better suited up forward than down back imo, less of a liability. He also showed he could kick a couple goals last night when he pushed forward. Maybe when Boyd returns try Ollie fwd.

 

[Opium]

The opposition don't go near him. They don't care if he wins the footy.

Because they know he'll give it straight back

 

[Blue since 72]

It’s not one playing group.
There are only 11 players on our list who were coached at all by Bolton, and 4 of them had half a year with him.

Gameplan is well down the list of coaching problems. We’re not well drilled. We don’t do the fundamentals well. And now our confidence is completely shot.

Agreed.

While I think game day coaching leaves a fair bit to be desired the more pressing issue is the players. The collective inability to make better decisions and execute those decisions consistently across a game is damning as is the inability to sustain pressure on the opposition.

Would also have a hard look at selection; Curious to know whether Cripps was struggling and if so why was he played (and I am certainly not interested in "because we have to") or did he just give up?

So four games have passed now and the same players keep making the same poor decisions and keep executing fundamental skills poorly so surely we should be seeing certain players dropped.

Don't doubt that confidence is an issue but going into ones shell won't fix that problem and neither will playing for yourself.

Would like to know When the coach is going to accept that talking about doing and hoping it gets done is not working.

 

[Blue since 72]

It happened coming out of defence also. Just picking the wrong option, sometimes mis-kicking it straight to their midfielders - thinking McG and Ollie a couple of times.

Actually think Ollie would be better suited up forward than down back imo, less of a liability. He also showed he could kick a couple goals last night when he pushed forward. Maybe when Boyd returns try Ollie fwd.

Maybe Ollie should be playing high half forward, has the tank and can be a link player back the other way, just not strong enough for defence, all the opposition have to do is put a bigger body on him and work through that player.

 

[lily of laguna]

Freudian slip there Lily?

You’re right though, we played like a bunch of children.

Haha could be, but more likely I just can’t spell!!!!

 

[lily of laguna]

i don't think I am being too emotional. I also don't think his game was 'great'. Just not terrible. He is (right now) a limited player physically. Hopefully still has improvement to come. Should be playing as the sub IMO

My take on Docherty since his return is:

- Elimination final vs Brisbane - he was miles off fit and definitely should not have played.

- sub vs Richmond. Very mixed. 14 touches was excellent involvement. Had some bad turnovers and missed his two shots at goal. Touch/finishing was poor, but the role was right and had he kicked those two goals we probably win so mixed overall. 5/10 (could have been a 9/10 if he kicks the goals and avoids the turnovers)

- midfield vs Hawthorn. 13 disposals in 86% game time, and he just didn't look up to it. Had 9 tackles but mostly because he was late to the ball. Bad game, 3/10

- midfield vs Bulldogs. 15 touches, very little impact, another bad game. 3/10

- wing vs Collingwood. 27 touches with 20 kicks at good efficiency in the wind/wet? Much better- some bad moments, still not strong enough in contest or the air, but probably 7/10 overall.

In an ideal world we would play him as the sub. I think he has had most impact there, and could really come on to fill a gap for a quarter anywhere on the ground.

If we aren't confident with Camporeale/Cottrell and have no options then he is a competent wing if he can sustain what he did last night. Repeat that effort next week vs West Coast and I guarantee we win and everyone here is singing his praises (with less pressure he will look better). And hopefully with more time back in the game he elevates further from here too...

Fair enough, I admit it didn’t watch after half time last night but your assessment of the previous games is fair.
I actually think the Richmond game was much worse than what you’ve described.

Coming on as sub what we needed was a clear thinking, calming, experienced player who could rally those around him to play a solid last quarter.

What we got was a panic merchant who made crucial errors, even though he had more energy to get to more contests and be part of the play.

Anyway I don’t think Doc is why we lost each game but he didn’t help us win them either.

 

[new_blue]

Not sure where to start. I was demoralised when we lost to Richmond - not just because we lost to a team that’s miles off being a remotely competitive team at present, but because of the way we played. The whole game seemed disjointed and like we were playing a different sport to a team I considere the worst in the league. I thought that was one of our worst losses in the last 10 years and put that loss down to Voss. I pretty much wrote our season off at that point.

Fast forward to Tuesday on AFL360 when Garry Lyon asked both Voss and Hinkley the same question around how they turn things around.

Voss responds with “Contest and Effort”. They then move on to Hinkley who says “effort should be a given” and that “the game’s no longer about contest, is now about transition”. When quizzed further he said “players now need to react 3 seconds before the contest and work out which teams is likely to win the contest and transition accordingly.”

In my view - this is the single reason why we’re so easy to play against. We’re basically 3 seconds behind on both defence and attack. We win the contest and look up and our opposition is already in position and we’re not. Or we lose the contest and they’re out and away before we even react. We’re still playing early 2000s football. This isn’t game style I coach my U10s.

Until the coaching group re-prioritise playing modern football we’re no chance of being competitive. Having a number of players with low footy IQ and inability to hit a target is a separate issue but for the most part I’m putting this squarely on the coaches.

 

[JustaBattler]

i don't think I am being too emotional. I also don't think his game was 'great'. Just not terrible. He is (right now) a limited player physically. Hopefully still has improvement to come. Should be playing as the sub IMO

My take on Docherty since his return is:

- Elimination final vs Brisbane - he was miles off fit and definitely should not have played.

- sub vs Richmond. Very mixed. 14 touches was excellent involvement. Had some bad turnovers and missed his two shots at goal. Touch/finishing was poor, but the role was right and had he kicked those two goals we probably win so mixed overall. 5/10 (could have been a 9/10 if he kicks the goals and avoids the turnovers)

- midfield vs Hawthorn. 13 disposals in 86% game time, and he just didn't look up to it. Had 9 tackles but mostly because he was late to the ball. Bad game, 3/10

- midfield vs Bulldogs. 15 touches, very little impact, another bad game. 3/10

- wing vs Collingwood. 27 touches with 20 kicks at good efficiency in the wind/wet? Much better- some bad moments, still not strong enough in contest or the air, but probably 7/10 overall.

In an ideal world we would play him as the sub. I think he has had most impact there, and could really come on to fill a gap for a quarter anywhere on the ground.

If we aren't confident with Camporeale/Cottrell and have no options then he is a competent wing if he can sustain what he did last night. Repeat that effort next week vs West Coast and I guarantee we win and everyone here is singing his praises (with less pressure he will look better). And hopefully with more time back in the game he elevates further from here too...

Generally speaking I think your posting is pretty much spot on

in the case of Doch atm - he is being played as if Voss is hoping for him to get back into some form his actual performance in games has been bottom 6 players at best and my comment isnt based on just last night's efforts. He avoided numerous contests - nto just the blatant one which gave that pissant Shultz a goal his disposal is absolute rubbish and his ability to miss tackles underlines that he isnt playing to previous expected standards - he survives because there is no one better to replace him same league as McGovern unfortunately and now to top it all off Cowan is out with a hamstring injury .

When the side and coach is carrying developed senior players like Docherty, McGovern. Williams, Haynes the younger players have no one to leverage off and rely on - things fall apart pretty quickly...

When you have Harry Mckay benching himself and the team needs to rely on Young and Kemp as replacement talls - neither of whom has much experience as a forward - we are in big trouble.


When our so called best clearance midfield in the competition gets pantsed by Collingwood in clearances for a full half and dont have the composure ( intestinal fortitude) to match intensity - you are done.

Ity is big games like lasyt night that you expect your senior players to stand up and match the pressure that is being meeted out - they all pretty much failed except for Hewett/Cerra and Weitering.

I gove a leave pass to Jacks two goals as he is learning how to be a full balk allowing mihopcek to drive him backwards and stop his ability to stop a couple of lousy scrub kicks through teh goal that is learning experience - I give him a pass because next to Weitering Jack is already our second best defender.

When i see Olli missigg so many important tackles and fluffing so many kicks I see a great yioung kid burdened by too much responsibility for his size and ability- why isnt McGovern or Haynes - the designated runners and distributors - itisnt like they too busy winning one on one aerial contests.


Nahh the list is broken and has been for 2-3 years- no 2nd KPD no decent small forwards- although I thought White is evidencing some strong natural forward straits - a first gamer already gone past Motlop who is isnt the sharpest knife in the block.

The Club is carrying a poor mix of senior players as well as ( now clear to me) a very ordinary set assistant coaches.


oh coaches aren't the only leadership issue - on field leadership is missing BIG TIME .

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not sure where to start. I was demoralised when we lost to Richmond - not just because we lost to a team that’s miles off being a remotely competitive team at present, but because of the way we played. The whole game seemed disjointed and like we were playing a different sport to a team I considere the worst in the league. I thought that was one of our worst losses in the last 10 years and put that loss down to Voss. I pretty much wrote our season off at that point.

Fast forward to Tuesday on AFL360 when Garry Lyon asked both Voss and Hinkley the same question around how they turn things around.

Voss responds with “Contest and Effort”. They then move on to Hinkley who says “effort should be a given” and that “the game’s no longer about contest, is now about transition”. When quizzed further he said “players now need to react 3 seconds before the contest and work out which teams is likely to win the contest and transition accordingly.”

In my view - this is the single reason why we’re so easy to play against. We’re basically 3 seconds behind on both defence and attack. We win the contest and look up and our opposition is already in position and we’re not. Or we lose the contest and they’re out and away before we even react. We’re still playing early 2000s football. This isn’t game style I coach my U10s.

Until the coaching group re-prioritise playing modern football we’re no chance of being competitive. Having a number of players with low footy IQ and inability to hit a target is a separate issue but for the most part I’m putting this squarely on the coaches.

This was extremely telling, Voss looked out of his depth compared to Hinkley with explaining how he would fix the form. Voss just in denial about the brand of footy he is asking us to play, and how ineffective it is in 2025 whilst Hinkley acknowledges the issues and has a plan to fix it.

 

[Vassp]

Sos is one of your most creative players, I enjoyed watching his game. did a few game-breaking passes through to midfield. Could use another 2 of him.

 

[rp84]

Im sure happy they killed my love of football last year, otherwise I'd be really disappointed right now.

I've gone from attending 14 games in 2022, to watching a total of about 45mins of football in 2025.

I guess I should thank them. I have far more spare time on my weekends and I drink much less.

Thanks Carlton.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

6 times in a game is not targeting him enough

Guess that went over your head…..

 

[Sam The Doc]

Sos is one of your most creative players, I enjoyed watching his game. did a few game-breaking passes through to midfield. Could use another 2 of him.

How'd you manage to get through that game as a neutral