20th AFL Team

[Bjo187]

That’s not a bad idea.

Pitch it as a state side. Just need a good name for them.

How about… the West Coast Eagles.

Wait…

It's annoying actually, eagles should really be Perth and the proposed team West Coast.

 

[RedV3x]

I honestly can't believe that it's taken semi-seriously.

At best it would be a "boutique" model and you'd have to ask "why".

 

[RedV3x]

Mark Duffield has been pushing it on sen W.A as well, but yeah it needs to be out of northern Perth.

It only makes sense to target an area not currently well serviced by football.
That would be N.E., S.E. and East of Perth.

They could even play a couple of games in Bunbury each year if they wanna pull fans from that area too.

Makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'd actually go 2 at a redeveloped Joondalup,

The government reneged on putting a station next to the oval.
The current government is not going to spend money on AFL.

 

[RedV3x]

It's annoying actually, eagles should really be Perth

Members voted down a name change to Perth after Fremantle was admitted.

and the proposed team West Coast.

The West coast population is almost totally committed to the existing AFL sides.
There is no WAFL representation in the new expanded N.E. and especially in the historical S.E all the way to Armadale and beyond.
Armadale actually adjoins the Peel region and the Peel adjoins to the S.W.

 

[Freomaniac]

to be fair, the lion has generally appeared with a mane (ie male) in Brisbane’s branding, the dockers were branded for years with a male figure holding the anchor and the demons figure appeared male. I think this discussion matter less than we are making out. The men’s team will realistically attract the lion share of support.

My suggestion for the Rams was prompted because it gave the feeling that the team was serious, competitive, to be feared etc. I don’t get that from the suns or giants… important to be taken seriously from the outset. Look at all the people of reddit wishing hold coast would rebrand as the sharks etc.

So like the Chicago Bulls in the NBA?

 

[Badger17]

Chopping everything I say into sound bites and dodging the substance of the arguments I'm making is a waste of everybody's time.

Act like a human from now on or I'll stop responding.

Because hey are aggressive and not eaten like roosters and rabbits.

Rams are a food source. . . Do you really think they only butcher female lambs and ewes for mutton?

Never met a rooster or heard of cockfighting either? lmao

I was thinking of the NSWs rams have Australian history.

Australian history sure, little or no relevance to Canberra though.

I know the history of the roosters and the rabbits.
You forgot the North Adelaide Roosters formed in 1888.

Clearly you don't, but whatever. We can't be experts in everything.

And still are !

You'd be hard pressed to find a person from South Sydney that's offended by being associated with rabbitohs.

Both monikers have been embraced and are a source of pride.

Open you eyes.

They're open and present in Canberra, as opposed to being on the other side of the country and probably never having been here before...

The Rams is a crap name for a club that's meant to represent Canberra and the ACT. It's shallow, if you will. The sort of thing an overpaid corporate marketing team or a person with little understanding of the history and no investment in the community would come up with.

The symbolism might not mean anything to you but NSW play under the double blues.
Canberra plays under blue, yellow and white.
The cartography might not mean anything to you but Qeanbeyan is in N.S.W.

That's nice, but you know what isn't in NSW? The ACT.

Theoretically you'd imagine a Canberran team should represent, you know, Canberra, and not the amorphous "region" of everywhere south of Sydney and north of the Victorian border. If you want the team to represent NSW, then by all means, put a third team in Sydney, or wherever, and call them the Rams.

and the fact that they are nocturnal so only good for night games !!

Please explain !

Owls are a symbol that's pretty commonly used around Canberra to represent institutions and parts of the city to a lesser extent. The most famous example being the Belco Owl, which is a literal giant monument of an owl.

It's probably because owls have become loosely associated with democracy, and Canberra is the capital and all, but that's just speculation on my part.

In your opinion.

Being a Canberran you'd imagine that my opinion on what's best for Canberra is probably more valuable than most, no?

IMO you suggestions are ridiculous.

That's funny, because I haven't made any suggestions as far as I can recall. I've only relayed the suggestions that I've heard others make.

It also doesn't really matter what you think either. A Canberra team wouldn't really be for you, and appealing to the people that it's actually intended to represent should be it's first concern if it's going to be a success.

And nothing more lazy than the owl name.

So let's hear something creative and not lame like the owl and the pussycat.

Ah yes, the "just copy those other teams" guy calling other people's ideas lazy lol.

I don't know why I've been put into the position of defending owls either. Owls would make a better mascot than rams, and it's not even close, but they wouldn't be my first choice of the names that have been suggested either.

 

[Badger17]

I guess the mascot/identity depends a little on how you see the team engaging with the region outside Canberra. One of the most compelling arguments I’ve heard for a Canberra team, is the fact that you can create an elite talent pathway/hub for southern NSW/riverina which has historically generated a lot of talent.

Yes Canberra and SNSW border each other, but they are two different places, with wildly different cultures and attitudes. SNSW isn't really a coherent single region either, but rather a collection of regions and diverse communities spread over a truly giant area.

Trying to balance the needs and expectations of all the different regions would be an unmanageable balancing act. You'd be trying to be everything to everyone, and end up being nothing to anyone. So you can have either a Canberra/ACT/Capital Region team or a SNSW team, but you can't have both.

That's not to say that you couldn't have academies and pathways in Southern NSW, in fact it's a good idea, but the commercial side of the club would have no choice but to choose which customer base it wanted to target.

If the AFL seriously intends to use Canberra to "engage" Southern NSW or the Riverina then they're wasting their time. It needs to be a Canberra team for Canberra or seriously don't bother and put a third team in Perth instead, because the team for Southern NSW that's based in Canberra thing has been tried before and it doesn't work.

It would be nice if the team could appeal to people from outside Canberra itself. Owls screams of academia and politics to me, which might be appropriate in some circles in Canberra but maybe might fall on deaf ears outside it. The afl will want to be able to engage south NSW if they do place a team in Canberra.

Whether you like it or not academia and politics is a big part of Canberra, and you'd have to appeal to that upper middle class, public servant, young professional, yuppie, sort of demo if a Canberra club was to be successful. Is what it is.

Also I would argue against the rams being American. The LA rams can’t own an animal, and Australia has enough history with sheep farming to make the identity its own. In fact I would argue it’s quintessentially Australian.

I didn't say rams were American, or that Americans own rams. However, there's no denying that there's been a longstanding trend in Australia of aping American sports branding trends, which is just sad and lame. It's also undeniable that rams are widely associated with the LA Rams in the sporting context, and people would notice that if you called the team the Rams.

 

[loco3]

Appreciate your thoughts. I’m just trying to put myself in the shoes of the AFL, who I imagine will be considering the future growth of the game a great deal. I think they would actively look at Canberra as a way to gain a further foothold in NSW, despite the challenges that might result. Just look at GWS and how many communities they have tried to get them to cater to. I realise that may not produce a team that is distinctively Canberran. Will be interesting to see how they select a name when it comes to it. Maybe it will be a popular vote, open to people outside Canberra too? That could sway things.

What’s the history of Canberra teams failing to engage SNSW - Is that in regards to RL or RU? Do you think people in say Wagga, Batemans Bay would be more amenable to supporting a Canberra side given this is a market that is not already flooded with afl teams and pre-existing afl allegiances (despite there being interest)?

 

[RedV3x]

Chopping everything I say into sound bites and dodging the substance of the arguments I'm making is a waste of everybody's time.

So why are you doing it ?

Rams are a food source.

Rams can be a food source, but not usually.

Australian history sure, little or no relevance to Canberra though.

Canberra sits right in the middle of RAMS territory.

We can't be experts in everything.

As you've shown.

Both monikers have been embraced and are a source of

ridicule.

probably never having been here before...

Wrong again.

The Rams is

a considered a good name my many, maybe we can do better.

That's nice, but you know what isn't in NSW? The ACT.

Yes I know that and that's why I stated that the ACT plays under blue, yellow and white.
and do not play under the double blues of NSW.
.

Theoretically you'd imagine a Canberran team should represent, you know, Canberra,

Yes that would be the case.

and not the amorphous "region"

AFL clubs draw their support from over a wide, not just the nominal centere.

If you want the team to represent NSW, then by all means, put a third team in Sydney, or wherever, and call them the Rams.

Are you saying that we should have a 3rd Sydney AFL side as well as Canberra - gutsey call.

Being a Canberran you'd imagine that my opinion on what's best for Canberra is probably more valuable than most, no?

As you said "no".

That's funny, because I haven't made any suggestions as far as I can recall.

So you don't support the "owl" motion now.

Ah yes, the "just copy those other teams"

I said "be creative" I didn't say "copy"

it's not even close,

Yep, i don't think "owls" will even make the ballot box slip.

 

[RedV3x]

Trying to balance the needs and expectations of all the different regions would be an unmanageable balancing act.

Ask the Eagles and Dockers because they manage a region one third the size of Australia.

That's not to say that you couldn't have academies and pathways in Southern NSW, in fact it's a good idea

No different from a Nat Fyfe travelling from Lake grace to Perth.

the team for Southern NSW that's based in Canberra thing has been tried before and it doesn't work.

Please elaborate.

Whether you like it or not academia and politics is a big part of Canberra, and you'd have to appeal to that upper middle class, public servant, young professional, yuppie, sort of demo if a Canberra club was to be successful. Is what it is.

Maybe, but you cannot afford to exclude AFL loving fans just because they don't fit your focus group.

I didn't say rams were American, or that Americans own rams. However, there's no denying that there's been a longstanding trend in Australia of aping American sports branding trends, which is just sad and lame.

Not by the AFL.

It's also undeniable that rams are widely associated with the LA Rams in the sporting context,

Only people familiar with the NFL.

people would notice that if you called the team the Rams.

Like when West Coast chose the eagle in1986 whereas the Philadelphia Eagles stem from 1933 ?
I would hope that people would notice that if you called the Canberra team the Rams.

 

[catters05]

When will Canberra be announced?

 

[Aussie in exile]

When will Canberra be announced?

After it's confirmed that GWS won't be playing anymore games in Canberra

 

[Badger17]

Appreciate your thoughts. I’m just trying to put myself in the shoes of the AFL, who I imagine will be considering the future growth of the game a great deal. I think they would actively look at Canberra as a way to gain a further foothold in NSW, despite the challenges that might result. Just look at GWS and how many communities they have tried to get them to cater to. I realise that may not produce a team that is distinctively Canberran. Will be interesting to see how they select a name when it comes to it. Maybe it will be a popular vote, open to people outside Canberra too? That could sway things.

What’s the history of Canberra teams failing to engage SNSW - Is that in regards to RL or RU?

GWS is a great example of why trying to be everything to everyone is a bad idea. Setting aside the economics, all their presence in Canberra has done is hurt their growth in Western Sydney, and their failure to cut out a defined niche in Western Sydney has hurt them as well.

The history of Canberra teams trying to access the larger audience in SNSW is too long to put into a single post, but plenty of teams have tried it and it never ends well. The Brumbies are probably the best example though.

Long story short; from 96-04 they built up a strong ACT image and were averaging crowds about 20k in the early 00s. They were legitimately bigger than the Raiders for a while there. In 05 the ACTRU merged with both the SNSW Unions, changed the Brumbies name to just "The Brumbies", and started marketing heavily in SNSW in an attempt to appeal to the broader audience in NSW. It quickly backfired as the people in NSW didn't buy in, with most of those that were interested in Super continuing to support the Tahs, and it ended up being a major contributing factor to them falling off in the intervening years despite still being the most competitive Australian Super Rugby side for most of that time.

Do you think people in say Wagga, Batemans Bay would be more amenable to supporting a Canberra side given this is a market that is not already flooded with afl teams and pre-existing afl allegiances (despite there being interest)?

That isn't the experience in other sports at all.

The vast majority of people in Southern NSW who are inclined to support an AFL side will already have one, especially in places like the Riverina and along the Murray. People in SNSW also generally have a negative opinion of Canberra and Canberrans and little to no connection to Canberra other than rough geographical proximity, which hasn't traditionally made a natural fit for supporting Canberran sports teams.

Take the Raiders for example; I'd be surprised if the Raiders were in the top 5 most popular NRL sides in SNSW outside of a handful of places in the Southern Highlands and Brindies that closely boarder the ACT (Queanbeyan, Yass, a handful of other smaller towns, debatably Goulburn, etc). The further you get from Canberra the less popular they become on average as well, and I see no reason why this wouldn't be the same for an AFL team.

That's not to say that an ACT team wouldn't build a fanbase in SNSW at all, but you'll be disappointed if you're expecting a Canberran side to become a big player in most of SNSW in this lifetime. Put it this way, Collingwood, the Swans, Geelong, etc, would still be more popular in most of SNSW than a Canberra side in 50 years time.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Dillon was asked about the 20th team by AAP.

Summary:

• Dillon is confident on a 20th team entering at some point.
• Dillon isn't sold on an NT team.

20th team
“We have a power of work still to do on our 19th team and among the main focuses we have, that’s the key focus,” Dillon told AAP.

“What I will say, is there will be a time where we will expand from 19 teams to 20.

“Whether that’s in my time or someone else’s, that will certainly happen."

NT Team
Dillon says NT would be a “romantic” choice.

But while Dillon says the NT is “super important”, with annual games in Darwin and Alice Springs, he does not sound sold on the idea.

“There’s an appetite from the Territory for more games and so that’s something we’ll work with them on,” he said.

“What I would love to see more of is more talent coming from the Territory and making it onto AFL lists.”


Sounds like Dillon is on the same page as many on here. Calling the NT a romantic option shows he recognises the popularity, but isn't sold on its merits.

 

[Coolangatta]

Dillon was asked about the 20th team by AAP.

Summary:

• Dillon is confident on a 20th team entering at some point.
• Dillon isn't sold on an NT team.

20th team
“We have a power of work still to do on our 19th team and among the main focuses we have, that’s the key focus,” Dillon told AAP.

“What I will say, is there will be a time where we will expand from 19 teams to 20.

“Whether that’s in my time or someone else’s, that will certainly happen."

NT Team
Dillon says NT would be a “romantic” choice.

But while Dillon says the NT is “super important”, with annual games in Darwin and Alice Springs, he does not sound sold on the idea.

“There’s an appetite from the Territory for more games and so that’s something we’ll work with them on,” he said.

“What I would love to see more of is more talent coming from the Territory and making it onto AFL lists.”


Sounds like Dillon is on the same page as many on here. Calling the NT a romantic option shows he recognises the popularity, but isn't sold on its merits.

If they want more games in the NT, do Top End Round. And do Opening Round right.

Keep it at 23 games per season, everyone gets 10h,10a,3n.

Gather round stays in Adelaide, OR includes all teams and covers games in Newcastle, Sunshine Coast, Wagga Wagga, Coffs Harbour. Top End bumps up NT to 5 games per year (4 Darwin, 1 Alice); NQ gets 5 (3 Cairns, 1 each Townsville and Mackay).

vic clubs can still sell games to Auckland, Bunbury, wherever in the future.

Canberra joins as 20th club around 2031-33.

 

[Run n Spread]

Dillon was asked about the 20th team by AAP.

Summary:

• Dillon is confident on a 20th team entering at some point.
• Dillon isn't sold on an NT team.

20th team
“We have a power of work still to do on our 19th team and among the main focuses we have, that’s the key focus,” Dillon told AAP.

“What I will say, is there will be a time where we will expand from 19 teams to 20.

“Whether that’s in my time or someone else’s, that will certainly happen."

NT Team
Dillon says NT would be a “romantic” choice.

But while Dillon says the NT is “super important”, with annual games in Darwin and Alice Springs, he does not sound sold on the idea.

“There’s an appetite from the Territory for more games and so that’s something we’ll work with them on,” he said.

“What I would love to see more of is more talent coming from the Territory and making it onto AFL lists.”


Sounds like Dillon is on the same page as many on here. Calling the NT a romantic option shows he recognises the popularity, but isn't sold on its merits.

The NT more than pulls its weight in talent.
Far more than GWS or Canberra.
The NT is the romantic option as it's what people want.
Funnily enough he never mentioned Canberra

 

[Canberra Pear]

The NT more than pulls its weight in talent.

Nobody's questioning their output (per capita), but it's so far down the list of important factors for a team.

Far more than GWS or Canberra.

Again, it doesn't really matter.

But the NT has 18 current players, Canberra and SNSW has about 40.

The region is doing just fine with representation.

The NT is the romantic option as it's what people want.

Exactly, it's the romantic option because so many people want it, but it's unrealistic. If everybody wanted it and it made sense, it'd just be a good option.

Funnily enough he never mentioned Canberra

Because he was asked about the NT.

 

[Thailander]

2nd Brisbane team as the 20th sounds good to me. Anything but Canberra.

 

[Canberra Pear]

2nd Brisbane team as the 20th sounds good to me. Anything but Canberra.

Haha, why not Canberra?

We've got more unrepresented AFL fans than any other city. Surely they should have a team.

Edit: Never mind. You're just TigerLaird rebranded, bitter about Canberra because we kept shutting down a third Adelaide team.

 

[Coolangatta]

Haha, why not Canberra?

We've got more unrepresented AFL fans than any other city. Surely they should have a team.

Edit: Never mind. You're just TigerLaird rebranded, bitter about Canberra because we kept shutting down a third Adelaide team.

Absolutely.

And this is the stat I’d be most interested in if I was expanding beyond 20 teams, aside from whether there’s enough AFL fans in the first place to justify expansion.

Canberra checks both of those boxes.

What I’d be interested in learning going forward is whether Auckland, Newcastle and the Sunshine Coast are ever going to get to that point where there’s too many AFL fans to overlook.

Still think Melbourne could do with one or less teams but really I think it’s only St Kilda that are financially vulnerable at the moment.

You can’t really push out teams that are financially viable even if they are from an overcrowded market. But it does potentially make it harder for new markets to get a foot in the door as I would imagine the AFL is very hesitant in expanding too much.

 

[Thailander]

Haha, why not Canberra?

We've got more unrepresented AFL fans than any other city. Surely they should have a team.

Edit: Never mind. You're just TigerLaird rebranded, bitter about Canberra because we kept shutting down a third Adelaide team.

Oh no! Caught red-handed... 555

Jokes aside, I'm not against a ACT team as long as it's feasable. Same with a 3rd WA or QLD team or even a NZ team. .

And this is the stat I’d be most interested in if I was expanding beyond 20 teams, aside from whether there’s enough AFL fans in the first place to justify expansion.

I could see the league expanding to at least 24 teams in my lifetime.

Still think Melbourne could do with one or less teams but really I think it’s only St Kilda that are financially vulnerable at the moment.

Make North Melbourne the 3rd WA team and St Kilda the 3rd SA team.

 

[loco3]

St Kilda are an interesting one. Their branding is so unique, if they were ever moved I imagine there are only a few places they would genuinely suit. Maybe Newcastle, New Zealand or NT (if they used their red yellow and black strip - but they’d probably have to ditch the Saints). Can’t imagine a transplant to WA SA or Brisbane/Sunshine Coast working well

 

[kranger]

With the latest ABS population release today, the AFL shouldn’t worry itself with a 20th team, they should focus their resources into getting all those international immigrants into Aussie Rules.

National, state and territory population, June 2025

Statistics about the population and components of change (births, deaths, migration) for Australia and its states and territories

www.abs.gov.au

For as many people that live in some of the nominated locations for a 20th team, like ACT, NT, Newcastle, there is a similar number of people moving to Australia each year or every two years. Focus resources into getting these people and their future generations passionate about the existing teams.


Similarly, instead of a 3rd WA or SA team, focus the resources into getting more attention for the WAFL and SANFL and growing the second tier of Aussie Rules.

 

[Canberra Pear]

With the latest ABS population release today, the AFL shouldn’t worry itself with a 20th team, they should focus their resources into getting all those international immigrants into Aussie Rules.

National, state and territory population, June 2025

Statistics about the population and components of change (births, deaths, migration) for Australia and its states and territories

www.abs.gov.au

View attachment 2255799

For as many people that live in some of the nominated locations for a 20th team, like ACT, NT, Newcastle, there is a similar number of people moving to Australia each year or every two years. Focus resources into getting these people and their future generations passionate about the existing teams.
View attachment 2255803

Similarly, instead of a 3rd WA or SA team, focus the resources into getting more attention for the WAFL and SANFL and growing the second tier of Aussie Rules.

That's fair when talking about a third Perth/Adelaide/Sydney/second Brisbane team, but these new Australians can't be converted in the cities that don't have teams.

 

[kranger]

That's fair when talking about a third Perth/Adelaide/Sydney/second Brisbane team, but these new Australians can't be converted in the cities that don't have teams.

Next week, the ABS will release the latest data for City populations.

Based on the State population data released today, it seems like the population disparity between the big 6 cities is breaking further away from the cities without a team. That includes leaving Tasmania behind.

An increasing disparity makes it even harder for a team in the smaller cities to generate enough revenue to compete with the healthier existing clubs. That might be similar to the weaker Melbourne clubs, but do we really want more struggling clubs?

All of the other suggested locations should just be a secondary market for the existing teams. The only exception I might be open to for a Team 20 is Canberra.

Edit: though perhaps a Canberra team should not be a new team, but a relocation…