20th AFL Team

[Bjo187]

Well the only way I could see that happening is Canberra Kangaroos and WA3 is team 20. I don’t see North being relocated, nor GWS because they’re a generational investment.

I’d love to see Canberra come in around 2033 but my concern is that if GWS doesn’t work out by early 2040s then they get shipped off to Canberra. Which means if that’s their plan and they want team 20 by early 2030s then they’ll look to WA3 especially with the dangling carrot of Optus.

Yep that's a well balanced competition.

North to Canberra (retain 3 Melb home games to keep the natives happy), WA3 and then teams like the Hawks, Saints and Melbourne playing 2 or 3 games in the under serviced areas. Areas such as the NT, perhaps in Newcastle etc.

Gold Coast to play 2 or 3 games in cairns, they should be increasing the supporter base in QLD instead of Darwin.

Basically the whole of Australia is then well covered with adequate content.

 

[Coolangatta]

If it were up to me? I’d go Tassie team 19, Canberra team 20 by about 2033 just in time for the new media deal. Sure you could try and dangle a carrot in front of North but you can’t force them to move.

Cut the cord with GWS and see how they go. If they fail, fold them and bring in WA3 then wait about 15 years before considering team 21 and 22. If they don’t, forget WA3 and wait about 20 years for the next expansion cycle.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

If it were up to me? I’d go Tassie team 19, Canberra team 20 by about 2033 just in time for the new media deal. Sure you could try and dangle a carrot in front of North but you can’t force them to move.

Cut the cord with GWS and see how they go. If they fail, fold them and bring in WA3 then wait about 15 years before considering team 21 and 22. If they don’t, forget WA3 and wait about 20 years for the next expansion cycle.

North to Canberra won’t work. This was mooted when we were playing home games there from 2002-2006. Canberra never accepted us; there was one particular game against the swans (I think in 06), where the swans had the overwhelming majority of the crowd. North went to GC the following year for a bigger deal, which broke all of our bridges with Canberra.

The level of support that GWS receives from Canberra now is far greater than what we ever experienced. I know that we are always candidate #1, although we’ve never been stronger off-field than now. On the surface it might seem the most obvious AFL machination to achieve what we’re discussing. In another 10+ years though anything could happen. When the Bears and Eagles started in the 80’s, I don’t reckon anyone would have tipped that a Brisbane-Fitzroy merger would occur just 10 years later.

 

[Coolangatta]

North to Canberra won’t work. This was mooted when we were playing home games there from 2002-2006. Canberra never accepted us; there was one particular game against the swans (I think in 06), where the swans had the overwhelming majority of the crowd. North went to GC the following year for a bigger deal, which broke all of our bridges with Canberra.

The level of support that GWS receives from Canberra now is far greater than what we ever experienced. I know that we are always candidate #1, although we’ve never been stronger off-field than now. On the surface it might seem the most obvious AFL machination to achieve what we’re discussing. In another 10+ years though anything could happen. When the Bears and Eagles started in the 80’s, I don’t reckon anyone would have tipped that a Brisbane-Fitzroy merger would occur just 10 years later.

Yep. It’s just a fun exercise to discuss long term expansion options but it’s pointless beyond team 20 at the moment which I’m sure they’ve considered. I can’t see it being anyone other than Canberra or WA3. But as you say, by 2030 when you’d think there’s been plans to get team 20 in, who knows which clubs will be doing well or not.

So we could see both but as you say, North in Canberra didn’t work before so why would it again? And they shouldn’t be on the chopping block if they’re doing fine off field.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Yep. It’s just a fun exercise to discuss long term expansion options but it’s pointless beyond team 20 at the moment which I’m sure they’ve considered. I can’t see it being anyone other than Canberra or WA3. But as you say, by 2030 when you’d think there’s been plans to get team 20 in, who knows which clubs will be doing well or not.

So we could see both but as you say, North in Canberra didn’t work before so why would it again? And they shouldn’t be on the chopping block if they’re doing fine off field.

There could even be an alternate reality where Albo doesn’t come through with the goods for stadium funding and the Tassie licence doesn’t get up. That would really throw a spanner in the works.

 

[Bjo187]

North never worked in Canberra because they were temporary and had been shopped around everywhere. If they were a permanent fixture the locals would take to them, especially over generations.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

North never worked in Canberra because they were temporary and had been shopped around everywhere. If they were a permanent fixture the locals would take to them, especially over generations.

North hasn't worked in Hobart either,wait for the crowds this upcoming season and that will be very clear.

 

[Seedsfan]

I think NZ is by far the biggest TV and merchandise market left. And kiwis would eventually get on board with AFL providing

1. the AFL stack the deck massively in favour of them… early success breeds interest. And kiwis love beating Aussies, let alone at their own sport

2. the team rotated around the country like a Tassie team would between Hobart and Launceston. Otherwise risks becoming a one city team

Would have to almost a national team wearing national colours of black and silver.

That might kill off any option for a second Kiwi team down the track but better to have one team dominating a market then a team start and then fold

A kiwi team would be a high risk, high reward scenario

I think the AFL are more likely to go with a Canberra team and then turn the Suns into a combined Nth QLD and NT team

Then the game is truly national

Look at the Warriors, nobody wants to play for them. This will be the issue if the AFL goes there even the Kiwis will want to leave

 

[Coolangatta]

I'd rather not see any Victorian club merge, relocate, or fold. It's a pity what happened to Fitzroy and South Melbourne, but what's done is done.

I also think it's financially a better idea to expand rather than redistribute markets, if the growth is there. If WA and SA expansion happens, I won't oppose it, but you're already preaching to the converted. North of the river and the south west isn't represented, nor is all of Adelaide and the outer regions but they're on board with the local teams already for the most part. The same cannot be said of other markets that have more growth potential.

So if all goes well in Victoria, I'd go:

19. Tasmania 2027
20. Canberra early to mid 2030s

Wait 20-30 years

21. Northern Territory
22. Sunshine Coast

Wait 15-20 more years

23. Hunter Valley
24. North Queensland

Alternatively, you could merge Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast into an "East Coast" team, and NT and NQLD into a "Northern Australia" team. This frees up the WA and SA market for a third team each i.e. South West Sharks, South Adelaide Panthers.

I'd be fine with that. But it should look something like that. Wouldn't bother about NZ.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

North to Canberra (retain 3 Melb home games to keep the natives happy), WA3 and then teams like the Hawks, Saints and Melbourne playing 2 or 3 games in the under serviced areas. Areas such as the NT, perhaps in Newcastle etc.

Gold Coast to play 2 or 3 games in cairns, they should be increasing the supporter base in QLD instead of Darwin.

Basically the whole of Australia is then well covered with adequate content.

Norths to Canberra won’t work. Norths members and directors won’t agree, and they are now in a far better financial position than when they rejected the Gold Coast relocation proposal. Norths also previously sold home games to Canberra and they never showed the commitment to our region that GWS showed. GWS has now established a long term (21 years by the time the current 10 year deal expires in 2032), and our government and GWS are both happy with this.

But agree that the future, post Tasmania’s AFL entry, will see Victorian teams sell a couple of games to secondary regional centres.

However, I am surprised that the AFL and Gold Coast have not worked together to have Gold Coast playing their 2 games in areas of Queensland, rather than Darwin. As it stands, Cairns does not have any AFL games this year as even financially strapped St Kilda has decided to play all their home games in Victoria, rather than renew the 1 game deal they had to play in Cairns.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

North to Canberra won’t work. This was mooted when we were playing home games there from 2002-2006. Canberra never accepted us; there was one particular game against the swans (I think in 06), where the swans had the overwhelming majority of the crowd. North went to GC the following year for a bigger deal, which broke all of our bridges with Canberra.

The level of support that GWS receives from Canberra now is far greater than what we ever experienced. I know that we are always candidate #1, although we’ve never been stronger off-field than now.

Agree 100%. Norths won’t ever relocate to Canberra, and we don’t want them either!

 

[Canberra Pear]

However, I am surprised that the AFL and Gold Coast have not worked together to have Gold Coast playing their 2 games in areas of Queensland, rather than Darwin. As it stands, Cairns does not have any AFL games this year as even financially strapped St Kilda has decided to play all their home games in Victoria, rather than renew the 1 game deal they had to play in Cairns.

I believe that was to get Darwin into their academy zone to boost their playing list. They've got Rosas and Joel Jeffrey so far.

Personally, I don't think they should be playing any home games away from the Gold Coast (except for preseason). Once Tasmania comes in, wouldn't be surprised if North and Hawthorn are both willing to sell a home game up there. St Kilda is bitter because they lost a winnable game in Cairns, but unless their financials turn around, wouldn't be surprised to see them back either.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Agree 100%. Norths won’t ever relocate to Canberra, and we don’t want them either!

I'm not an advocate for relocation, but if North did ever relocate to Canberra, I'd welcome them and immediately buy two 11-game memberships.

 

[Tigerlaird]

I'd rather not see any Victorian club merge, relocate, or fold. It's a pity what happened to Fitzroy and South Melbourne, but what's done is done.

Fitzroy's story was sad. I think South Melb got the better deal of having all of NSW to themselves for a long time.

A Hunter Valley team is interesting. I sorta feel that Canberra would basically be the spiritual 3rd NSW team. They have the population for a 3rd team but I feel Sydney is not ready for that.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I believe that was to get Darwin into their academy zone to boost their playing list. They've got Rosas and Joel Jeffrey so far.

Personally, I don't think they should be playing any home games away from the Gold Coast (except for preseason). Once Tasmania comes in, wouldn't be surprised if North and Hawthorn are both willing to sell a home game up there. St Kilda is bitter because they lost a winnable game in Cairns, but unless their financials turn around, wouldn't be surprised to see them back either.

Absolutely agree with you. Thought that Gold Coast could have positioned themselves as the alternative to Brisbane, as the second Queensland team, in parochial Queensland, and played “home” games that had been sold to Darwin in Cairns. Maybe something they might pursue when their academy zone in NT expires.

 

[Walshawk]

WA3 adds nothing to the national game. Pass.
It is all pretty simple.
2027
Tasmania enters
North Kangaroos move their 4 Tas games to NT (3 Darwin, 1 Alice) Take over Suns academy, get access to players
GC move their NT game to Cairns
Dees move their NT game to Newcastle
Hawks move 3 Tas games to Canberra (other to MCG)
West Sydney Giants play all games in Sydney (let try a second team properly before we condemn it as a failure)
Saints play a game in Albury
2032
Canberra enters
Hawks play a game in Auckland (other 2 to MCG)

Australasia sorted.

 

[Coolangatta]

WA3 adds nothing to the national game. Pass.
It is all pretty simple.
2027
Tasmania enters
North Kangaroos move their 4 Tas games to NT (3 Darwin, 1 Alice) Take over Suns academy, get access to players
GC move their NT game to Cairns
Dees move their NT game to Newcastle
Hawks move 3 Tas games to Canberra (other to MCG)
West Sydney Giants play all games in Sydney (let try a second team properly before we condemn it as a failure)
Saints play a game in Albury
2032
Canberra enters
Hawks play a game in Auckland (other 2 to MCG)

Australasia sorted.

I like that.

I’d be open minded to teams 21 and 22 if all of that transpired as you’ve laid out.

Maybe around 2050s/60s try for NT (though I acknowledge it’d be difficult and possibly would never work) and a Hunter Valley team playing games in Newcastle and Gosford if footy interest grew there from the Dees games. If not, maybe Sunshine Coast if SEQ footy grows. Or NZ. Two of those three.

Suppose I’m jumping the gun way too much there but your plan is a good one, and that’s why it won’t happen hahaha.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

WA3 adds nothing to the national game. Pass.
It is all pretty simple.
2027
Tasmania enters
North Kangaroos move their 4 Tas games to NT (3 Darwin, 1 Alice) Take over Suns academy, get access to players
GC move their NT game to Cairns
Dees move their NT game to Newcastle
Hawks move 3 Tas games to Canberra (other to MCG)
West Sydney Giants play all games in Sydney (let try a second team properly before we condemn it as a failure)
Saints play a game in Albury
2032
Canberra enters
Hawks play a game in Auckland (other 2 to MCG)

Australasia sorted.

I like your plan of having Norths play games in NT after Tasmania enters as T19, and Gold Coast playing any games away from Metricon in Cairns. However, I think there is pressure by their members to play all games in Victoria, so doubt that they will agree to 4 games in NT. I think Roos playing maybe 3 in NT with it being reduced to 2 as they improve their finances is more realistic?

I also support GWS and love that they are playing in Canberra. Given the 21 year relationship they have been having with our region (when the new 10 year deal expires in 2032), and the co-location model they have with Canberra, I doubt that they will be leaving Canberra to Hawthorn.

 

[Coolangatta]

I like your plan of having Norths play games in NT after Tasmania enters as T19, and Gold Coast playing any games away from Metricon in Cairns. However, I think there is pressure by their members to play all games in Victoria, so doubt that they will agree to 4 games in NT. I think Roos playing maybe 3 in NT with it being reduced to 2 as they improve their finances is more realistic?

I also support GWS and love that they are playing in Canberra. Given the 21 year relationship they have been having with our region (when the new 10 year deal expires in 2032), and the co-location model they have with Canberra, I doubt that they will be leaving Canberra to Hawthorn.

Yeah didn’t they extend the Canberra contract until 2032?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Yeah didn’t they extend the Canberra contract until 2032?

Yes- the longest commitment any AFL club has ever made to our region!

 

[BigChippa52]

dees would not they have a special connection to the nt that started with Jim stynes the fans love us and we support a team up there the dees are to the nt like the roos and hawks are to tassie expect we get more supporters to the games

 

[Canberra Pear]

Yes- the longest commitment any AFL club has ever made to our region!

If Canberra gets Team 20, I'm happy with the Giants sticking around until then. No point messing it about for just a few years.

If Canberra gets passed over for Team 20, I would prefer a Victorian team take over. They just have more flexibility.

I'd rather a Victorian team that could guarantee five men's games (including a preseason game), than GWS, who can only guarantee three.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

If Canberra gets Team 20, I'm happy with the Giants sticking around until then. No point messing it about for just a few years.

If Canberra gets passed over for Team 20, I would prefer a Victorian team take over. They just have more flexibility.

I'd rather a Victorian team that could guarantee five men's games (including a preseason game), than GWS, who can only guarantee three.

But which Victorian team would guarantee 5 games here in Canberra? Norths members and their Directors want to play in Victoria, and may grudgingly agree to play 2-3 games interstate temporarily till their financial circumstances improve. Bulldogs already have an ongoing deal to play both their games in Ballarat, and Melbourne just has 1 game they play interstate in Alice. Even financially struggling St Kilda decided not to sell their one and only interstate game to Cairns, and will play all their games in Victoria- leaving Cairns and North Queensland with no AFL games in 2023. Hawthorn has 4 games that they currently play interstate and which will be impacted by Tasmania’s entry as Team 19. They may still want to play a couple in Launceston given the long term relationships and support they have built up- especially if the financial logic of the new stadium in Hobart means that the new Tasmanian team plays most of it’s games in Hobart. Of the 5 Victorian clubs that sell games to secondary markets, Hawthorn is big enough and strong enough to play all their games in MCG/ Marvel. I imagine their Victorian members will also not want to sell interstate games?

 

[madmug]

I'd rather not see any Victorian club merge, relocate, or fold. It's a pity what happened to Fitzroy and South Melbourne, but what's done is done.

I also think it's financially a better idea to expand rather than redistribute markets, if the growth is there. If WA and SA expansion happens, I won't oppose it, but you're already preaching to the converted. North of the river and the south west isn't represented, nor is all of Adelaide and the outer regions but they're on board with the local teams already for the most part. The same cannot be said of other markets that have more growth potential.

So if all goes well in Victoria, I'd go:

19. Tasmania 2027
20. Canberra early to mid 2030s

Wait 20-30 years

21. Northern Territory
22. Sunshine Coast

Wait 15-20 more years

23. Hunter Valley
24. North Queensland

Alternatively, you could merge Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast into an "East Coast" team, and NT and NQLD into a "Northern Australia" team. This frees up the WA and SA market for a third team each i.e. South West Sharks, South Adelaide Panthers.

I'd be fine with that. But it should look something like that. Wouldn't bother about NZ.

So according to your plan, Qld will end up with 4 teams, yet a growing WA still sits on 2 teams!!!

WA is footy heartland. Look at the population projections over this time period & tell me 2 WA teams still makes sense.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

But which Victorian team would guarantee 5 games here in Canberra? Norths members and their Directors want to play in Victoria, and may grudgingly agree to play 2-3 games interstate temporarily till their financial circumstances improve. Bulldogs already have an ongoing deal to play both their games in Ballarat, and Melbourne just has 1 game they play interstate in Alice. Even financially struggling St Kilda decided not to sell their one and only interstate game to Cairns, and will play all their games in Victoria- leaving Cairns and North Queensland with no AFL games in 2023. Hawthorn has 4 games that they currently play interstate and which will be impacted by Tasmania’s entry as Team 19. They may still want to play a couple in Launceston given the long term relationships and support they have built up- especially if the financial logic of the new stadium in Hobart means that the new Tasmanian team plays most of it’s games in Hobart. Of the 5 Victorian clubs that sell games to secondary markets, Hawthorn is big enough and strong enough to play all their games in MCG/ Marvel. I imagine their Victorian members will also not want to sell interstate games?

I’m sure Hawthorn would want to continue playing games in Launceston. However, most Tasmanians don’t support Hawthorn and they want them out. The state government is committing $12m p.a. to the Tasmanian team; they’re not going to keep funding Hawthorn’s FIFO games as well so I’d say the best case for them is they forge an agreement to play an away game in Launceston each year. Agree with everything that you said about Canberra. Maybe there’ll be a Victorian based club who does a deal to play a couple of games in Canberra each season, in addition to the Giants, to increase the AFL content in the ACT. Back in the day Hawthorn and St Kilda were both playing games in Launceston so there’s a precedent.