2nd Ashes Test: England v Australia, Lord's July 18-22.

[Howard Littlejohn]

We forgot to say The Lords (Test) Prayer before the game.

Oh, venue in north London
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Test has come
Thy will be done on turf
As it is in pavillion
Give us these days our daily luck
And forgive us our shot selection
As we forgive those who edge against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from wide ones
For thine is the no-ball
The boundary and the DRS
For ever and ever.
Howzat.

 

[Cooldude]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but didn't anyone else hear Aggers relay what Hill said to Erasmus with the Agar dismissal? Paraphrasing it was...

"Nothing on hot spot, clear deflection and noise, enough to overturn, if I was you I'd give that out." (I think that's how it came across)

I thought there was clear deviation off the pitch in that it left the batsman massively, but I didn't see the so called clear deflection from the bat and a clear noise that the third ump seemed to have

It's like they're looking for any tiny little hint to confirm their own desire to give it out

Holding leaves the box, still fuming, and Botham comes in. Immediately kicks off with 'I don't care how we beat them, as long as we do. Why should we feel sorry for Australia, when they were so good for so long?'

Stay classy, England. Stay classy.

That made me very very angry, ah well, I'd lighten up by thinking all that time in that 15 years when Beefy kept saying it's their year and they could "take the bull by the horns" and end up getting trashed. Broken clock right twice the day

 

[Bucking Beads]

Blaming T20 is such a cop out. The simple fact is we are lacking talent and our junior coaching has gone to s**t. Our administration is completely rooted and they are the real issue because they control everything.

 

[Bucking Beads]

The Talent isn't around if we have to wait 6 or 7 years for it. It will be around in 6 or 7 years. Cricket Australia have made some very poor decisions and they continue to make them.

 

[Xsess]

Cricket Australia went for $ over substance when they prioritised T20 over the Shield competition. Of course that has had an effect.

 

[Hawthorn United]

The AFL expansion would have a little impact as well. More people choosing to play footy over cricket as there's more spots up for grabs.

 

[estibador]

who the **** would want a knighthood?

I would. You get to carry around a big sword and give backhanders to any peasants in the street who dare talk back to you. It would be a good life.

 

[Hawthorn United]

I would. You get to carry around a big sword and give backhanders to any peasants in the street who dare talk back to you. It would be a good life.

Would also increase your chances of getting Pippa Middleton.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I disagree entirely. The talent is around. Smith, Kwajawa and Hughes are 100+ test players in the making. But they are still rookies and need time to bed in.

Hell, even beer drinking, bar brawling Warner can be a 100 test player for Australia if he pulls his head in. All of these guys can play.

Check out our bowling reserves. All the talent is there FFS. Just have some patience and stop crying like a silly when Australia loses. Bed these kids in and then the results will come.

I will support Australia, no matter what, and I know that the results will come adn when we taste victory it will be that much sweeter.

I understand what you are saying and agree to an extent. We will need to be patient and persist with the guys we think can be long term test players for us.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The AFL expansion would have a little impact as well. More people choosing to play footy over cricket as there's more spots up for grabs.

TheSydneyMedia likes this

 

[Outshined]

Hasnt hurt India or England has it? It's a cop out.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/653981.html

It isn't a cop out. It's just acknowledging the actions of our administrators.

England and India both have successful domestic T20 competitions, but both countries weren't stupid enough to scythe them right through the middle of the first class season. We're going to be playing England in November/December/January, and in all likelihood will be in desperate need of in form batsmen. Unfortunately for us, the only in form domestic players will likely be playing Big Bash. I'm not blind to the fact that cricket needs money to sustain itself in this country, and the Big Bash is a revenue raiser, but is it really worth jeopardizing the state of Shield cricket in the country? Surely a happy medium can be found (England and India managed it) that places at least some of the emphasis back on playing in the first class system. As the article notes, it also doesn't help that the contract system is skewed towards playing Big Bash.

I'm not saying that the above is the sole reason why we are terrible, I also do think there is talent there like you said earlier, and these things are cyclical to a point. However, it's clear that CA's actions are having a pretty big influence on the national team. For whatever reason, we've moved further and further away from the system that made us a powerful cricket team.

 

[Outshined]

You can argue both ways. You can argue T20 will attract younger players to the game because it opens up cricket as a more lucrative career without having to be one of the best players in Australia. You can argue that T20 has made a cash windfall for Australian cricket.

Im not convinced T20 is causing our downfall. I think the positives of T20 outweigh the negatives.

Potentially yes, it may attract younger players, but I'm not sure attracting people to the game through T20 prepares young batsmen for test cricket and its emphasis on technique, concentration and patience.

There's a place for T20, but I don't think it should be where it currently is. Rework the domestic season to incorporate the Big Bash, rather than simply stopping it to make way for the Big Bash would be my suggestion.

 

[headache1]

Like aus is any better!

Well, it is actually. Much better.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Potentially yes, it may attract younger players, but I'm not sure attracting people to the game through T20 prepares young batsmen for test cricket and its emphasis on technique, concentration and patience.

There's a place for T20, but I don't think it should be where it currently is. Rework the domestic season to incorporate the Big Bash, rather than simply stopping it to make way for the Big Bash would be my suggestion.

I think that is only part of the problem.
India also have not reduced their junior cricket to be T20 focussed. Schools play two day games with unlimited overs, and of course everywhere there is a low traffic street or some open ground kids are playing cricket with whatever they can find.

I'm sure those with first hand knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it CA really push hard for state associations and thriough them local associations to play T20 and other short limited overs at junior level. This results in kids not learning cricket as we did (or in my case as they tried to teach a completely uncoordinated spudwick), but that the only way to play is wild swinging. That has been from before T20 being a big thing though, kids have basically only played limited overs games for a long time. In some comps batsmen are forced to retire to ensure other kids get a turn. There's a place for that in order to maintain a strong player base and kids not as talented giving up and drifting to other sports, but there also needs to be a place for kids to learn about building an innings.
Junior coaching is also often, according to those on the ground, a joke. Relying solely on state development squads and the like has its perils. They might be together two weeks a year, the rest of the time poor attitueds are instilled. And kids outside the scouted talent, usually only certsin capital city competitions, miss out entirely on those squads and being able to learn anything except instant cricket.

Ponting said a few years back that players were reaching Test squads with fundamental flaws that should have been sorted out well before playing the Shield. T20 was around then, but its influence hadn't really had time to filter up.

 

[JimDocker]

20/20 can be helpful but can also have players come through they system not learning how to build innings.

I am listening to the TMS podcast from day 3 of the second test (I was away and normally listen to them each morning) and Aggers just asked Boycs about Root as an opening batsman and asked what he thought of openers that play reverse sweeps. Boycott was fine with it. Root had got in leaving the ball around the off stump and played a genuine openers role, then used his 20/20 skills to manipulate the field. He did acknowledge Root's weaknesses, but expects him to be a fine test opener.

It comes down to the culture of the game and 20/20 dominated the domestic season last year wile first class cricket is still the main game in England.

Not wanting to scare any Aussies, but Boycott was saying that Yorkshire's new opener, a 20 year old called Alex Lees has played 8 matches for 3 centuries including a 275 not out last week has a very bright future ahead of him. Averages 57.

 

[DrEvil]

A few years ago Clarke wanted to knick off early after a test to go see Bingle I believe and Katich grabbed him by the throat. I don't think they like each other...

LoL total respect Katich..

 

[jhong]

""Not wanting to scare any Aussies, but Boycott was saying that Yorkshire's new opener, a 20 year old called Alex Lees has played 8 matches for 3 centuries including a 275 not out last week has a very bright future ahead of him. Averages 57."'
Pretty sure if boycott had his way ,would only be yorkshire players in the test team

 

[darth_timon]

""Not wanting to scare any Aussies, but Boycott was saying that Yorkshire's new opener, a 20 year old called Alex Lees has played 8 matches for 3 centuries including a 275 not out last week has a very bright future ahead of him. Averages 57."'
Pretty sure if boycott had his way ,would only be yorkshire players in the test team

I'm pretty sure a lot of Yorkshire's rivals would love this too!

 

[Hellgood]

I disagree entirely. The talent is around. Smith, Kwajawa and Hughes are 100+ test players in the making. But they are still rookies and need time to bed in.

Hell, even beer drinking, bar brawling Warner can be a 100 test player for Australia if he pulls his head in. All of these guys can play.

Check out our bowling reserves. All the talent is there FFS. Just have some patience and stop crying like a silly when Australia loses. Bed these kids in and then the results will come.

I will support Australia, no matter what, and I know that the results will come adn when we taste victory it will be that much sweeter.

You grossly underestimate how difficult it is to be a 100 test player. Have a look at the names in here who've got over the 100 test mark: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283683.html. How many of them have had four separate stints of test matches due to an inadequate technique that continually is found out?

To play 100 test matches you need to basically be a permanent fixture in the side for more than 10 years. I just cannot see the guys that you've mentioned making it that far.

 

[JimDocker]

""Not wanting to scare any Aussies, but Boycott was saying that Yorkshire's new opener, a 20 year old called Alex Lees has played 8 matches for 3 centuries including a 275 not out last week has a very bright future ahead of him. Averages 57."'
Pretty sure if boycott had his way ,would only be yorkshire players in the test team

Sounds good to me !!!

They have looked better with 3 Yorkshiremen in this side.

 

[Phone]

i didnt read that section of posts too closely but the English T20 comp is taking place right now. It's intertwined with some CC matches, and given the (small) school of thought that bowlers are getting injured because they have to switch formats so often, that's perhaps not an advisable set-up for Australia..........

 

[moto748]

Yeah the BBC made that pretty clear at the time. Even on TV you could hear a noise, but a noise can be lots of things. Didn't see any deflection off the bat, and I don't think anyone thought that looked sufficient to overturn the decision.

As I saw pointed out elsewhere, the Australian side for the first Test in 2005:

JL Langer
ML Hayden
RT Ponting
DR Martyn
MJ Clarke
SM Katich
AC Gilchrist
SK Warne
B Lee
JN Gillespie
GD McGrath

The difference is stark, isn't it? That is a team of champions.

 

[Harmichael]

Phil Hughes will play 100 Tests and score 10,000 runs - providing we only play Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, NZ & Sri Lanka from now on and mainly at home.

 

[Phone]

Yeah the BBC made that pretty clear at the time. Even on TV you could hear a noise, but a noise can be lots of things. Didn't see any deflection off the bat, and I don't think anyone thought that looked sufficient to overturn the decision.

As I saw pointed out elsewhere, the Australian side for the first Test in 2005:

JL Langer
ML Hayden
RT Ponting
DR Martyn
MJ Clarke
SM Katich
AC Gilchrist
SK Warne
B Lee
JN Gillespie
GD McGrath

The difference is stark, isn't it? That is a team of champions.

and those losers still lost!

 

[Harmichael]

So the moral of the story is: Big Bashes cost Ashes.