Review 24 - Ben Stratton (2019)

[B&GBlood]

I am of the opinion that most of the fans do understand that. Fans also can see clearly when a player is struggling in most

aspects of the game.


But would you have given Mitchell votes that day? I reckon the coaches would have and I bet Mitch got no votes for theNormie either

 

[PT Bar None]

Stratts received 4 AFLCA votes for 2019.

Also - what's the current rules for PCM voting? They changed it recently didn't they? It's now more traditional, 4 voters giving 4,3,2,1 or something? FWIW I used to prefer the old style, but no one solicited my opinion before the change.

 

[eldorado]

So the argument that the coaches rating of Strattons season couldn't possibly be correct is Ty Vickery

Who knew.

It's science, mate...

 

[Gralin]

It's science, mate...

I thought it was more the vibe.

 

[The Chad and I]

No, this is posters who happen to be mods asking people to apply critical thought as to why their Stratton finished 10th in the B&F.

Some people are really struggling with the concept that they don’t know better than the footy department.

Some people are struggling with the concept that supporters might like to value different qualities in a player's performance than the football department.
It's not about knowing better; just preferences.

I have a preference to watch the kind of football where we kick to leading KP forwards instead of running back into space.
The coaches have a different view about how to play.

 

[B&GBlood]

Some people are struggling with the concept that supporters might like to value different qualities in a player's performance than the football department.
It's not about knowing better; just preferences.

I have a preference to watch the kind of football where we kick to leading KP forwards instead of running back into space.
The coaches have a different view about how to play.

No it isn’t preference it is the bloody mindedness that Stratton should be assessed by their “expert” opinion rather than accept the possibility that the coaching staff might actually know what was asked of Stratton as they are the coaches and give him directions. How is that so hard for anyone to accept?

 

[The Chad and I]

No it isn’t preference it is the bloody mindedness that Stratton should be assessed by their “expert” opinion rather than accept the possibility that the coaching staff might actually know what was asked of Stratton as they are the coaches and give him directions. How is that so hard for anyone to accept?

People are entitled to use their own criteria to judge a player.
FWIW...I am, and have always been, an admirer of Stratton's abilities.

 

[B&GBlood]

People are entitled to use their own criteria to judge a player.
FWIW...I am, and have always been, an admirer of Stratton's abilities.

And surely if their assessment differs from the experts then they might consider they are missing something. That is the criteria used by the experts.

 

[play2win]

Just had a look at the b&f votes to try and understand the angst. wtf?
stratton finished 10th. 1 point ahead of gunston, smith and Frawley all on 62pts. I wouldn’t have thought that anyone finishing lower than around 7-8th would have been viewed as having a standout season.
despite not having his best season Stratton averaged more game time than any other hawk player, and was top 5 at the club for intercepts and 1%ers. For a best 22 player outside of the top 5 players (or so), but not one of the 3-5 fringe players you’d expect them to finish somewhere between 7-15 at the b&f.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

And surely if their assessment differs from the experts then they might consider they are missing something. That is the criteria used by the experts.

It’s like self diagnosing an illness and disagreeing with the specialist. Sure, you may be correct, but it’s very very very unlikely.

 

[Yardie]

And surely if their assessment differs from the experts then they might consider they are missing something. That is the criteria used by the experts.

And both are still opinions....

 

[B&GBlood]

And both are still opinions....

Yes but one set of opinions are based on defined criteria. The others are based on assumptions. There in lies the difference in the quality of the opinions.

 

[Davo23]

Just had a look at the b&f votes to try and understand the angst. wtf?
stratton finished 10th. 1 point ahead of gunston, smith and Frawley all on 62pts. I wouldn’t have thought that anyone finishing lower than around 7-8th would have been viewed as having a standout season.
despite not having his best season Stratton averaged more game time than any other hawk player, and was top 5 at the club for intercepts and 1%ers. For a best 22 player outside of the top 5 players (or so), but not one of the 3-5 fringe players you’d expect them to finish somewhere between 7-15 at the b&f.

Yeah, but Ty Vickery.

.

 

[Mojo]

The continuous commentary is weird.

 

[Yardie]

Yes but one set of opinions are based on defined criteria. The others are based on assumptions. There in lies the difference in the quality of the opinions.

Agree 100%, but they are still both opinions. Which does not make either of them infallible.

 

[Gralin]

Agree 100%, but they are still both opinions. Which does not make either of them infallible.

Yes but that doesn't make them equal

 

[Yardie]

Yes but that doesn't make them equal

Again agree 100%, but they are still both opinions. Which does not make either of them infallible.

 

[Davo23]

Again agree 100%, but they are still both opinions. Which does not make either of them infallible.

Ty Vickery is an opinion?

 

[B&GBlood]

Again agree 100%, but they are still both opinions. Which does not make either of them infallible.

But which is more likely reliable? The defined or the assumed.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

========================================

Below this line, everyone needs to grow up on the Stratton thing.

Whether you are right, wrong, 10% off, or have figured it out using obscure ancient Chinese differential calculus using a clay tablet and a stick......

Nobody cares..

Please.... suck fresh... and wait patiently for training to start again..please....

Like the rest of us....

Thanks... And Happy New Year....

 

[B&GBlood]

========================================

Below this line, everyone needs to grow up on the Stratton thing.

Whether you are right, wrong, 10% off, or have figured it out using obscure ancient Chinese differential calculus using a clay tablet and a stick......

Nobody cares..

Please.... suck fresh... and wait patiently for training to start again..please....

Like the rest of us....

Thanks... And Happy New Year....

Ahhh no. This tread was deliberately created for this discussion and no longer impacts the training discussion. If we wish to discuss the finer points of informed debate you are free to be involved or not. Frankly this discussion is about so much more than the assessment of Ben’s footy for 2019.
BTW some of us do care that bullshit isn’t perpetuated by uninformed opinion.

 

[PT Bar None]

I hope Stratts has a great upcoming season

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Yeah, I would’ve, but I’m not pigheaded enough to say I know better than the footy dept and that they were wrong to give him x amount of votes, as you have.

That’s all you’re doing. “I know better than them, because I watched from the stands”.

In the face of the evidence that your opinion that he was “mostly terrible” is wrong, you’re doubling down and claiming it was the people with all the knowledge as to how he performed against his KPIs that got it wrong.

Please show me a single post where I've said that I know better than the coaching staff.

All I've done is express my own opinion, which was formed by watching Stratton struggle on the field for the majority of the season. In my opinion he was mostly terrible compared to what I've seen him produce over the years. And in my opinion the PCM results don't change what I saw him do on the field.

There is no doubling down. I'm just not going to change my opinion based on some criteria we are not privy to.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Going by PCM votes you could throw a blanket over Stratts, Smiff, Gunner, Chip, Wingers and Scully. Chip's a bit stiff to be in this group. The form of the other five was pretty ordinary. Regardless, Stratts finished middle of the pack in a team that never got better than middle of the road.

If those five have a similar season next year we won't be playing finals.

 

[Yardie]

But which is more likely reliable? The defined or the assumed.

Now that is a different question to what was being argued before (fact vs opinion). The coaches should be more reliable in their assessment and their opinion should hold more weight, but they are as human as us and can get it wrong. There has been a number of times on here that posters have questioned Clarko's stubbornness in going down a path when it is obvious he shouldn't.

When it comes to Stratton's performance this year I think how he is being reviewed is in context to his amazing 2018 season. So it appears like he has had a poor year based on last year. Based on the coaches assessment, IMO, he has had an average year that was boosted by being part of one of the best defensive units of the competition (he is doing his job). I also think he took on more of a structural role to allow Impey more freedom as he is a more damaging rebounder.