Player Watch #23: Ben McKay -

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AdmiralBenson

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Don't think every tall can just be compared to Tarrant as the typical way it works out.

Tarrant had major injuries that put him back considerably. For every Tarrant there's plenty that bomb out regardless of time.

I'm hopeful he can make it and become quality,, but i don't think it's a certainty at this stage like some seem to think.
 

the flying ham

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Don't think every tall can just be compared to Tarrant as the typical way it works out.

Tarrant had major injuries that put him back considerably. For every Tarrant there's plenty that bomb out regardless of time.

I'm hopeful he can make it and become quality,, but i don't think it's a certainty at this stage like some seem to think.
There is a possibility, but is funny to see how many have wiped him like a dirty arse when it is proven that, more often that not, tall defenders take time.

I said on the Durdin thread that Rance and McGovern at a similar stage looked a long way off being senior footballers. I'm not suggesting that Durdin or McKay become those two, but that even some of the Premier tall defenders took time to develop. Perhaps it is too early to call on our two 1st round picks. Much like tarrant, daw, mcgovern, rance.

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AdmiralBenson

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There is a possibility, but is funny to see how many have wiped him like a dirty arse when it is proven that, more often that not, tall defenders take time.

I said on the Durdin thread that Rance and McGovern at a similar stage looked a long way off being senior footballers. I'm not suggesting that Durdin or McKay become those two, but that even some of the Premier tall defenders took time to develop. Perhaps it is too early to call on our two 1st round picks. Much like tarrant, daw, mcgovern, rance.

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As previous I'm not saying he won't make it and yes of course it's generally the case time is required for big guys.

I'm just not quite as confident as others that it's a given he will be the star based on time alone. He needs to keep improving.
 

Shermanator

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Just quietly, I don't expect a queue in front of his manager's office in the offseason. Yes he has talent, and yes I'd like him to stay, but to suggest we are holding him back is ludicrous. He should continue to develop nicely, and has time on his side. Won't be going anywhere.
Yeah agree, but if Carlton chase him and are willing to pay overs then we have to seriously weigh it up.
 

King Corey

Moderator
Jun 9, 2001
22,367
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AFL Club
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Player Statistics Comparison​
Name​
Team​
Defender​
Position​
Defender​
4​
Career Games​
139
Gippsland Power​
Origin​
Bendigo Pioneers​
December 24, 1997​
Date of Birth​
April 25, 1989​
21yr 5mth​
Age​
Turned 22 in 2011​
201cm
Height​
196cm​
95kg​
Weight​
97kg
Last Drafted In​
Round 1, Pick #21​
Last Draft Position​
Round 1, Pick #15​
Last Drafted By​
2019​
Stats for Season​
2011​
3​
Games​
7

Robbie had a grand total of 4 more senior games at the same age and that was in a body 2 inches shorter and more developed.

Ben has shown more in the VFL than Robbie had at the corresponding age.

Cool your heels people.
 

Mcarcherey

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Oct 10, 2014
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A couple of posts later...



🤔
the fact that i rate him higher than a 4th and the fact clubs won't trade trade anything higher than a 4th for him aren't mutually exclusive.

i'm simply saying imho other clubs won't offer higher than a 4th based on the evidence out there - especially if he requests the trade himself.

it doesn't mean i don't rate him or see him as a potential tarrant-like gun.
 

king of the road

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I’m not making a judgement one way or another at this stage (although I don’t believe he’ll reach the heights some on here believe he will), BUT:
If the argument regarding his slowish progress is because of the time required to develop given his maturity and size - then why is this not the case for his identical twin brother?

While not all Australian, Harry’s putting in respectable games in the seniors and contributing reasonably well. The same can’t be said of Ben.

Admittedly there are injuries and pneumonia- but when he had games early on - he wasn’t good at all.
 

AdmiralBenson

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Harry is miles ahead, if they weren't brothers noone would compare them.

Remember Harry was nearly pick 1 though, so it's probably playing out in a manner expected so far.

Still, plenty of time to turn things around but yes he has a lot of work to do and a fair bit of sugar coating being added by some imo.
 

Hearts to hearts

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 16, 2001
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
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Player Statistics Comparison​
Name​
Team​
Defender​
Position​
Defender​
4​
Career Games​
139
Gippsland Power​
Origin​
Bendigo Pioneers​
December 24, 1997​
Date of Birth​
April 25, 1989​
21yr 5mth​
Age​
Turned 22 in 2011​
201cm
Height​
196cm​
95kg​
Weight​
97kg
Last Drafted In​
Round 1, Pick #21​
Last Draft Position​
Round 1, Pick #15​
Last Drafted By​
2019​
Stats for Season​
2011​
3​
Games​
7

Robbie had a grand total of 4 more senior games at the same age and that was in a body 2 inches shorter and more developed.

Ben has shown more in the VFL than Robbie had at the corresponding age.

Cool your heels people.
I'm guessing most people here are ok being patient. Question is, how patient is Ben if another club was intrerested and chatting to him about senior game time? (Hope he's keeping an eye on the Preuss example if he thinks about greener grass.)
 

King Corey

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I’m not making a judgement one way or another at this stage (although I don’t believe he’ll reach the heights some on here believe he will), BUT:
If the argument regarding his slowish progress is because of the time required to develop given his maturity and size - then why is this not the case for his identical twin brother?

While not all Australian, Harry’s putting in respectable games in the seniors and contributing reasonably well. The same can’t be said of Ben.

Admittedly there are injuries and pneumonia- but when he had games early on - he wasn’t good at all.
GameDisposalsMarksComments
Tarrant
1​
10​
3​
McKay
1​
9​
1​
Knocked out during game
Tarrant
2​
5​
1​
McKay
2​
9​
4​
Tarrant
3​
21​
8​
McKay
3​
7​
4​
Tarrant
4​
11​
1​
McKay
4​
5​
2​

Tiny sample size for comparison (4 games) but bit tough to make a "not good at all" call on Ben.

Ben was in front of Robbie after 1st 2 games.

Robbie broke through statistically in game 3 but you need to look at the team stats to see why this is an anomaly. Rawlings, Swallow, McMahon, Tarrant, Anthony, S.Thompson and Pedersen all got over 20 possessions each. You had 3 defenders exceeding 20 possessions which was a bit unusual. I mean bloody Cam Richardson got 15 possessions. So this game (round 1 vs WC 2011) was clearly an exception.

Take that out and they're roughly on par after 4 games and Ben's 2019 games were under conditions where our midfield exerted little defensive pressure while Robbie was forging his craft with Swallow and Rawlings both more than capable of running both ways.
 

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King Corey

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I'm guessing most people here are ok being patient. Question is, how patient is Ben if another club was intrerested and chatting to him about senior game time? (Hope he's keeping an eye on the Preuss example if he thinks about greener grass.)
Of course, but that's a factor the club can't control. I have some grievance with the way club managed our young talls last year (and listening to McKay and Larkey interviewed so did they). But hopefully they're looking at the post-Scott era as a new beginning and buying into the future.

My thoughts are towards those judging a 200+cm kid after 4 games including 3 in a basket case of a senior team spread across 24 months.
 

AdmiralBenson

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No one is judging anything from what I've read.

For that exact reason with basically nothing shown either way yet (other than a Tarrant comparison, which might be an outlier) i don't know how "all will be fine in time" holds any better "he might not make it".

I hope he does but I've seen little to suggest he is a lock or something special to be so confident.
 
Last edited:

King Corey

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No one is judging anything from what I've read.

For that exact reason with basically nothing shown either way yet (other than a Tarrant comparison, which might be an outlier) i don't know how "all will be fine in time" holds any better "he might not make it".

I hope he does but I've seen little to suggest he is a lock or something special.
He looks a good natural judge of the ball in flight and strong mark in the VFL and shows good aggression in contests. He also hasn't been in any senior side for 4 quarters where the team played with any cohesion that allowed him to play as a developing 3rd tall or key defender under reasonable conditions.

The ideal time for some exposure would've been in the latter part of 2018 where he'd have been able to enjoy Majak chopping a lot of high balls while having support of one of Tarrant or Thompson in a key.

In my opinion there are more pluses than minuses for him so far.
 

EDFL follower

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My kids play at the same junior club that he played at and I’ve come across his career stats - all matches from under 10s up to and including this years VFL games but no AFL games
234 games 97 goals
For comparison Harry Mckay
205 games 240 goals
 

AdmiralBenson

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He looks a good natural judge of the ball in flight and strong mark in the VFL and shows good aggression in contests. He also hasn't been in any senior side for 4 quarters where the team played with any cohesion that allowed him to play as a developing 3rd tall or key defender under reasonable conditions.

The ideal time for some exposure would've been in the latter part of 2018 where he'd have been able to enjoy Majak chopping a lot of high balls while having support of one of Tarrant or Thompson in a key.

In my opinion there are more pluses than minuses for him so far.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.

I'll also counter that he jumps vertically up to spoil rather than attack the footy, seems very dodgy with ball in hand and he's been around a while now. It's not his first year.

Again, i think there is every chance he'll come good. But i also wouldn't be surprised if he isn't the Tarrant has become on the basis that apparently all talls become guns if given enough years.

It's simply not correct (case study - Lachie Hansen)

To me it's too early but i certainly don't regret picking him in draft.
 

King Corey

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My kids play at the same junior club that he played at and I’ve come across his career stats - all matches from under 10s up to and including this years VFL games but no AFL games
234 games 97 goals
For comparison Harry Mckay
205 games 240 goals
Is that fair dinkum? I'd have guessed Harry had more junior games because of Ben opting out of playing for a bit.
 

King Corey

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I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.

I'll also counter that he jumps up to spoil rather than attack the footy, seems very unsure with ball in hand and he's been around a while now. It's not his first year.

Again, i think there is every chance he'll be as good as you claim. But i also wouldn't be surprised if he isn't like as good as Tarrant has become and apparently all talls become guns if given years.

It's simply not correct (case study - Lachie Hansen)

To me it's too early but i certainly don't regret picking him in draft.
Fair points. I'm not saying I'll be putting down any hard earned on him reaching 50 games but unfortunately picking key talls at a young age is a crapshoot. Even the highly rated talls drafted early in the modern era (McCartin, Boyd, Schache, Dowler et al) can turn out relative busts. So you pick them and hope more than any other position.

I'm not actually forecasting him to be as good as Tarrant more that Tarrant had surprisingly little good senior performance displayed by the same age.
 

AdmiralBenson

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Fair points. I'm not saying I'll be putting down any hard earned on him reaching 50 games but unfortunately picking key talls at a young age is a crapshoot. Even the highly rated talls drafted early in the modern era (McCartin, Boyd, Schache, Dowler et al) can turn out relative busts. So you pick them and hope more than any other position.

I'm not actually forecasting him to be as good as Tarrant more that Tarrant had surprisingly little good senior performance displayed by the same age.
Tarrant was significantly more hampered injury wise, and then when played was in the most difficult position on the ground (chf)

Absolutely if he were to bust be far from the highest one going around. In fact i think most bust more than dominate (unlike "draft pros" claim so special etc).

I like him don't get me wrong. I just don't buy the everything is going fine just yet.
 
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Uber Roo

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I know for a fact that he was extremely peed off he wasn’t getting games in the latter half of last year
If he doesn’t play any more for the rest of this year, it’ll very interesting to see how it plays out.
We can sit back and say , “he’s not quite ready”, but does Ben believe this ?



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Groin guru

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It's really simple. An opportunity was there and he got sick. Durdin has benefited from that and has been waiting longer. Both Durdin and McKay are essential to our future especially with question marks over Majak, EVW's injuries, and Nielson getting the flick.

I'm sure Ben isn't stupid enough to whine about not getting games this year when it has been out of his and North's hands. Like KC said, McKay should have been given games at the end of last season (especially with Tarrant reportedly being played with an injury).

It all depends on how the season plays out. If we are pushing for finals McKay has to push out Durdin. If we aren't, bring McKay in with Durdin and if Thompson/Tarrant have injuries get them in for surgery so they are ready to go for next years pre-season
 

the flying ham

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I’m not making a judgement one way or another at this stage (although I don’t believe he’ll reach the heights some on here believe he will), BUT:
If the argument regarding his slowish progress is because of the time required to develop given his maturity and size - then why is this not the case for his identical twin brother?

While not all Australian, Harry’s putting in respectable games in the seniors and contributing reasonably well. The same can’t be said of Ben.

Admittedly there are injuries and pneumonia- but when he had games early on - he wasn’t good at all.
You discuss his slow development then counter with injuries and pneumonia. You have countered your own argument.

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koshari

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My kids play at the same junior club that he played at and I’ve come across his career stats - all matches from under 10s up to and including this years VFL games but no AFL games
234 games 97 goals
For comparison Harry Mckay
205 games 240 goals
You would be well aware then that he was a defender at warragul in his senior year then, hardly surprising a chb has kicked less goals than a fwd.
 

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