Player Watch #26: Cale Hooker - Currently 4th in the Coleman

ghostdog

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To what purpose though? Our defence is just as young and lacking in a key pillar. We just need to be patient and go back to the draft for whatever pieces we still need after we’ve given the ones we’ve got a good run in 2021 and see where the holes are.

Any KPF worth their salt will stay at the club they’re at, and if their club is willing to let them go we probably don’t want them anyway with off-field issues or a lack of commitment to playing the game or whatever. And it’d probably cost us several first rounders and a million bucks a year in salary too (Boyd to Bulldogs much?)

What is the point of desperately trading in expensive players given where our list is at? We’re not a KPF from the granny. It will just set us back all over again.

If we want maturity in the forward line, Hurley and Ambrose were supposed to play forward this year and Hurley is still contracted for next year.

And since we’re in Hooker’s thread, I don’t see why he wouldn’t go around again for relative cheap if the club asked, especially if Hurley ends up unable to return to the game then we’d have a spot we already planned to use for a veteran in 2022.
Who said anything about an expensive key forward and trading several first round picks? Not me. I'm interested in an inexpensive mature body who is a more capable key forward than Wright. That's all.
He's good enough as a placeholder though, at the very least. At his age you can argue there's still upside in his game which will come with age + consistent best 22 selection.

We've still got Eyre, Brand, Baldwin, Jones as developing KPP's (might be missing someone). Likely at least one develops into a 200 gamer. I'd agree taking a swipe at someone like a Ben King in 2022 but I don't see the point in going for a sideways trade.

There are others - like I'm not sure about Oscar Allen, I haven't seen him play much so maybe someone else could chime in.
Agreed. Wright sets us in a holding pattern and not much more. Hopefully he can develop further, but he's not looking likely.
Have you seen Baldwin? He's massive for his age. He'll be great when he's fit and on the park.

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Yeah he's huge but my understanding is that because of his injury he's no sure thing. Is this correct?
I actually think we’re on the right track without needing to trade. We can address some of the more glaring holes in our midfield in the next few drafts, and after that we’ll have a fair idea of which of the current crop of KPPs on the list will make it so we can draft accordingly.
So you've since changed your view.
I agree with the method, I'm just don't think we need to be satisfied with Wright as our key forward in the interim while we wait to see if Baldwin will be fit and healthy and Eyre is good enough.
 

The Donners

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Who said anything about an expensive key forward and trading several first round picks? Not me. I'm interested in an inexpensive mature body who is a more capable key forward than Wright. That's all.

Agreed. Wright sets us in a holding pattern and not much more. Hopefully he can develop further, but he's not looking likely.

Yeah he's huge but my understanding is that because of his injury he's no sure thing. Is this correct?

So you've since changed your view.
I agree with the method, I'm just don't think we need to be satisfied with Wright as our key forward in the interim while we wait to see if Baldwin will be fit and healthy and Eyre is good enough.
Wright will be depth if all goes well.

He lacks aggression. He’s in the Langford category and good sides can’t have one let alone two. If Hurley becomes fit he’s likely our interim key forward next to Hooker. It’s a sad state of affairs but it is what it is.
 

nonamehack

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Who said anything about an expensive key forward and trading several first round picks? Not me. I'm interested in an inexpensive mature body who is a more capable key forward than Wright. That's all.

Agreed. Wright sets us in a holding pattern and not much more. Hopefully he can develop further, but he's not looking likely.

Yeah he's huge but my understanding is that because of his injury he's no sure thing. Is this correct?

So you've since changed your view.
I agree with the method, I'm just don't think we need to be satisfied with Wright as our key forward in the interim while we wait to see if Baldwin will be fit and healthy and Eyre is good enough.
But is there any point getting a slightly better key forward than Wright? If we do get one. Then Wright either plays as the 2nd tall or in VFL and that will stunt the production of the player in reserves we are trying to improve by playing number 1 tall.

The guy on ABC radio said it best. Getting rid of Saad daniher and losing McKenna was one of the better things thay could have happened for Bombers. If they stayed it would have been fringe finals again and the stupid focus on x days since last finals win. By bottoming out and playing/developing our younger players we get the benefit of playing them in their correct position without the need to win games rather than hiding them in the team out of position and stunting their growth.

And if we have a better Wright we could be 3 and 2 rather than 1 and 4. For our development I prefer 1 and 4.
 

Lore

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Who said anything about an expensive key forward and trading several first round picks? Not me. I'm interested in an inexpensive mature body who is a more capable key forward than Wright. That's all.
I think your expectations might be a little lofty my friend. A young key forward with an AFL ready body who could be our number 1 is not going to be inexpensive. No club is going around with enough KPFs on their list that they'd be letting one go cheap, not even GWS, unless they've got a lot of off-field problems. Even then I doubt they'd go particularly cheap.

Below is a complete list of all players under 26 years old and over 195cm and 95kg, as according to the AFL. To help sort the forwards from the non-forwards (since the positions listed in Stats Pro are not always accurate), they're sorted by average goals:

Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.07.13.png Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.07.24.png Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.07.32.png

For the sake of completeness, this is what I get if I include the filter option for 186-195cm players at 86-95kg (inevitably some mids are in there, whom are definitely not key forwards, but it also means a 193cm/92kg Jack Riewoldt type isn't excluded). I didn't include all 208 entries, only the ones who average 0.1 goals a game or better... the entries beyond that seem a bit redundant:

Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.15.10.png Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.15.19.png Screen Shot 2021-04-18 at 19.15.31.png
 

Old Campaigner

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I agree with the method, I'm just don't think we need to be satisfied with Wright as our key forward in the interim while we wait to see if Baldwin will be fit and healthy and Eyre is good enough.
We're in a rebuild in case you haven't noticed.

There's going to be a lot of times over the next few years where we're going to have to be satisfied with a sub-optimal player filling a role - be it an aging player past their best, someone like Wright, or a player still developing like Jones.

It'll take time to get the list that will take us to the next sustained period of success. Trying to rush that by trading players in to fill holes is unlikely to speed the process up, and as has already been pointed out any player with the potential to become a star is going to be extremely costly.
 

doug85

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I think many are satisfied with Wright and Baldwin. I'm not. I still think we need to trade for a young key forward whose body is already up to the rigours of the game and who could be our number one. It ain't Peter Wright. A midfielder and a key forward as priorities I think.
I.e Harry McKay?
 

owen87

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Chook has started well this season. Had an impacted pre-season the last few years I think... might be the difference.
He's been running at the Aberfeldie track over pre-season most weeks when I'm down there, he moves like an iceberg even when doing sprints.

Wright will be depth if all goes well.

He lacks aggression. He’s in the Langford category and good sides can’t have one let alone two. If Hurley becomes fit he’s likely our interim key forward next to Hooker. It’s a sad state of affairs but it is what it is.
The problem is that Hooker & Hurley play completely differently. Hurley will lead hard all day, but can't take an overhead mark to save himself (tbf it's not his fault his wrists are f’ed) let alone do it out of a pack. Hooker is your stand and deliver FF gorilla that lets guys like Jones roam more freely.

Wright has the tools to replace the role Hooker is playing as a FF and to be able to play a more mobile CHF role, but needs to add the aggression to his game that Hooker brings.
 

The Donners

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He's been running at the Aberfeldie track over pre-season most weeks when I'm down there, he moves like an iceberg even when doing sprints.



The problem is that Hooker & Hurley play completely differently. Hurley will lead hard all day, but can't take an overhead mark to save himself (tbf it's not his fault his wrists are f’ed) let alone do it out of a pack. Hooker is your stand and deliver FF gorilla that lets guys like Jones roam more freely.

Wright has the tools to replace the role Hooker is playing as a FF and to be able to play a more mobile CHF role, but needs to add the aggression to his game that Hooker brings.
We want a Wright-Hook combination! <boom-tish>

I’ll see myself out...
 

fairbump_playon

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Just as a note - Jones will NEVER be the number 1 key forward. He will at his best be a good 2 or 3 who leads up and burns defenders with running power and leading patterns. But you need a beast who will outpower when it's needed.

Just picture Hawkins. Maybe put a photo of him under your pillow at night. That's the sort of kid we want as a Hooker upgrade.
 

ghostdog

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Just as a note - Jones will NEVER be the number 1 key forward. He will at his best be a good 2 or 3 who leads up and burns defenders with running power and leading patterns. But you need a beast who will outpower when it's needed.

Just picture Hawkins. Maybe put a photo of him under your pillow at night. That's the sort of kid we want as a Hooker upgrade.
Baldwin it is then.*










*Dream scenario may not eventuate
 

Nifft

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Wright will be depth if all goes well.

He lacks aggression. He’s in the Langford category and good sides can’t have one let alone two. If Hurley becomes fit he’s likely our interim key forward next to Hooker. It’s a sad state of affairs but it is what it is.
But I thought Hurley was moved back because he couldn't be a forward. Wasn't it something to do with his wrists?
 

ant555

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But I thought Hurley was moved back because he couldn't be a forward. Wasn't it something to do with his wrists?
Hurley was a very good forward but the scaphoid issues he has had gave him issues marking on the lead. Before he was drafted he played mainly defense but he did get moved forward a few times and kicked a few goals which is why we tried him forward.
 

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