20th AFL Team

[Roylion]

By the AFL.

The AFL can't compel any club to relocate or merge. I've already explained this.

Hopefully some of the smaller Melbourne teams could figure out it would be better than playing 2-3 games away every year and constantly struggling financially.

And if none do?

They can't be compelled to merge or relocate.

If the supporters liked the idea and support it, maybe they end up the 5th biggest club in Melbourne.

Most supporters wouldn't like the idea.

I just think it is an option that hasn't been tried compared to relocation.

There have been plenty of merger attempts in the past. All have failed.

 

[Bjo187]

The AFL cannot relocate or merge any AFL club it does not own without that club's consent. Other clubs cannot force any other club to relocate against their will.

The AFL's constitution says in Clause 24:

"The Commission may grant an entity the status of a Club and the right to representation on AFL and may:

a) relocate the playing, administration and social base of a Club
b) recognise implement and adopt the merger of two or more Clubs

with the consent of the Club or Clubs involved."

Clause 27 says that any Commission decision (including the termination of a club's licence) may be reversed by two thirds of the 18 Appointees (Clubs) at a general meeting of the AFL requisitioned by three Appointees (Clubs) within 14 days of the Commission decision.

So all the AFL can do is withdraw a licence.

You could still make it work. Say we want new teams in Canberra and Perth, we're offering the kangaroos a good deal of millions, training facilities and a stadium and access to a big zone in the ACT and riverina to relocate. Then if they refuse you could say we'll take the licence away as we want the competition at 20 clubs. The other clubs won't vote against it, other than maybe 1 or 2 Victorian clubs that might see themselves as next in line.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Perth will grow in population more than Canberra will have population in the next 10 years.

A bit of an exaggeration. The ABS says Greater Perth will grow by about 280k in a decade. So half a Canberra. And not taking in the wider Capital Region.

The market is under catered, it needs attention and adding the 20th team is the time. Wait longer and NRL will get those numbers.

These arguments apply just as much, if not more, for a Canberra team.

Obviously, we are more under-catered than Perth. We literally don't have a team. And as Canberra grows, the NRL has the monopoly. Perth still has a multiple teams to follow.

 

[Roylion]

You could still make it work.

But you can't force a club to relocate or merge.

Say we want new teams in Canberra and Perth, we're offering the kangaroos a good deal of millions, training facilities and a stadium and access to a big zone in the ACT and riverina to relocate.

You mean like what was offered to North Melbourne in 2008?

Then if they refuse you could say we'll take the licence away as we want the competition at 20 clubs.

Any attempt to "cull" clubs by taking away their licence would need a very good reason (more than just wanting to keep a certain number of clubs) or there would be prolonged legal action through the courts.

As I said, the league has a legal duty to its incumbent clubs to look after their interests to a significant extent.

Club will explore every avenue to avoid a merger, often with a great deal of vitriol and negative publicity. We saw that in the 80s and 90s. To the point where the AFL abandoned any further attempt to encourage mergers of Melbourne based clubs and decided to expand the league.

The other clubs won't vote against it, other than maybe 1 or 2 Victorian clubs that might see themselves as next in line.

That is only an assumption.

 

[RedV3x]

What does that mean exactly?

You cannot force a club to relocate but you can force a failing club .

 

[RedV3x]

What would that criteria be?

They're broke.

 

[Roylion]

You cannot force a club to relocate but you can force a failing club .

The AFL can only withdraw a licence. North aren't 'failing', so there's no reason to withdraw their licence.

 

[RedV3x]

Perth will grow in population more than Canberra will have population in the next 10 years.

The leftovers of the growth of population in Perth for Pth3 will be much smaller than Canberra and subsequent .
Canberra growth.

The market is under catered, it needs attention

Yes, you could say that the Perth market is under-catered for.

and adding the 20th team is the time.

Much easier to have a gather round or make Perth the home of the AFLW G.F., home of the indigenous series, home of International Football, home of AFLW series. home of AFL Asia, home of Australian Football championships. .

Wait longer and NRL will get those numbers.

Why would they go to NRL ahead of NBA, BBL, Glory, Netball, tennis, Golf or Pickleball ?

TV revenue is only half the income of the AFL and WA3 will

add NOTHING to the media rights unlike Canberra.

end up ahead of Brisbane and Sydney in terms of attendance in a short time period, let alone the bottom of the competition.

Where are these Pth3 fans coming from ?

 

[1990crow]

The AFL can only withdraw a licence. North aren't 'failing', so there's no reason to withdraw their licence.

I know Fitzroy is front of mind for this issue for you, so to be honest I'll take your opinion on this with a grain of salt.

If the AFL wanted North and Saints to move, they'd make it happen.
Under your rules they'd just withdraw the license and request North and Saints submit new license requests in alternate locations.

 

[RedV3x]

The AFL can only withdraw a licence. North aren't 'failing', so there's no reason to withdraw their licence.

Correct, but they not going to evoke any sympathy if they do indeed fail.

 

[Run n Spread]

We are in the middle of a housing and cost of living crisis which is going to blow up into a major social crisis any minute.
People are not going to move to western Sydney or Canberra. Why? Growth there is capped. WA 3 has the same problems.
They will move for cheap land lifestyle affordability and opportunity.
It's going to boom. An NT team solidifies that and offers literally endless possibilities. Not to mention they'd be uniquely Australian and if we are ever going to expand interionally that is the vehicle for it.
Sports today are a truly global market.

 

[Bjo187]

I'm positive they could find a way to make it work if they had the ticker. Goyder and Dillon are the two most uninspiring leaders the afl have seen as a combination though, so I'm sure they cbf. If a chairman came in with the competitions best interests at heart, they could make the move.

The difference between this and all other merger and relocations proposals is, it's actually a genuinely good offer for once.

• ACT government will kick in about 10 mill per year.
• North get their own redeveloped new ground.
• They get their own training base.
• Get a zone encompassing the whole on the ACT as well as the footy hotbed of the riverina.
• North retain 2 Victorian home games.
• It's only 7 hours drive away for the diehards.

It's just simply a great offer for a club that's been running off an oily rag it's whole existence, to finally obtain a bigger supporter base, be a financial powerhouse, have the best recruiting zone in the country and great growth potential. They could even be another swans or lions, but they are within reasonable travelling distance and retain more of their Melbourne identity in the move than the previous two.

 

[RedV3x]

I know Fitzroy is front of mind for this issue for you, so to be honest I'll take your opinion on this with a grain of salt.

If the AFL wanted North and Saints to move, they'd make it happen.
Under your rules they'd just withdraw the license and request North and Saints submit new license requests in alternate locations.

No. they'd simply say we'll support you if you relocate otherwise you risk losing your license.

 

[Roylion]

I know Fitzroy is front of mind for this issue for you, so to be honest I'll take your opinion on this with a grain of salt.

You can do what you like. I know what the AFL can and can't do. There are more examples than just Fitzroy. Not to mention the wording of their own constitution.

If the AFL wanted North and Saints to move, they'd make it happen.

They wanted North to move to the Gold Coast in 2007. Did it happen? Why not?

The AFL don't want the angst, vitriol and negative publicity. Nor do they want to end up in the courts.

Under your rules they'd just withdraw the license

They're not my rules.

and request North and Saints submit new license requests in alternate locations.

Why didn't that happen in 2007? Or 1996?

 

[Roylion]

No. they'd simply say we'll support you if you relocate otherwise you risk losing your license.

Did that happen in 2007?

 

[Canberra Pear]

We are in the middle of a housing and cost of living crisis which is going to blow up into a major social crisis any minute.
People are not going to move to western Sydney or Canberra. Why? Growth there is capped. WA 3 has the same problems.
They will move for cheap land lifestyle affordability and opportunity.
It's going to boom. An NT team solidifies that and offers literally endless possibilities. Not to mention they'd be uniquely Australian and if we are ever going to expand interionally that is the vehicle for it.
Sports today are a truly global market.

I beg you, please look up some numbers before you post these things.

The ACT is the fastest growing state/territory. It has been for the past two censuses. We're not capped. There are so many buildings going up. New suburbs announced every other year.

 

[RedV3x]

We are in the middle of a housing and cost of living crisis which is going to blow up into a major social crisis any minute.
People are not going to move to western Sydney or Canberra. Why? Growth there is capped. WA 3 has the same problems.
They will move for cheap land lifestyle affordability and opportunity.

Yes, there is a movement to regional Australia.

An NT team solidifies that and offers literally endless possibilities.

Possibilities abound. What about practicalities ?

Not to mention they'd be uniquely Australian

Uniquely Territorian you mean or homogeneously Australian ?

and if we are ever going to expand internationally

I'm all ears. How is the N.T. going to help AFL expand internationally ?

that is the vehicle for it.

What vehicle ?

Sports today are a truly global market.

Yes and the N.T. has none of the action .

 

[Outtatym]

I know Fitzroy is front of mind for this issue for you, so to be honest I'll take your opinion on this with a grain of salt.

If the AFL wanted North and Saints to move, they'd make it happen.
Under your rules they'd just withdraw the license and request North and Saints submit new license requests in alternate locations.

Except it wouldnt. Both of those are actual clubs- not AFL operated franchises like some interstate clubs.
The members would never go for it.

 

[Run n Spread]

I beg you, please look up some numbers before you post these things.

The ACT is the fastest growing state/territory. It has been for the past two censuses. We're not capped. There are so many buildings going up. New suburbs announced every other year.

Every 16 yo on the planet has a kayo account or access to and streams sport endlessly.
They follow real Madrid or the red sox or the green bay packers same way I support the pies and you ACT \power.
You want a piece of the US sports market or name a country and get them subscribing to an Australian sport what new team screams Australia and offers not just a crowded market segment but a whole new market??
It's NT or bust.

 

[Roylion]

I'm positive they could find a way to make it work if they had the ticker. Goyder and Dillon are the two most uninspiring leaders the afl have seen as a combination though, so I'm sure they cbf. If a chairman came in with the competitions best interests at heart, they could make the move.

The difference between this and all other merger and relocations proposals is, it's actually a genuinely good offer for once.

As opposed to the $100 million carrot that AFL offered to pack up and move to the Gold Coast in 2007 which was rejected?

That offer included

• elimination of the Roos' then $5 million debt.
• an injection of $22 million into its revenue streams,
• a separate $10 million grant to be put towards a non-football revenue generating asset,
• a relocation package for players, coaches and staff of more than $3 million,
• the buying back of privately owned shares in the club, and
• on-going marketing and game development support.

• ACT government will kick in about 10 mill per year.
• North get their own redeveloped new ground.
• They get their own training base.
• Get a zone encompassing the whole on the ACT as well as the footy hotbed of the riverina.
• North retain 2 Victorian home games.
• It's only 7 hours drive away for the diehards.

It's just simply a great offer for a club that's been running off an oily rag it's whole existence,

And currently debt free.

to finally obtain a bigger supporter base, be a financial powerhouse, have the best recruiting zone in the country and great growth potential. They could even be another swans or lions, but they are within reasonable travelling distance and retain more of their Melbourne identity in the move than the previous two.

Problem is they're only interested at remaining at their admin and training base at Arden Street which, since 2018, has just an injection of $17 million to bring the facilities up to AFL standard. Not to mention record membership in 2023 and current assets of $19.2 million. Their 2024 membership was 50,628, only 456 members below their 2023 record of 51,084.

 

[Roylion]

Correct, but they not going to evoke any sympathy if they do indeed fail.

They're not failing at the moment. No need to merge, relocate and they're in no danger of having their licence withdrawn.

 

[big_e]

They're broke.

I'm sure if a club was broke they'd get a tap on the shoulder. But no club is even remotely close to that point. The closest would be St Kilda, but given the way the AFL propped up Port Adelaide a few years back, I think it's more likely their status as a foundation club would see the AFL support them, rather than shut them down.

 

[Bjo187]

As opposed to the $100 million carrot that AFL offered to pack up and move to the Gold Coast in 2007 which was rejected?

That offer included

• elimination of the Roos' then $5 million debt.
• an injection of $22 million into its revenue streams,
• a separate $10 million grant to be put towards a non-football revenue generating asset,
• a relocation package for players, coaches and staff of more than $3 million,
• the buying back of privately owned shares in the club, and
• on-going marketing and game development support.

And currently debt free.


Problem is they're only interested at remaining at their admin and training base at Arden Street which, since 2018, has just an injection of $17 million to bring the facilities up to AFL standard. Not to mention record membership in 2023 and current assets of $19.2 million.

Yes the deal their CEO or chairman said they were going to take until they asked Demetriou for specifics on the deal, which he couldn't produce and they smelt a rat so backed out. There was a documentary on it where he states this in an interview.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Every 16 yo on the planet has a kayo account or access to and streams sport endlessly.
They follow real Madrid or the red sox or the green bay packers same way I support the pies and you ACT \power.
You want a piece of the US sports market or name a country and get them subscribing to an Australian sport what new team screams Australia and offers not just a crowded market segment but a whole new market??
It's NT or bust.

You've moved the goal posts there, but alright.

You want a team that screams Australia? It already exists. It's the North Melbourne Kangaroos. Nothing more famously Australian than a kangaroo. And Melbourne is a place foreigners have actually heard of.

Overseas support is great, but the basis of a team still has to be more than just a vibe.

 

[Roylion]

Yes the deal their CEO or chairman said they were going to take until they asked Demetriou for specifics on the deal, which he couldn't produce and they smelt a rat so backed out.

And the AFL couldn't force them to take the deal and relocate. Even when $5 million in debt.