Past #23: Ben McKay - gone to * as RFA - NMFC awarded Band 1 pick #3 compo

[Devington]

100% agree. Not so much 2017. But definitely 2018 and 2019.

I was a bit lacking with my description, because you're right about those years. I suppose I just lump together all the years between the sacking of veterans to when we definitively entered a rebuild. '17 we looked to be actually going down that path to a large degree, and the bookend of 2020 is such an anomaly that it's probably unfair to even consider it within the context of other years (with the exception of the fact that offseason was the one we bit the rebuild bullet.)

The board has escaped blame unfairly I think.

Though I also believe they have done very well in off field matters. Especially the girls team

How much does the current board resemble the 2016 one? IIRC it's mostly changed. Either way while I largely agree with you, I'm glad they have started (and it is only a start) to clean up the mess they helped create.

It's the perfect rebuttal. The Bullies smashed the draft and are reaping the rewards.

Ok, so that's one club in one year. What about the others?

I don't even know how we rank compared to them all, but I don't think saying that one of the better teams of the last 5 years once got better bang for their buck with similar picks is really much of a kill shot.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

We are expecting to play Corr, McKay & Tarrant in the same back 6. I see no reason why we couldn’t have played McKay, Tarrant and Scooter together, especially coming off a bottom 4 season.

Did you miss Majak Daw's 2018?

We were even playing EVW in the first part of the year (maj, thompson, tarrant and evw). So not sure how McKay was going to fit in while Tarrant, Thompson, and Majak (who had a breakout year). Yes he should have played at the end of the season when Tarrant needed to go in for surgery.

2019 was his chance but unfortunately his body had other other ideas. Durdin got his chance instead.

 

[shinboner magic]

It's the perfect rebuttal. The Bullies smashed the draft and are reaping the rewards.

Yeah Joyce fanboys can’t fathom you can get decent players at picks in the 20/30s

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Ok, so that's one club in one year. What about the others?

Well 2015 would be the dogs again with Dunkley, Marcus Adams and Bailey Williams.

 

[Psicosis]

Did you miss Majak Daw's 2018?

We were even playing EVW in the first part of the year (maj, thompson, tarrant and evw). So not sure how McKay was going to fit in while Tarrant, Thompson, and Majak (who had a breakout year). Yes he should have played at the end of the season when Tarrant needed to go in for surgery.

2019 was his chance but unfortunately his body had other other ideas. Durdin got his chance instead.

Hindsight is a double edge sword isn’t it KT. My issue was with a complete breakdown in direction from a list perspective. We had moved on all our veterans (Boom, Drew etc), finished 4th last in 2017 & tried to top up and go again.

Meanwhile we had a bloke who is likely going to become an AA Full Back playing behind a guy who has since been delisted.

Does it matter now? Probably not, Ben has re-signed and we have a clear understanding as to where we are at.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You asked for better players taken at similar picks by a club. I provided. It doesn’t suit your narrative, so you dismiss. And the cycle continues.

I asked you to compare clubs with similar draft hands in those drafts.

Look, if you stated that you were frustrated by the team falling short and you were happy to concede that a different approach gives you hope of a better outcome, then I could respect that. It's simplistic, but it is honest.

However, when you (and others) attempt to validate this intellectually with nothing more than unjustified scapegoating, then you are left with a very weak hand.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I asked you to compare clubs with similar draft hands in those drafts.

Look, if you stated that you were frustrated by the team falling short and you were happy to concede that a different approach gives you hope of a better outcome, then I could respect that. It's simplistic, but it is honest.

However, when you (and others) attempt to validate this intellectually with nothing more than unjustified scapegoating, then you are left with a very weak hand.

It's not "hope" of a better outcome. In hindsight it is a better outcome.
If you were honest and admitted that our recruiters pulled the wrong rein, then you'd garner more respect.
It happens, we move on. But do not be an intellectual lightweight and try to argue all the "ifs, buts and maybes" would have led to a better outcome.
What happened happened, we ****ed up, but we won't learn anything from it by making bullshit excuses.

 

[Psicosis]

I asked you to compare clubs with similar draft hands in those drafts.

Look, if you stated that you were frustrated by the team falling short and you were happy to concede that a different approach gives you hope of a better outcome, then I could respect that. It's simplistic, but it is honest.

However, when you (and others) attempt to validate this intellectually with nothing more than unjustified scapegoating, then you are left with a very weak hand.

We just have different ideas of what is good list management Snake.

 

[DuckYeah]

Surely this isn't that meek polite kids account?

Spoiler

View attachment 1150124

i’d agree with you. Although, * yeah is rather polite these days.. if he said “* yeah, now suck my balls you media dogs” i’d probably say he isnt that polite kid

 

[ferball]

We are expecting to play Corr, McKay & Tarrant in the same back 6. I see no reason why we couldn’t have played McKay, Tarrant and Scooter together, especially coming off a bottom 4 season.

Because Maj was looking like he could become the best intercepting backman in history by halfway thru the year.

 

[ferball]

Hindsight is a double edge sword isn’t it KT. My issue was with a complete breakdown in direction from a list perspective. We had moved on all our veterans (Boom, Drew etc), finished 4th last in 2017 & tried to top up and go again.

Meanwhile we had a bloke who is likely going to become an AA Full Back playing behind a guy who has since been delisted.

Does it matter now? Probably not, Ben has re-signed and we have a clear understanding as to where we are at.

This is the trouble with hindsight.

At the end of that year no one could have predicted Maj's future based on reasoned expectations.

 

[the flying ham]

Hindsight is a double edge sword isn’t it KT. My issue was with a complete breakdown in direction from a list perspective. We had moved on all our veterans (Boom, Drew etc), finished 4th last in 2017 & tried to top up and go again.

Meanwhile we had a bloke who is likely going to become an AA Full Back playing behind a guy who has since been delisted.

Does it matter now? Probably not, Ben has re-signed and we have a clear understanding as to where we are at.

No it doesnt matter now. He also played behind a guy who has since retired. See how it easy it is?

 

[the flying ham]

This guy should be in future captain calculations

 

[Le Grille]

i’d agree with you. Although, fu** yeah is rather polite these days.. if he said “fu** yeah, now suck my balls you media dogs” i’d probably say he isnt that polite kid

If he did that I’d start building a statue


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Durdin
Nielsen
Vickers-Willis
McKay

Took him 4 goes and 4x1st/2nd rounders, but he got there in the end. I’m glade he was persistent tbh.

This stuff's easy to say in hindsight, but EVW showed plenty before persistent injuries cost him, and in the context of that draft at the time Durdin was almost universally considered an excellent pick. I put down Durdin's 'failure' down to a combination of things: development, coaching, personal attitude etc.

Yeah, Nielsen, and another supposed key defender in Declan Watson were bizarre, although not as bizarre as Josh Williams, but as far as the drafting aspect goes, hindsight is a pointless lens through which to analyse it.

 

[King Corey]

I have no problem with our list management prior to Jan 2017. Post that it was a disaster from the actual list management, coaching and just as importantly the board.

We were rebuilding then topping up within 2 years. Messaging, cohesion and execution was a mess.

At least we are now finally all pulling in the same direction.

I see it like this too and list management should be viewed separately to drafting to some extent.

Circa 2014 Robbie Tarrant was no sure thing and wasn't even a regular defender yet, Scott Thompson had plenty of good football left but had gone past 30 and Nathan Grima's body could never be relied on. The logic of looking to sure up the key defensive spots was sound - though I felt at the time going all in with all 3 picks was a bit much.

Nielson felt far too much of a stretch but based on evidence available at the time the other decisions made sense. Durdin was a skillful highly regarded junior with genuine key size and EVW was smart on and off field and was a potential Firrito replacement.

The 2015 picks after McKay all failed but each (excepting Wagner) was taken where they were rated in prior analysis and each had solid reasons for their selection. There was practically nobody on this board complaining about Clarke or Hibberd at the time. Wagner as mentioned was the only stretch and the start of our NEAFL obsession.

2016 drafting we should wear on the chin. The luck of Larkey and Zurhaar producing some good football patched over the cluster**** of our 2nd round picks as we again reached for NEAFL players with obvious inadequacies for no good reason.

Where I think the list management erred was after the "reset" in 2016. That was the time to move out some players and bolster our 2nd and 3rd rounds for a few more swings. Ditto 2017 we seemed to go all eggs in the big fish basket and seemed to spare no thought to improving our draft position as a result. The 2018 "Tarryn" pick for instance could've been shopped for another swing in the 2017 first round.

Polec, Tyson, Pittard and even Gaff similarly while good players in their own right didn't really have a place in a rebuilding side at the $/trade cost they posed. I can live with Hall and Campbell as both came essentially free and offered either depth or some potential upside for negligible outlay.

 

[DesertRoo]

I see it like this too and list management should be viewed separately to drafting to some extent.

Circa 2014 Robbie Tarrant was no sure thing and wasn't even a regular defender yet, Scott Thompson had plenty of good football left but had gone past 30 and Nathan Grima's body could never be relied on. The logic of looking to sure up the key defensive spots was sound - though I felt at the time going all in with all 3 picks was a bit much.

Nielson felt far too much of a stretch but based on evidence available at the time the other decisions made sense. Durdin was a skillful highly regarded junior with genuine key size and EVW was smart on and off field and was a potential Firrito replacement.

The 2015 picks after McKay all failed but each (excepting Wagner) was taken where they were rated in prior analysis and each had solid reasons for their selection. There was practically nobody on this board complaining about Clarke or Hibberd at the time. Wagner as mentioned was the only stretch and the start of our NEAFL obsession.

2016 drafting we should wear on the chin. The luck of Larkey and Zurhaar producing some good football patched over the cluster**** of our 2nd round picks as we again reached for NEAFL players with obvious inadequacies for no good reason.

Where I think the list management erred was after the "reset" in 2016. That was the time to move out some players and bolster our 2nd and 3rd rounds for a few more swings. Ditto 2017 we seemed to go all eggs in the big fish basket and seemed to spare no thought to improving our draft position as a result. The 2018 "Tarryn" pick for instance could've been shopped for another swing in the 2017 first round.

Polec, Tyson, Pittard and even Gaff similarly while good players in their own right didn't really have a place in a rebuilding side at the $/trade cost they posed. I can live with Hall and Campbell as both came essentially free and offered either depth or some potential upside for negligible outlay.

I don’t have any problems with strategy of picking up all defenders. It’s what we’re doing with the midfield at the minute. If it paid off, it could be seen as a master stroke having three key backs for a decade, while we stack the midfield.
I think most supporters see the dumping of players for a rebuild, picking up LDU and then going all in for a flag as the stupid part. Unforgivable in fact. I’m just glad we got some people in to correct in before it went even more pair shaped.

We were pretty much where Carlton is now, not good enough for top four, ageing list with no where near enough talent coming through to ever be top four.. they’re going to have to cut a lot of fat but I’m not sure the supporters will be onside.

 

[amaz199]

So how good is Ben McKay?

 

[ferball]

Where I think the list management erred was after the "reset" in 2016. That was the time to move out some players and bolster our 2nd and 3rd rounds for a few more swings. Ditto 2017 we seemed to go all eggs in the big fish basket and seemed to spare no thought to improving our draft position as a result. The 2018 "Tarryn" pick for instance could've been shopped for another swing in the 2017 first round.

We moved on ten or eleven players at the end of 2016. Nearly as many as last year. (Last year also had mandated list cuts.)

So how many more picks? And who?


Also the players we moved on weren't the ones who won games for us, (except Boomer, who genuinely did at times that year.) We lost those players to injury. So not going full rebuild wasn't as stupid as it looks with hindsight.

 

[Snake_Baker]

So how good is Ben McKay?

 

[Horizons_00]

So how good is Ben McKay?

Best player on our list ATM.

 

[Kangaroo Cat]

Best player on our list ATM.

This season maybe, i still have hope that lmac will take some names when he gets back

 

[Horizons_00]

This season maybe, i still have hope that lmac will take some names when he gets back

You’re right. Lmac is a star!

 

[Kangaroo Cat]

You’re right. Lmac is a star!

We have forgotten him a little this year

 

[ferball]

Best player on our list ATM.

Cunners is a gun too but Buckets is pushing it.