List Mgmt. 2025 Trade/FA Thread

[Bianconeri]

This is some serious revisionist history! Grundy was still yet to be pushed out, so not sure how that is relevant. Pendlebury and Sidebottom still finished 3rd and 5th in the B&F respectively. Crisp, Elliott, Adams, Moore and Maynard were all playing really solid footy but had a couple of injuries. Quaynor, Daicos, Murphy and Noble were all emerging best 22 youth on top of that.

I would say most of those players are more serious talents than Adam Saad or Nic Newman

McKay is still yet to be pushed out so same difference.

I’m sure Cripps, Weitering and Curnow will finish high in Cartlon’s bnf as well not sure what the relevance is there.

Talk about revisionist history then calling Murphy an emerging talent in 2021. He was a Buckley NQR that played on the wing.

 

[jmac70]

Walsh is good, not great. Saad and Silvagni are solid, as is Hollands (who has some other issues). Newman is battling serious injury to come back at a pretty old age - none of our veterans have suffered that kind of structural injury to their lower body. And Smith hasn't played a game yet.

I just don't rate their list. They have no prolonged period of success, many of the players they have brought in recently (Cerra, Williams, McGovern, Acres etc.) on big coin have been flops.

There are some pretty key differences between us in 21 and them now that I think you're overlooking. Namely, the best young player the game has seen in decades and a genuine embrace of fresh faces at all levels of coaching, management and board.

They have too many of the same type. Big bodied mids who can win clearances but not hit targets.

It will be fascinating to see who they appoint as their next coach.

 

[gouki88]

McKay is still yet to be pushed out so same difference.

I’m sure Cripps, Weitering and Curnow will finish high in Cartlon’s bnf as well not sure what the relevance is there.

Talk about revisionist history then calling Murphy an emerging talent in 2021. He was a Buckley NQR that played on the wing.

Not at all the same difference given Grundy was still with us in 2022, and in 2021 was a much better player than Harry McKay in 2025.

They likely will (except Curnow IMO), but I just don't see the logic in taking our bizarre and exceptional ageing as the norm for them. Can you explain that to me?

Murphy was playing more in the back half under Harvey than he was under Buckley, and started in the back pocket in his last game. The transition to a defender seemed pretty clear, even if there were hardcore teething problems.

 

[gouki88]

They have too many of the same type. Big bodied mids who can win clearances but not hit targets.

It will be fascinating to see who they appoint as their next coach.

Their list profile is a dogs breakfast. No speed on the outside, poor footskills, not a single good small forward, and extremely reliant on a handful of ageing players.

 

[Scodog10]

Walsh is good, not great. Saad and Silvagni are solid, as is Hollands (who has some other issues). Newman is battling serious injury to come back at a pretty old age - none of our veterans have suffered that kind of structural injury to their lower body. And Smith hasn't played a game yet.

I just don't rate their list. They have no prolonged period of success, many of the players they have brought in recently (Cerra, Williams, McGovern, Acres etc.) on big coin have been flops.

There are some pretty key differences between us in 21 and them now that I think you're overlooking. Namely, the best young player the game has seen in decades and a genuine embrace of fresh faces at all levels of coaching, management and board.

They’ll get that in 26-27 with a new coach, GM of footy, Smith and Walker… They really aren’t as far back as you’re suggesting they are.

 

[Go Woods]

Don't mind the chat surrounding Lever.

Only if he removes that moustache...

 

[gouki88]

They’ll get that in 26-27 with a new coach, GM of footy, Smith and Walker… They really aren’t as far back as you’re suggesting they are.

You're assuming the absolute best case for these changes though. Fly, Leppa and Jarrod Wade were all incredible hiring choices, and Nick has been a top 3-5 player in the competition since he was 20 years old.

 

[Scodog10]

You're assuming the absolute best case for these changes though. Fly, Leppa and Jarrod Wade were all incredible hiring choices, and Nick has been a top 3-5 player in the competition since he was 20 years old.

Are you not expecting the worst by speculating on the malaise of Cripps, Curnow and Weitering, questioning their missing talent and downplaying the injection of talent they’re due to receive?

All of those elements also don’t need to be the wins we had because they’re starting from a much better base than we were having finished 17th, pissed away a top 3 pick for some magic beans (how ****ing awesome would we be with Callaghan right now ) and paying a massive salary to a gun to play against us.

I think you need to be more mindful on this one that things are never as good nor as bad as they appear…

 

[gouki88]

Are you not expecting the worst by speculating on the malaise of Cripps, Curnow and Weitering, questioning their missing talent and downplaying the injection of talent they’re due to receive?

All of those elements also don’t need to be the wins we had because they’re starting from a much better base than we were having finished 17th, pissed away a top 3 pick for some magic beans (how ****ing awesome would we be with Callaghan right now ) and paying a massive salary to a gun to play against us.

I think you need to be more mindful on this one that things are never as good nor as bad as they appear…

Not really, no. I would say that most teams on the trajectory they are on don't bounce back into prolonged contention immediately as we did. My projections of decline are based on the current decline we're witnessing this season, which begun about 2/3 of the way through last year when they lost to GWS.

 

[Scodog10]

Not really, no. I would say that most teams on the trajectory they are on don't bounce back into prolonged contention immediately as we did. My projections of decline are based on the current decline we're witnessing this season, which begun about 2/3 of the way through last year when they lost to GWS.

Food for thought they made a prelim and an Elimination final the years prior. Which is one step off our trajectory before 2022 and well ahead of Richmond’s trajectory entering 2017. Point noted though on the elongated negative course they’re on.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

You're assuming the absolute best case for these changes though. Fly, Leppa and Jarrod Wade were all incredible hiring choices, and Nick has been a top 3-5 player in the competition since he was 20 years old.

I'd go Nick top 1-3 since he was 19, 2023 was only his second year

 

[No SPIN]

Form is temporary and class is permanent and they’re in no worse shape than Pendles, Sidey and Howey were exiting 2021. That said I’d probably have GWS and Carlton on a par because I overlooked Green.

Walsh, Newman, Smith, Saad, Silvagni and Hollands are all talents. I haven’t factored in McKay because he won’t be there next year, IMO. I genuinely can’t believe the pile on from Pies supporters who should have learned lessons from where we were in 2021.

I think you are making a huge assumption about Carlton rebounding as we did in 2021. They don’t have a Wade equivalent.
Just watching how Walsh has been mismanaged and the historical complaints about their high performance staff makes me believe a 2021 type rebound by the rejuvenation of older bodies is questionable.

 

[Gabbo64]

Only if he removes that moustache...

He needs that for his other job as a pr0n star.

 

[Mark W]

If zac butters were to request a trade to Collingwood,I would consider sending jacob ryan and harvey harrison as part of a deal.

How very generous of you..

 

[lones37]

Everything hinges on NWM, if he requested a trade to Port, how will the trade get done? This is where Butters would need to be involved in three way trade IMO.

 

[Robroy22]

They have too many of the same type. Big bodied mids who can win clearances but not hit targets.

It will be fascinating to see who they appoint as their next coach.

Whether Voss stays or not I'd suggest that Wrighty will throw the kitchen sink at Hayden Skipworth. He's the next "Fly in waiting" and clubs across the competition know it.

 

[gouki88]

Whether Voss stays or not I'd suggest that Wrighty will throw the kitchen sink at Hayden Skipworth. He's the next "Fly in waiting" and clubs across the competition know it.

We could swap them Skipworth for Voss

 

[Robroy22]

We could swap them Skipworth for Voss

Yeah....nah

 

[lones37]

Whether Voss stays or not I'd suggest that Wrighty will throw the kitchen sink at Hayden Skipworth. He's the next "Fly in waiting" and clubs across the competition know it.

Yep our worst nightmare, hopefully he realises the list is needing of a lot of work, and rejects it.

 

[Scodog10]

Whether Voss stays or not I'd suggest that Wrighty will throw the kitchen sink at Hayden Skipworth. He's the next "Fly in waiting" and clubs across the competition know it.

I suspect Skipworth will be number 1 and Hickmott number 2. Getting someone out of that Mitchell system will be huge in the coming years. Having worked with both GW will know the quality on offer when they inevitably move on Voss.

 

[gouki88]

Yep our worst nightmare, hopefully he realises the list is needing of a lot of work, and rejects it.

If I'm Skipworth I would hope for that Freo role

 

[gouki88]

I suspect Skipworth will be number 1 and Hickmott number 2. Getting someone out of that Mitchell system will be huge in the coming years. Having worked with both GW will know the quality on offer when they inevitably move on Voss.

Let's hope the romance of another ex-Blue gets the job done

 

[lones37]

If I'm Skipworth I would hope for that Freo role

True, and a flag chance quickly I would say.

 

[MooreDaicos]

I'm glad the Carlton talk has stopped, it made me feel sick, I even double checked to see if I was on the wrong board

 

[Bianconeri]

Not at all the same difference given Grundy was still with us in 2022, and in 2021 was a much better player than Harry McKay in 2025.

Grundy contributed three fifths of **** all in 2022 so it’s still the same difference. And Grundy being a better player makes McKay a lesser loss.

They likely will (except Curnow IMO), but I just don't see the logic in taking our bizarre and exceptional ageing as the norm for them. Can you explain that to me?

Because aside from Pendlebury our ageing hasn’t been bizarre and exceptional. No one they’re relying on is Pendlebury aged.

Most of our older players played how’d you’d expect in 2022/23 taking on lesser roles with our stars in their prime taking on the brunt of the responsibility.

What exceptional thing we did was get a proper coach and list manager, back in our older talent instead of cutting them and recruit best 22 players from other clubs without breaking the bank.

Murphy was playing more in the back half under Harvey than he was under Buckley, and started in the back pocket in his last game. The transition to a defender seemed pretty clear, even if there were hardcore teething problems.

Even then very few would have picked out Murphy wouldn’t have been considered an emerging talent in the back half. Fly’s tactical shift got the best out. I’m sure there are similar unknown players on Carlton’s list that will emerge under a better coach.

BTW I’m not saying they’re a big chance to bounce back. It will be hard for any club to find success in the 18 team era I just don’t see gutting their list and going to the draft as their best option.