21 disposals 10 marks enough for the Otten haters?

[Paladin]

See this is an area I think we could get smarter in as a whole.

Play either player according to match up.
Like what Otten brings but Id prefer Hartigan on Buddy.

Good point horses for courses.

What we normally do is drop a runner and squeeze them all in because they are great guys and are playing well. Which results in Otten being hidden in a pocket without a role and the opposition sweeping away every ground ball with ease.

 

[Magma]

See this is an area I think we could get smarter in as a whole.

Play either player according to match up.
Like what Otten brings but Id prefer Hartigan on Buddy.

yeah i would agree, but i feel otten just reads the play better than hartigan. hartigan definitely has the physical attribute advantage, but to me that doesnt mean much if you're out of position in some way.

 

[marty36]

No issue playing talks, so long as they work well as a unit & some have pace/gut run/can apply pressure.

We have performed well with Tex, JJ, Gov & Lynch because Gov is explosively quick & Lynch runs all over the ground. Otten can only replace Tex or JJ up forward as wrong balance when he plays with them. They get in each other's way.

No issue with Otten replacing Hartigan, with Talia & Lever down back... unless the opposition has a short forward line on a fine day.

Don't think it matters too much against bottom teams I suppose we need to look at GWS Geelong Sydney As they look like our opposition come the pointy end


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[Paladin]

yeah i would agree, but i feel otten just reads the play better than hartigan. hartigan definitely has the physical attribute advantage, but to me that doesnt mean much if you're out of position in some way.

Hartigan not playing as well as he did last year either.

 

[skittlebrew]

He's slower than dial up internet, that's my major concern.

 

[marty36]

He's slower than dial up internet, that's my major concern.

So was Ben Rutten


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[Big Crow]

Love the Otten story. If he played for one of the big Vic sides then the media would be running with this like a stolen VCR.

Andy has legitimately earned his spot, and has performed well in most games. He's possibly exposed for strength one on one if asked to fill the Hartigan role, but does look to be useful in defence. He has a fair bit to offer, and I hope he keeps being given the opportunity.

 

[Ramify]

Good point horses for courses.

What we normally do is drop a runner and squeeze them all in because they are great guys and are playing well. Which results in Otten being hidden in a pocket without a role and the opposition sweeping away every ground ball with ease.

Exactly. We do it up forward also.
Take Geelong at Skilled for instance. We go in with the same forward structure time and time again knowing full well the Cats have the gamplan to beat it.
Mix it up, open it up, and drop a tall for that game. Add a leading small who pressures and see what happens.

 

[John Who]

Otten's value is not as a key position player but more a utility player. People need to realise the difference. If you're comparing him to Harto as a backman or a Walker as a forward, then that is an unfair comparison. He plays more the 3rd tall in defense and/or attack, and also played in the ruck on a few instances. He has value in that when a player needs an extended break, or if a player gets injured, Otten can cover a lot of the holes.
Ottens marking ability is a bit understated also, as I think he's one of our better markers in the team. In both our recent home games in the wet, Otto's been marking them really well.
So it's more the issue of speed vs versatility, which do we need more of on a given day versus a given team?

 

[Magma]

Hartigan not playing as well as he did last year either.

very true also.

 

[mistylake]

i'd have him over hartigan, otten seems to understand where the ball is going.

And what to do with it.
So many times you see a guy going for a moving ball with an opposition player right on there hammer. Otten's decision to tap it to a team mate rather than gather then get tackled, before being able to dispose of the ball well was something I doubt Hartigan would contemplate doing. Pretty happy with his game, but the dogs were also on the ropes in that second half.
Time will tell.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Him and Jacobs were then only one clunking contested marks when Gov was out.

 

[Scorpus]

I'd like to see Otten up against an opponent, which is what Hartigan was doing. Against the Bulldogs he largely played without an opponent.

I fear that without Hartigan, we're only left with Talia and Kelly as strong one-on-one defenders. Lever and Otten are great at reading the play, positioning themselves, intercepting and supporting other defenders, but both can get toweled up in defensive duels.

I wouldn't want Otten or Lever trying to play against someone like Jonathan Patton, and that's why I'd still prefer Hartigan (in form) in the side

 

[Simmo28]

What does Otten need to do to not be dropped and satisfy the haters as soon as someone comes back in to a key position role?

He plays forward he plays back, he does everything the club asks of him and is shown no appreciation.

McGoverns a star so I understand he is an instant starter but you make room for Otten in the team. He is composed under pressure, never wastes the footy.

He is a much more composed and skilled footballer than Hartigan.

Ottten is starting 22. Not sure with our current (available) squad how anyone could disagree with that.


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[Golumless]

What does Otten need to do to not be dropped and satisfy the haters as soon as someone comes back in to a key position role?

He plays forward he plays back, he does everything the club asks of him and is shown no appreciation.

McGoverns a star so I understand he is an instant starter but you make room for Otten in the team. He is composed under pressure, never wastes the footy.

He is a much more composed and skilled footballer than Hartigan.

I don't get the point of this thread.

 

[Simmo28]

I don't get the point of this thread.

Don't pull at that thread


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[fabs33]

People hate Otten? How is that even possible after all he's been through? It's like hating a puppy, it's just not possible.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

I was glad when he was replaced in the forward line by Gov but I also supported his replacement of Hartigan. There's no hate there from me but it is about team balance and matchups. If we had a full squad to choose from there would be several unlucky players. We can only play 22.

 

[Cleric]

To be fair, when he was dropped he had been pretty bad. He is slower to turn than Rebel Wilson.

 

[Vhaluus]

I don't get the point of this thread.

It allows him to invent an argument being made against him so it's easier for him to be right.

If he posted in the other threads where discussion on Otten actually went on it'd be much harder to construct his strawman.

 

[Vhaluus]

To be fair, when he was dropped he had been pretty bad. He is slower to turn than Rebel Wilson.

Hey now careful, posts like that might stop her getting more movie contracts and she'd have to sue you for defamation.

 

[mick500]

I don't get the point of this thread.

What's so hard to understand. It was a direct question...

"What does Otten need to do to not be dropped and satisfy the haters as soon as someone comes back in to a key position role?"

It allows him to invent an argument being made against him so it's easier for him to be right.

.

No need to invent an argument, plenty of people were calling for him to be dropped. Soon as there's an injury he comes back in does his job and then when the injured player is ready to return people call for otten to be dropped again. I was asking if 21 disposals and 10 marks is enough to satisfy those people that maybe he deserves a permanent spot?

Happy to see most people want him in the side permanently in the backline in place of hartigan.

 

[Vhaluus]

What's so hard to understand. It was a direct question...

"What does Otten need to do to not be dropped and satisfy the haters as soon as someone comes back in to a key position role?"




No need to invent an argument, plenty of people were calling for him to be dropped. Soon as there's an injury he comes back in does his job and then when the injured player is ready to return people call for otten to be dropped again. I was asking if 21 disposals and 10 marks is enough to satisfy those people that maybe he deserves a permanent spot?

Happy to see most people want him in the side permanently in the backline in place of hartigan.

You're changing your argument. Your accusations in the first post went well beyond wanting him dropped.

 

[marty36]

What's so hard to understand. It was a direct question...

"What does Otten need to do to not be dropped and satisfy the haters as soon as someone comes back in to a key position role?"




No need to invent an argument, plenty of people were calling for him to be dropped. Soon as there's an injury he comes back in does his job and then when the injured player is ready to return people call for otten to be dropped again. I was asking if 21 disposals and 10 marks is enough to satisfy those people that maybe he deserves a permanent spot?

Happy to see most people want him in the side permanently in the backline in place of hartigan.

Hartigan will have time against him a long break then regain form in the SANFL

All depends at Otten's form ATM

Keath and Dear are the only realistic replacements we have in the twos


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[Thetrader15]

yeah i would agree, but i feel otten just reads the play better than hartigan. hartigan definitely has the physical attribute advantage, but to me that doesnt mean much if you're out of position in some way.

Otten is great playing the Chad Cornes / Nathan Bassett all by myself role, but not so great as a def when he is on someone.

A much better fwd, but IMO only, not good enough against the best teams