20th AFL Team

[Coolangatta]

No. 1 Sportsground is probably pretty comparable to Hands Oval in Bunbury. A couple of temporary stands would be fine for one game a year to get the ball rolling.

They probably wouldn't even get more than 10k for starters. And if that's too small, then it looks like a great sellout.

Yeah, as I said earlier today, you need all of these three things to pass the test for expansion: stadium, population, 3+ games being played a year for years as a litmus test.

Newcastle doesn’t have all of those, neither does the South West or the NT.

So, none of them can be taken seriously for expansion next decade, or even in the next few.

 

[RedV3x]

Yeah, as I said earlier today, you need all of these three things to pass the test for expansion: stadium, population, 3+ games being played a year for years as a litmus test.

I don't know why this thread drags on. Almost all people would see Canberra as the only serious contender a.t.m.

Newcastle doesn’t have all of those, neither does the South West or the NT. So, none of them can be taken seriously for expansion next decade, or even in the next few.

It's pointless mentioning any link to time with Newcastle because the AFL hasn't even done the preliminaries.
Auckland was well under way but that would require a major restart now.
A real shame considering the investment made.

 

[Diogenes]

Just looked a little further into Newcastle No 1 sportsground. It hosted some preseason games in the noughties with attendance of 3-5k.
The attendance records given are post its reconstruction (actually demolition) following the earthquake.

Newcastle Number 1 Sports Ground - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Coolangatta]

Canberra Pear I asked to have the Griffin emerging from a lake but you get the idea.

 

[Coolangatta]

 

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra Pear I asked to have the Griffin emerging from a lake but you get the idea.


View attachment 2360084

Could definitely get behind them! And definitely the bluest I've seen the lake

 

[Bjo187]

View attachment 2360380

I like the logo, but the jumper I always envisaged being blue and white stripes at the top, cutting off at about the naval with a red hoop then white under it, obviously royal blue too.

 

[Coolangatta]

10 teams each for the AFL and VFL - what could be simpler.
22 teams would see Tasmania move into the VFL.

For crossover,
Each team would play 9 games against each of the same conference teams.
Each team would play 5 games against 5 of the other conference teams alternating each year..
Each team would play 6 games against 6 of the same conference teams alternating over 3 years..

Hey, just coming back to this, because I do like this idea, would you have the AFL grand final be hosted by the highest seed or lock it in season prior?

Obviously you’d have the Super Bowl locked in rotationally and the VFL locked into Melbourne each year.

I think you could seed the AFL grand final, though, because you don’t want a western derby GF anywhere other than Perth, a showdown GF anywhere besides Adelaide, etc.

The Super Bowl you could rotate like this (say Canberra enters 2032):

2032: Adelaide
33: Melbourne
34: Sydney
35: Melbourne
36: Brisbane
37: Melbourne
38: Perth
39: Melbourne
40: Adelaide

Or you could lock in all three GFs so then you’d end up with something like Melbourne getting a GF every year and Super Bowl every year and Perth, Sydney, Brisbane, and Adelaide getting a Super Bowl every eight years and a GF every three years.

 

[RedV3x]

Hey, just coming back to this, because I do like this idea, would you have the AFL grand final be hosted by the highest seed or lock it in season prior?

As per usual highest seed.

Obviously you’d have the Super Bowl locked in rotationally and the VFL locked into Melbourne each year.

Yes

I think you could seed the AFL grand final, though, because you don’t want a western derby GF anywhere other than Perth, a showdown GF anywhere besides Adelaide, etc.

Exactly

The Super Bowl you could rotate like this (say Canberra enters 2032):

The criteria for hosting the supebowl could be by tender or rotation based on size.
So the only viable venues would be Perth, Adelaide, Sydney (?), Brisbane (new).
I don't imagine Canberra or Hobart would be big enough
The AFL could bargain with NSW to improve the situation in Sydney
and Melbourne not only has had it for too long it goes back to having a VFL GF every year.

 

[Coolangatta]

As per usual highest seed.



Yes



Exactly



The criteria for hosting the supebowl could be by tender or rotation based on size.
So the only viable venues would be Perth, Adelaide, Sydney (?), Brisbane (new).
I don't imagine Canberra or Hobart would be big enough
The AFL could bargain with NSW to improve the situation in Sydney
and Melbourne not only has had it for too long it goes back to having a VFL GF every year.

It also solves the problem of making it harder to win a flag.

You now get a 1/10 chance to win one, even two flags.

And I like the idea of moving Tasmania to the VFL conference if we get 22 teams.

Auckland and Darwin (latter, long shot) could also go into the VFL conference, while WA/SA/QLD/NSW/ACT goes in the other.

So you could have 24-26 teams in such a system, but I wouldn’t expect that to happen if it ever does for another 50+ years.

 

[loco3]

Love the idea of a rotating Super Bowl/grand final, with MCG hosting every 2nd year. The AFL could use this to seek upgrades for the SCG and maybe even a higher capacity for Optus one day. The interstate finals could be played at night/twilight and the MCG games in the afternoon for traditions sake. Could also do wonders for the games growth in NSW and Queensland.

Just on the new FA-style comp that the AFL is tossing up… I know there’s a lot of detail to be worked out, but I imagine a conference system would be a much preferred option with actual historical relevance (when we get to 20 teams) The VIC clubs could play for a VFL championship. That would go off

 

[Coolangatta]

Love the idea of a rotating Super Bowl/grand final, with MCG hosting every 2nd year. The AFL could use this to seek upgrades for the SCG and maybe even a higher capacity for Optus one day. The interstate finals could be played at night/twilight and the MCG games in the afternoon for traditions sake.

Just on the new FA-style comp that the AFL is tossing up… I know there’s a lot of detail to be worked out, but I imagine a conference system would be a much preferred option with actual historical relevance (when we get to 20 teams) The VIC clubs could play for a VFL championship. That would go off

Right. Only problem is if the Vic teams are all in one conference and they want teams from the same conference to play twice, then the Vic clubs would end up travelling even less than they do now.

You'd have to split them up into two divisions of five teams each, and likewise for the interstate clubs.

You could then have each conference have a finals system against each other and I do think the VFL championship would be popular and perhaps the IFL one, in time, especially if you get something like a showdown final.

This also works for long-term expansion. Can go to 4 divisions of 6 teams in 50+ years time, and thinking really far ahead, 6 divisions (3 in each conference) with 5 teams each eventually.

That's besides the point, though. The AFL should get brave with expansion, they're really only limited by what the talent pool can allow for and what markets are available to test or have the population to sustain a team.

I'd set the criteria to around ~500k, so no South West club or Darwin club for a long time. No Auckland etc either until they at least have an AFL standard ground to test them out with 2-3 games per year.

But I'd never say never to future expansion.

 

[Roylion]

View attachment 2360380

Wishful thinking obviously.

 

[loco3]

Right. Only problem is if the Vic teams are all in one conference and they want teams from the same conference to play twice, then the Vic clubs would end up travelling even less than they do now.

You'd have to split them up into two divisions of five teams each, and likewise for the interstate clubs.

You could then have each conference have a finals system against each other and I do think the VFL championship would be popular and perhaps the IFL one, in time, especially if you get something like a showdown final.

This also works for long-term expansion. Can go to 4 divisions of 6 teams in 50+ years time, and thinking really far ahead, 6 divisions (3 in each conference) with 5 teams each eventually.

That's besides the point, though. The AFL should get brave with expansion, they're really only limited by what the talent pool can allow for and what markets are available to test or have the population to sustain a team.

I'd set the criteria to around ~500k, so no South West club or Darwin club for a long time. No Auckland etc either until they at least have an AFL standard ground to test them out with 2-3 games per year.

But I'd never say never to future expansion.

I think 4 or more conferences becomes a little convoluted and difficult for the public to understand. Especially if the goal is to increase possible trophies (whilst making them meaningful). 2 is the sweet spot where you get 3 trophies to play for - each league and the overall final.

Yes, I guess you’d have to either play 4 opponents twice. Could play 2 from your conference and 2 from the other. There are no rules here.

But yes, generally agree. I see Canberra, Sunshine Coast and North Perth (sorry South West WA) as genuine contenders for inclusion (in that order) between 2030 and 2050. North Perth will work but it needs a little more population to ensure it’s a success and give the WAFC the confidence it will succeed given how entrenched the other two WA teams are.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think 4 or more conferences becomes a little convoluted and difficult for the public to understand. Especially if the goal is to increase possible trophies (whilst making them meaningful). 2 is the sweet spot where you get 3 trophies to play for - each league and the overall final.

Yes, I guess you’d have to either play 4 opponents twice. Could play 2 from your conference and 2 from the other. There are no rules here.

But yes, generally agree. I see Canberra, Sunshine Coast and North Perth (sorry South West WA) as genuine contenders for inclusion (in that order) between 2030 and 2050. North Perth will work but it needs a little more population to ensure it’s a success and give the WAFC the confidence it will succeed given how entrenched the other two WA teams are.

Yeah, fair call, as long as the number of teams in each conference remain even so each team in each conference has the same odds of winning a VFL or IFL flag and then possibly the AFL premiership as well.

So Tassie shuffle over to VFL @ 22 teams. If you keep expanding beyond that, you try to have 12 teams in each, etc.

Agree re: South West. If they had 500k, sure, but they don’t.

Sunshine Coast… it depends. I would never consider putting a team there until they had an AFL standard stadium seating about 20k and hosted 3-4 games per year there. Same thing with Auckland, Newcastle, or anywhere else. Trial run.

If the Sunny Coast can’t make that happen and make a deal, then the 3rd QLD team should be based in Brisbane IMO.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Every second year is still too many grand finals for Melbourne for real equity. I'd only be satisfied with Melbourne getting at most every third grand final, with two other cities in between. For example, in a six year cycle, Perth - Adelaide - Melbourne - Sydney - Brisbane - Melbourne and repeat.

 

[Purple Suit]

Every second year is still too many grand finals for Melbourne for real equity. I'd only be satisfied with Melbourne getting at most every third grand final, with two other cities in between. For example, in a six year cycle, Perth - Adelaide - Melbourne - Sydney - Brisbane - Melbourne and repeat.

Nah,
There are 10 teams out of 18, maybe 20 from Victoria. Every 2nd year is as close to fair as we ever hope of getting.

The stadium has to be over 50K to be considered. I recon a Sydney GF should be at Homebush and give them enough time to prep it. Just cycle through with the G every 2nd year. Make the states bid for rights to go first and fill the gap the MCG contract misses from the state coffers. They will get more money than the current MCG contract and they can just extend the current 2050 contract to 2070 without costing the MCG a cent, otherwise they have to go into the competitive bidding scenario in 2050 and lose money. The whole arrangement can start in 2030.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Nah,
There are 10 teams out of 18, maybe 20 from Victoria. Every 2nd year is as close to fair as we ever hope of getting.

Maybe, but every third year is just the maximum I would personally be satisfied with.

 

[Coolangatta]

The whole arrangement can start in 2030.

Nah, why wait? Every odd year to interstate.

Start 2027 with Adelaide, Sydney 2029, Perth 2031, Brisbane 2033 (won’t have new Gabba until 2032). And repeat.

Wishful thinking, though.

 

[LordLucifer]

Canberra Pear I asked to have the Griffin emerging from a lake but you get the idea.


View attachment 2360084

Very nice design, could be used by any new entity coming into the competition.

 

[Badger17]

Could definitely get behind them! And definitely the bluest I've seen the lake

Wait the blue is meant to be the lake! Then what is the green for?

 

[RedV3x]

Wait the blue is meant to be the lake! Then what is the green for?

The hope for greener pastures as in the Australian flag.

 

[Run n Spread]

The hope for greener pastures as in the Australian flag.

View attachment 2367626

There are greener pastures coming .
The Friday night game on the Gold Coast proved if you have a community behind things talent and atmosphere things can work.
The NT and Northern Australia has that ability and passion. Talent to burn. A team would simply take off.
The ACT is 40 years away minimum. Simply hasn't built the talent base or support

 

[Canberra Pear]

There are greener pastures coming .
The Friday night game on the Gold Coast proved if you have a community behind things talent and atmosphere things can work.
The NT and Northern Australia has that ability and passion. Talent to burn. A team would simply take off.
The ACT is 40 years away minimum. Simply hasn't built the talent base or support

Do you actually believe the stuff you spout? Gold Coast is a booming mid-sized city with a strong southerner population. If any comparison is to be made, it's to Canberra.

Canberra has Darwin beat on pretty much everything you've said. Sure, per capita, Darwin might win, but Greater Canberra is so much bigger that it still wins overall.

There were two Canberrans in the national draft. None from the NT. There are around 40 players from Canberra and Southern NSW. Whereas there's around 17-18 from the NT. Canberra has the talent base to support a team.

As for support, it's obvious that Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin. It's basic maths.

I know I keep falling for it, but you can't seriously think the NT beats Canberra in any comparison other than vibes.

 

[Run n Spread]

Do you actually believe the stuff you spout? Gold Coast is a booming mid-sized city with a strong southerner population. If any comparison is to be made, it's to Canberra.

Canberra has Darwin beat on pretty much everything you've said. Sure, per capita, Darwin might win, but Greater Canberra is so much bigger that it still wins overall.

There were two Canberrans in the national draft. None from the NT. There are around 40 players from Canberra and Southern NSW. Whereas there's around 17-18 from the NT. Canberra has the talent base to support a team.

As for support, it's obvious that Canberra has more AFL fans than Darwin. It's basic maths.

I know I keep falling for it, but you can't seriously think the NT beats Canberra in any comparison other than vibes.

You can't be serious.
Your not seriously suggesting Canberra has contributed more to the AFL talent pool than the NT?