20th AFL Team

[Run n Spread]

I never tried to claim Canberra's weather as a pro as you just did for Darwin.

But yeah, for most of the season, Canberra's weather is more conducive to playing footy than Darwin.

It's winter and it's still 30-degrees-plus all week in Darwin.

Been a long autumn
Some of the best games of the year thus far have been played in 30+. Whole gather round was high 30s.
Last 4 weeks when winter hut have been low scoring slogs.
But anyway does Canberra need a roof? If Hobart and Darwin do supposedly than fairs fair?

 

[Canberra Pear]

But anyway does Canberra need a roof? If Hobart and Darwin do supposedly than fairs fair?

It's not about fairness though. It's about viability.

I don't necessarily agree that Hobart needs a roof. But Hobart was told they need a roof because they offered it, and it's their way to crowbar open the next round of expansion. Tasmania will also be hitting their ceiling the moment enter and a roof helps ensure crowds stay high.

Darwin has torrential rain and a tiny population. They need every bit of help they can get. Crowds will be low enough as it is.

A roof is a nice-to-have for Canberra. But not a necessity like it would be for Darwin.

 

[Run n Spread]

It's not about fairness though. It's about viability.

I don't necessarily agree that Hobart needs a roof. But Hobart was told they need a roof because they offered it, and it's their way to crowbar open the next round of expansion. Tasmania will also be hitting their ceiling the moment enter and a roof helps ensure crowds stay high.

Darwin has torrential rain and a tiny population. They need every bit of help they can get. Crowds will be low enough as it is.

A roof is a nice-to-have for Canberra. But not a necessity like it would be for Darwin.

Darwin does not have torrential rain for the afl footy season . That's dry season. If a roof is a necessity for Darwin it's an occupational health and safety issue for Canberra.
Hobart never offered a roof. AFL demanded it.
The NT population of passionate footy fans can easily cater for a team.
GWS has not got a foothold to spite having however many million. A successful anything needs groundswell know how and support.
Look at any sphere in life or any economic entity. Population is down the list of priorities for success.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

It will appeal to some not to others.
Even some players now are moving to gc from Melbourne for better weather and an outdoor lifestyle.
Aside from that there are no shortages of players willing to move to live their dream
Dangle enough money and odds increase

Id be OK to given a NT based team even an additional salary similar how to Swans were allowed with COLA.

I dont have the numbers on me but doesnt the Alice have some of the highest crime rates in Australia, if not the world? (refer to link below) I just remember a violent protests going on last year ?

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/alice-springs-ranked-in-top-20-worlds-most-dangerous-cities-according-to-mid2024-crime-index-canberra-safest-in-australia/news-story/3f4d4a43e86b0a6a3cea1e8e1534104e

I feel like population too works against NT. And a bit similar to Tasmania (sorry Tasmanians), retention could be a huge issue and Im not sure if the AFL right now in their current climate as others have said in this post, can afford to have a start up franchise running at too heavy a loss or be given handouts repetitively.

And dont bring up the start-up costs as well, as Ive been a bit of a pro for a 3rd WA side , Id imagine the costs to start a NT franchise would be comparable for something like flights alone.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Darwin does not have torrential rain for the afl footy season . That's dry season.

Wet season runs through April. Do you expect to play no games there for the first third of the season?

The NT population of passionate footy fans can easily cater for a team.
GWS has not got a foothold to spite having however many million. A successful anything needs groundswell know how and support.
Look at any sphere in life or any economic entity. Population is down the list of priorities for success.

Population is down the list after you reach the basic minimum. Any "economic entity" knows you need a sizeable customer base before opening up shop there.

Cobden, Victoria, punches well above its weight (and the NT's) for current AFL players per capita. Would you put a team there? Of course not, because it's only got a 1800 people. Which means population is an important factor.

Darwin doesn't have that minimum population either, which is why it has to rely on the romanticism of the bid rather than facts and figures.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Been a long autumn
Some of the best games of the year thus far have been played in 30+. Whole gather round was high 30s.
Last 4 weeks when winter hut have been low scoring slogs.
But anyway does Canberra need a roof? If Hobart and Darwin do supposedly than fairs fair?

It's not about fairness though. It's about viability.

I don't necessarily agree that Hobart needs a roof. But Hobart was told they need a roof because they offered it, and it's their way to crowbar open the next round of expansion. Tasmania will also be hitting their ceiling the moment enter and a roof helps ensure crowds stay high.

Darwin has torrential rain and a tiny population. They need every bit of help they can get. Crowds will be low enough as it is.

A roof is a nice-to-have for Canberra. But not a necessity like it would be for Darwin.

The Rugby Codes don't need a roof on their stadium so why does AF?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Darwin does not have torrential rain for the afl footy season . That's dry season. If a roof is a necessity for Darwin it's an occupational health and safety issue for Canberra.
Hobart never offered a roof. AFL demanded it.
The NT population of passionate footy fans can easily cater for a team.
GWS has not got a foothold to spite having however many million. A successful anything needs groundswell know how and support.
Look at any sphere in life or any economic entity. Population is down the list of priorities for success.

The rainy season in Darwin generally ends around April, so it wouldn't be feasible to play any AFL game until then.
The rainy season in Cairns generally ends about May so couldn't have any AFL until at least then

 

[Run n Spread]

The Rugby Codes don't need a roof on their stadium so why does AF?

In essence they don't.
But the AFL have put that condition on Tassie due to the unsuitable weather mainly related to the spectical and crowd comfort.
Yet Canberra is just as cold so shouldn't they have a roof as well?
The most successful round this year was gather round played in a heatwave in 34 degree + weather. So a small upgrade only is needed.
Further 23000 will outgrow Tassie quicker.
A 23000 capacity is ideal for Darwin. It will be 2/3 full for all games (better than both Suns and gws games and full for finals and blockbusters.
Also suits any future growth.
It is a low cost viable passionate and further profitable move.

 

[Aussie in exile]

In essence they don't.
But the AFL have put that condition on Tassie due to the unsuitable weather mainly related to the spectical and crowd comfort.
Yet Canberra is just as cold so shouldn't they have a roof as well?
The most successful round this year was gather round played in a heatwave in 34 degree + weather. So a small upgrade only is needed.
Further 23000 will outgrow Tassie quicker.
A 23000 capacity is ideal for Darwin. It will be 2/3 full for all games (better than both Suns and gws games and full for finals and blockbusters.
Also suits any future growth.
It is a low cost viable passionate and further profitable move.

Is the game and the players going soft asking for roofs?

 

[Run n Spread]

Is the game and the players going soft asking for roofs?

Don't think the players are asking for it.
The game? Maybe pampered. Fan comfort and spectical are a thing thou.
Don't think a roof should be a deal breaker but it is a stipulation that is put in

 

[Aussie in exile]

In essence they don't.
But the AFL have put that condition on Tassie due to the unsuitable weather mainly related to the spectical and crowd comfort.
Yet Canberra is just as cold so shouldn't they have a roof as well?
The most successful round this year was gather round played in a heatwave in 34 degree + weather. So a small upgrade only is needed.
Further 23000 will outgrow Tassie quicker.
A 23000 capacity is ideal for Darwin. It will be 2/3 full for all games (better than both Suns and gws games and full for finals and blockbusters.
Also suits any future growth.
It is a low cost viable passionate and further profitable move.

It wouldn't be hard to get bigger crowds than GWS and the Sun's, but I don't think it's feasible to have a AFL club there.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The most successful round this year was gather round played in a heatwave in 34 degree + weather. So a small upgrade only is needed.

A weird thing to cherry pick. Gather Round would've been successful regardless. But the heat was one of the biggest complaints.

A 23000 capacity is ideal for Darwin. It will be 2/3 full for all games (better than both Suns and gws games and full for finals and blockbusters.

2/3 of 23k is 15.2k. There's no way Darwin is averaging that over a full season. That's almost 11% of the city rocking up every fortnight.

That's also less than the Suns. The Suns only averaged 15.1k last year, but that was ironically dragged down by Darwin crowds. They averaged 16.9k on the Gold Coast.

The Giants averaged 12k at Engie last year. A Darwin team might be able to equal that for the first season. But long term it's very unlikely that a Darwin team would be able to average higher crowds than the Giants.

 

[Coolangatta]

Canberra would get bigger crowds than Darwin on average, especially if Manuka is upgraded, and it’s not even close.

You’d have to be a clown to deny that.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

Dont know if its me but the noise mostly Ive come heard the last 2 years for the 20th team has been from: Norwood , given how successfully Gather Round has been, the NT and now this WA 3rd side.

I dont know if its me but watching this is as a bit of neutral, there doesnt seem to be that much noise around a Canberra side?

 

[rdrdrdrd]

Dont know if its me but the noise mostly Ive come heard the last 2 years for the 20th team has been from: Norwood , given how successfully Gather Round has been, the NT and now this WA 3rd side.

I dont know if its me but watching this is as a bit of neutral, there doesnt seem to be that much noise around a Canberra side?

I'd relocate GWS to Canberra - rename them the Eastern Giants and give Albo an Eastern Giants scarf to wear when he attends their games.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Dont know if its me but the noise mostly Ive come heard the last 2 years for the 20th team has been from: Norwood , given how successfully Gather Round has been, the NT and now this WA 3rd side.

The noisiest for bids for the 20th team are the ones that aren't viable. They're noisy because they have to be.

• NT isn't viable without massive government funding. Their own scoping report showed otherwise the AFL would have to pay them as much as the Giants and Port combined.
• Norwood isn't viable because there's not enough room in Adelaide for a third team. Norwood is a big SANFL club, but would royally struggle in the shadows of Crows and Port.
• WA3 is viable, but all the noise has been about a South West team, which isn't viable.
• I've even heard noise from Cairns. Equally as unviable.

The only two viable bids are Canberra and a team from metro Perth. Both of which I haven't heard much noise.

I dont know if its me but watching this is as a bit of neutral, there doesnt seem to be that much noise around a Canberra side?

Canberra is definitely quieter than the others you mentioned, but there is definitely momentum. I've seen an increase in local articles questioning about a team (they usually coincide with a game here) and on local social media.

Our chief minister (basically our premier) has a fine line to walk. He doesn't want to be seen as too pro-AFL in a town that has two rugby teams, with both pushing for a brand new rectangular stadium.

But at the same time, he has said and done things that show he would be on board. He has said on multiple occasions that Canberra would be the logical spot for the team. And he's also pushing to upgrade Manuka to 20k (under the guise of helping cricket).

Canberra's bid isn't screaming from the rooftops, because it doesn't have to. I would like it to be more noisy, but as long as these things are happening quietly, it's stronger than all the noisier bids.

 

[RedV3x]

Dont know if its me but the noise mostly Ive come heard the last 2 years for the 20th team has been from: Norwood

It's you.
'

given how successfully Gather Round has been,

How is that linked to SA3 ?

the NT

Darwin playing exhibition teams like Canberra.

and now this WA 3rd side.

No noise here.

I dont know if its me but watching this is as a bit of neutral, there doesnt seem to be that much noise around a Canberra side?

It's you.

 

[Coolangatta]

There’ll be a lot more to come with talks about a 20th team once the stadium for Tassie is underway. Long way to go yet.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

The noisiest for bids for the 20th team are the ones that aren't viable. They're noisy because they have to be.

• NT isn't viable without massive government funding. Their own scoping report showed otherwise the AFL would have to pay them as much as the Giants and Port combined.
• Norwood isn't viable because there's not enough room in Adelaide for a third team. Norwood is a big SANFL club, but would royally struggle in the shadows of Crows and Port.
• WA3 is viable, but all the noise has been about a South West team, which isn't viable.
• I've even heard noise from Cairns. Equally as unviable.

The only two viable bids are Canberra and a team from metro Perth. Both of which I haven't heard much noise.



Canberra is definitely quieter than the others you mentioned, but there is definitely momentum. I've seen an increase in local articles questioning about a team (they usually coincide with a game here) and on local social media.

Our chief minister (basically our premier) has a fine line to walk. He doesn't want to be seen as too pro-AFL in a town that has two rugby teams, with both pushing for a brand new rectangular stadium.

But at the same time, he has said and done things that show he would be on board. He has said on multiple occasions that Canberra would be the logical spot for the team. And he's also pushing to upgrade Manuka to 20k (under the guise of helping cricket).

Canberra's bid isn't screaming from the rooftops, because it doesn't have to. I would like it to be more noisy, but as long as these things are happening quietly, it's stronger than all the noisier bids.

I read this article which hasn't got a mention from these threads:

A capital idea? Can the AFL afford a 20th team and in Canberra?

Ranked Australia’s #1 young university. UTS offers globally recognised degrees, strong industry ties, and career-ready learning in the heart of Sydney.

www.uts.edu.au

All really viable points that I never really considered. Main points are: population, economics (higher disposable income), TV Rights. Disposable income being the big mention there.

The AFL has always been priority to boost the NSW markets and I only feel that assisting ACT goes hand-in-hand in assisting both markets.

What will be interesting to me is to see the crowd this week for GWS v Gold Coast on at 1:10PM at Engie. A game like that drawing something like 9,000 or less would ring some alarm bells for AFL House. That same game could probably draw in a full house in Canberra.

Ill admit I dont know too much about the Riverina area or Broken Hill , maybe you could give the NGA talent pool to Canberra as a start-up franchise.

 

[Badger17]

The noisiest for bids for the 20th team are the ones that aren't viable. They're noisy because they have to be.

• NT isn't viable without massive government funding. Their own scoping report showed otherwise the AFL would have to pay them as much as the Giants and Port combined.
• Norwood isn't viable because there's not enough room in Adelaide for a third team. Norwood is a big SANFL club, but would royally struggle in the shadows of Crows and Port.
• WA3 is viable, but all the noise has been about a South West team, which isn't viable.
• I've even heard noise from Cairns. Equally as unviable.

The only two viable bids are Canberra and a team from metro Perth. Both of which I haven't heard much noise.



Canberra is definitely quieter than the others you mentioned, but there is definitely momentum. I've seen an increase in local articles questioning about a team (they usually coincide with a game here) and on local social media.

Our chief minister (basically our premier) has a fine line to walk. He doesn't want to be seen as too pro-AFL in a town that has two rugby teams, with both pushing for a brand new rectangular stadium.

But at the same time, he has said and done things that show he would be on board. He has said on multiple occasions that Canberra would be the logical spot for the team. And he's also pushing to upgrade Manuka to 20k (under the guise of helping cricket).

Canberra's bid isn't screaming from the rooftops, because it doesn't have to. I would like it to be more noisy, but as long as these things are happening quietly, it's stronger than all the noisier bids.

Making lots of noise doesn't get you anywhere this early in the process anyway.

The AFL won't seriously start considering it's options for a 20th team for at least a couple years yet, and likely longer than that. So what would be the point in making a lot of noise? It's only going to fall on deaf ears anyway.

You're much better off working behind the scenes to position yourself so you're ready to make a strong case for your city if the time comes, which, perhaps incidentally, is effectively what the ACT is trying to do by courting CA and the BBL who have expressed interest in expanding. Using that push for BBL and Sheffield Shield sides as instigation for investment is sensible in Canberra's case, but it'd be nice if CA would stop flirting and decide whether it actually wants to expand or not.

BTW; not to sound like a broken record, but League and Union fans aren't/wouldn't be angry about the government trying to court the AFL. Not directly anyway.

What they're angry about is that the stadium they were promised for 27 years isn't going to be built, and their current stadium outlived it's useful lifespan well over a decade ago.

Bruce is stuffed and should have been replaced at least a decade ago, but it wasn't and now there's effectively no plan to replace it at all. Upgrading/building new facilities for leagues that don't even have local teams is just insult to injury, but the anger itself isn't really directed at the AFL, CA, or the concept of local AFL and BBL sides, it's at Barr and the Labour-Greens coalition for allowing the situation to deteriorate so badly, and effectively towing everybody along for a couple decades.

If this was America the Raiders and Brumbies would have at least considered relocating by this point.

 

[Aussie in exile]

There’ll be a lot more to come with talks about a 20th team once the stadium for Tassie is underway. Long way to go yet.

Probably 20 years away at the very least.

 

[catters05]

Probably 20 years away at the very least.

Canberra will slot in not long after the devils. As mentioned above, everyone’s waiting for the Hobart stadium issue to sort out and once it does and Devils plus Hurricanes are locked into stadium, then Canberra AFL and BBL team will be launching at Manuka……. IMO

 

[Coolangatta]

Canberra will slot in not long after the devils. As mentioned above, everyone’s waiting for the Hobart stadium issue to sort out and once it does and Devils plus Hurricanes are locked into stadium, then Canberra AFL and BBL team will be launching at Manuka……. IMO

I think so, too. Dillon did not sound keen on WA3 last year.

AFL boss rejects talk of third WA team

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon has shut down talks over a proposed third team in WA with the footy boss saying ‘a lot of work would have to be done.’

thewest.com.au

I disagree with some of what he says there but ultimately, team 20 probably is going to be up to the AFL and who they want.

I don’t think they’ll want to stay on 19 for 5+ years, so it can’t really be Brisbane 2 or Sydney 3.

It’s going to either be a heavily subsidised NT or the ACT.

 

[Bjo187]

This state's population is growing faster than anywhere in Australia

Western Australia's population surges past 3 million people, with the state taking the gong for the fastest-growing jurisdiction in the country.

www.abc.net.au

Some interesting numbers here. Tasmania actually went backwards in population which isn't great. I do feel a footy team will help with this though.

 

[davidgoes4wce]

This state's population is growing faster than anywhere in Australia

Western Australia's population surges past 3 million people, with the state taking the gong for the fastest-growing jurisdiction in the country.

www.abc.net.au

Some interesting numbers here. Tasmania actually went backwards in population which isn't great. I do feel a footy team will help with this though.

Sicily, Eddie McGuire discussions in the past but I havent visited Tasmania before but Id imagine retention would be a huge issue.

Dont know but for a young person right now its desirable to live in the main 5 cities of Aus: Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane. I dont know for a kid thats grown up their whole life in a Melbourne or Perth and then having to relocate for a minimum of 3 years. Start up clubs like: Freo, GWS and Gold Coast had huge retention problems in their first 10 years and I see little to see things changing. You dont want it to be a franchise where top tier teams cherry pick the top-end talent.

I dont include Gold Coast in those 5 cities above as its rare to see the likes of a David Swallow stay there pretty much for their whole careers.Geelong is also a bit different, as the club culture is strong and only an hour away from Melbourne.