Prediction 2nd ruck in finals?

Who’s 2nd ruck come finals?


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biaseddustyfan

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best option is just play nank 100% tog and 100% time in the ruck then he can retire after a second flag in 3 years after carrying us through
 

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Dr Awkward

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I don't really mind they are all viable options as long as we DO have a second ruck. Soldo should play at full forward for a half in the VFL to see what he offers there. I like Chol but I don't think the wet suited him

None of this Caddy/Broad in the ruck crap. Especially given Nank coming back from injury
 

RunningBounce

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I like the idea of slotting Balta into the old Griggs position - a bit on the wing, a bit in the ruck when required. Can't see it happening. The club seems pretty determined to teach him to be a fullback.

The trick is that we need to get a contribution from the back-up when they aren't rucking. CCJ can genuinely play forward and I reckon he'll be the one in the firsts next season. Soldo kicks a few in the VFL when they play him forward, but just can't cover enough ground to apply the pressure required at AFL level. Chol, well, his rucking isn't much chop but he can does give us something up forward.

Hardwick keeps talking about "ruck by committee", so I suspect we'll change it depending on the opposition. Soldo and Nank next week, I reckon.

But who'd believe we have 5 players genuinely in the discussion?! Happy days.
 

Dr Tigris

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Nankoldo for me.

Play Soldo #1 tap ruck and Nank as a monster ruck rover and taking their 2nd ruck. Covers what we need better I reckon. Chol isn't a genuine ruck at all, so he's more a forward doing some ruck than a genuine 2nd ruck.

Given time I suspect Chol could be special. But then he's got Balta and CCJ to compete with. Oh it's tough to have this sort of trouble :p
 

Delediodamage

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Great thread. I was thinking of starting a similar one but you beat me to it!

Looking at the sides in the top 4, none of them have a dominant ruck (unless Nic Nat gets back) or a decent second ruck for that matter. I still think our game plan is built largely off pressure ala 2017 and our recent wins have been reminiscent of the back end of 2017. Lots of forward handball and hard running resulting in overlap scoring opportunities.

With that in mind, I’d like to see how we shape up again with just 1 ruck being Nank and using McIntosh in the Grigg role. Yeah McIntosh is not as smart as Grigga but his stronger, has just as a good a tank and is a much better tackler and defender IMO.

Id have a combination of Riewoldt, Caddy and Lynch taking the forward 50 ball ups and through ins so Nank/McIntosh can set up behind the ball. I recon this also creates confusion with oppo defenders when Lynch or Riewoldt take the ruck. It messes with their structures and creates uncertainty.

Just on Caddy, having McIntosh back in the side to play the defensive wing / relief ruck ruck role lets Caddy to go back and play in his best position as a 3rd forward in place of the 2nd ruckman we have been using (Chol). Caddy’s best attributes are his conversion and marking both of which are wasted playing on the wing. What happened to us playing to our collective strengths?

So as for this weekend I’d love to see something like this line up against the Eagles.

Grimes Astbury Broad

Stack Vlastuin Houli

Ellis Cotchin McIntosh

Edwards Lambert Castagna

Caddy Lynch Riewoldt

Nank Martin Prestia

Int: Rioli Graham Ross then one of Bolton/Pickett/Short
 

tiger_tough

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Nankoldo for me.

Play Soldo #1 tap ruck and Nank as a monster ruck rover and taking their 2nd ruck. Covers what we need better I reckon. Chol isn't a genuine ruck at all, so he's more a forward doing some ruck than a genuine 2nd ruck.

Given time I suspect Chol could be special. But then he's got Balta and CCJ to compete with. Oh it's tough to have this sort of trouble :p
100%

Eagles forward line is huge. Kennedy, Darling, Waterman and Allen are all over 190cm. Soldo taking stoppages while Nank sets up a kick behind play ala Gawn taking intercept marks and chopping out for the defenders is the way to go IMO. Plus he can go forward and make one of their three tall defenders (Gov, Barrass, Schofield) more accountable and not let them peel off and intercept like they do so well.

Chol has had 5 effective disposals, 2 marks and 1 goal in 2 weeks. Poor conditions or not, that's not enough.
 

Dr Tigris

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100%

Eagles forward line is huge. Kennedy, Darling, Waterman and Allen are all over 190cm. Soldo taking stoppages while Nank sets up a kick behind play ala Gawn taking intercept marks and chopping out for the defenders is the way to go IMO. Plus he can go forward and make one of their three tall defenders (Gov, Barrass, Schofield) more accountable and not let them peel off and intercept like they do so well.

Chol has had 5 effective disposals, 2 marks and 1 goal in 2 weeks. Poor conditions or not, that's not enough.
Yep. Nank is a weapon, and that is primarily outside of the ruck (tap). He's close to an elite intercept mark, and good forward. Soldo will hold his own in the ruck, and be a useful kick behind play guy. If we can combine the two we've got one of the more powerful ruck groups in the AFL.
 

Thrasher97

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I think Chol has been a bit hard done by with criticism.

Far from ideal conditions the last couple of weeks.

We have seen him clunk them in the dry and a good set shot.

Still think Chol or Balta offer more versatility as a 2nd ruck than Soldo would.

We cant be too one dimensional in such an important position.
Would prefer to play Balta instead of Chol, Chol's had 7 disposals in the last 2 games and his so called effectiveness around the ground isn't showing, if he can't play in the wet then he shouldn't be playing when it's wet.

What i'd like (but probably won't happen): Balta more athletic than Soldo and better than Chol around the ground, can be played in different posisitons, (ruck, forward, back, mid/wing etc).

What will probably happen: Soldo instead of Chol next week to give Nando combo a go, can't see Chol keeping his spot.
Unfortunately there will be some unlucky boys to be dropped in the coming weeks for returning players and players who offer more.
 

Meteoric Rise

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One idea I floated before and I now wonder if the club is thinking of doing something like this....Balta to shadow the opposition second ruck wherever he goes, forward(ie Balta plays in the backline), bench and ruck. That way he doesn't get confused about where to go in the formation and the only worry may be his positioning in contests. If it is wet I would definitely want Balta in the team ahead of any other second ruck choice and Nankervis as the first ruck.

In dry conditions, it is tougher to judge but ultimately I think the Nankervis/Balta wrecking ball combination in the finals is best suited and I would rather us do something a bit radical like that because I still feel we need to come up with some sort of curve ball in finals to go all the way.

Soldo/Nankervis is a big no for me, Soldo is just too slow and will be too easily exploited in finals though I would love to be proven wrong on that.
 

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tora tora tora

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One idea I floated before and I now wonder if the club is thinking of doing something like this....Balta to shadow the opposition second ruck wherever he goes, forward(ie Balta plays in the backline), bench and ruck. That way he doesn't get confused about where to go in the formation and the only worry may be his positioning in contests. If it is wet I would definitely want Balta in the team ahead of any other second ruck choice and Nankervis as the first ruck.

In dry conditions, it is tougher to judge but ultimately I think the Nankervis/Balta wrecking ball combination in the finals is best suited and I would rather us do something a bit radical like that because I still feel we need to come up with some sort of curve ball in finals to go all the way.

Soldo/Nankervis is a big no for me, Soldo is just too slow and will be too easily exploited in finals though I would love to be proven wrong on that.
Hmmm.....watching Brizzy live the other week. McInerny (205) & Martin (199) Rotate through full forward. Both usually on the ground for 70% of the game. You happy with Balta playing KPD on them? Who's place in defence does he take? Broad? Astbury? Grimes? Brisbane only play the 2 tall fwds. I'd rather have Astbury on the resting ruck & Grimes on Hipwood. With Nank drifting back to intercept.. one highlight reel of Balta doesn't get him a senior gig.
McInerny (205) moves exactly like Soldo & Martin (199) exactly like Nank.
 
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Meteoric Rise

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Hmmm.....watching Brizzy live the other week. McInerny (205) & Martin (199) Rotate through full forward. Both usually on the ground for 70% of the game. You happy with Balta playing KPD on them? Who's place in defence does he take? Broad? Astbury? Grimes? Brisbane only play the 2 tall fwds. I'd rather have Astbury on the resting ruck & Grimes on Hipwood. With Nank drifting back to intercept.. one highlight reel of Balta doesn't get him a senior gig.
McInerny (205) moves exactly like Soldo & Martin (199) exactly like Nank.
I think what you are pointing out is my suggestion won't suit all situations and opposition teams, but there may be a chance to use it some time. I really like Balta for the finals, I think he is made for the assignment, and we would do well to explore ways of getting him into the team for these games. Granted though, the answer to the thread question is not obvious.

By the way, I don't mind Balta on these 200cm monsters, he is strong, explosive and has a good leap, he can cope against them in my opinion.
 

tora tora tora

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I think what you are pointing out is my suggestion won't suit all situations and opposition teams, but there may be a chance to use it some time. I really like Balta for the finals, I think he is made for the assignment, and we would do well to explore ways of getting him into the team for these games. Granted though, the answer to the thread question is not obvious.

By the way, I don't mind Balta on these 200cm monsters, he is strong, explosive and has a good leap, he can cope against them in my opinion.
Well maybe Nank Soldo is good for Brizzy. Not other clubs. Cats used Bliz on his own. Giants looked terrible with Mummy and Simpson. Pies one tall with Roughy backup. Eagles back to 1 ruck (Allan back up)
 

tora tora tora

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Dimma thinks Caddy is our secret weapon. Being thrown around position wise to sure him up to come in and play a Grigg type role in finals. Chol will miss out.
If we assume that the bookies favourites win all games leading into the finals. We end up 3rd vs Brisbane in Round 1. I would play Soldo in that game. But drop Soldo for a more mobile player. Kmac (taller than Caddy & more experienced than Balta )would be interesting
 

Grrr

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Soldo for me and Nank why people say this can't work. Nank is more the capable around the ground and even in forward line.Soldo does his best work in centre square we need him against sides with quality rucks.Not getting enough from Chol for me that's the issue.
Ruck tap out's are exaggerated. It is what happens when the ball hits the ground and around the ground that separates the good rucks from the average. Brundy is a good tap out but elite for his size and ground level. Gawn is elite in the tap and sits behind play and marks what comes his way. Nank can do both but not as well as the other two. Soldo can do just one thing, tap, at a reasonable level, and offers little else.
Reckon Sandilands is one of the main reasons Freemantle never got any better, especially as he got older. He game absolutely nothing around the ground or off the ground. Was like playing one short at times. He also stopped Freo from ever developing another ruckman in the 16 years he played for.

Nank looked very composed and strong early on when he was fresh on the weekend. We won the centre clearances easily and he controlled the space around the ball until he got tired. He will get stronger so the need is someone that adds pressure as well as gives him a good breather. Chol can but is going just okay, but the weather has not suited him of late. Balta if given a go I think could really add x-factor. Both offer good pressure.
 

db26

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Ruck tap out's are exaggerated. It is what happens when the ball hits the ground and around the ground that separates the good rucks from the average. Brundy is a good tap out but elite for his size and ground level. Gawn is elite in the tap and sits behind play and marks what comes his way. Nank can do both but not as well as the other two. Soldo can do just one thing, tap, at a reasonable level, and offers little else.
Reckon Sandilands is one of the main reasons Freemantle never got any better, especially as he got older. He game absolutely nothing around the ground or off the ground. Was like playing one short at times. He also stopped Freo from ever developing another ruckman in the 16 years he played for.

Nank looked very composed and strong early on when he was fresh on the weekend. We won the centre clearances easily and he controlled the space around the ball until he got tired. He will get stronger so the need is someone that adds pressure as well as gives him a good breather. Chol can but is going just okay, but the weather has not suited him of late. Balta if given a go I think could really add x-factor. Both offer good pressure.
You cannot ignore the fact tho with Soldo our run and improvement was with him playing, and we looked alot better in the centre square so to our midfield also.Soldo tackles and his pressure is good also and hits the opposition ruckman hard to.
 

Grrr

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You cannot ignore the fact tho with Soldo our run and improvement was with him playing, and we looked alot better in the centre square so to our midfield also.Soldo tackles and his pressure is good also and hits the opposition ruckman hard to.
Actually no I don't. I think that whilst he is a decent tap ruck, we have got a better mix in the midfield now that earlier in the season that looks much more dangerous. Dusty has run into form, Edwards is back in the middle, Prestia is in career best form. Graham is playing well etc.
Soldo did well, and yes he does tackle, but Nank is so much better. We smashed them in the centre clearances last week.

Another factor that was important, perhaps much more so, was the the defensive work of Chol when he was playing forward. He moved really well and closed down space and helped make it difficult for Carlton to clear the forward line. There is no way Soldo could do that and would be a liability up forward.
So for me it is Chol or Balta for that reason almost alone.
 

Ralll

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At this stage I like what Chol brings with Nank...but not in the wet. He's may be like Cox, can only play early and late season when it dries up. Whether or not that's feasible to have seasonal players I'm not too sure..I doubt it.

I thought CCJ looked good in his only hit out, don't see much of the 2's so not sure how he is going there.

And Soldo could work, allowing Nank to play less ruck minutes, and have more energy to push back and help out our undersized backline when he is in the middle.
 

Grrr

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At this stage I like what Chol brings with Nank...but not in the wet. He's may be like Cox, can only play early and late season when it dries up. Whether or not that's feasible to have seasonal players I'm not too sure..I doubt it.

I thought CCJ looked good in his only hit out, don't see much of the 2's so not sure how he is going there.

And Soldo could work, allowing Nank to play less ruck minutes, and have more energy to push back and help out our undersized backline when he is in the middle.
CCJ looks pretty good as he offers well in the air and seems to gather quite a lot of possessions. Next year he will be a serious contender and may even replace Nank down the track.
 

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